Movies: Best Film of the Year: 2017

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I cannot overlook the pedophilic nature of Call Me By Your Name. I am uncomfortable with the high praises for it, to be honest.

Oliver is 24, and Elio is 17. That does not change the fact that Elio is still underage though, and there continues to be a difference in the power dynamics. In real life, people do get arrested for these type of relationships.

I will end my argument here though. If we continue, I feel like one of us will get into trouble.

Haven't seen the film. Your first post got me thinking that 10 y/o kids were involved somehow... And still, I would have said it's no reason to take praise away from a film (unless criminal activities were involved in its making). Funny because I am currently watching Too Old to Die Young (thanks to Savi, coincidence?), and the 30 y/o main character has a 16-17 y/o girlfriend with many sex related scenes (the underage relationship is quite important in the character's construction). I'm half way through it, certainly one of the best tv-series I've seen.

 

[Savi]

Oliver is a graduate about to embark on an academic career. He is pretty much a teacher, so there is definitely a difference in power dynamics.

In Canada, the age of consent is also 16, while in the States it is anywhere between 16 to 18, which depends on the State. No matter how you look at it, the situation is so borderline, that I am deeply uncomfortable with the whole movie.

I understand your thought process, I just don't relate, even if it's borderline. I can't see it that black and white, one side of the border or the other. Like there's an imaginary border you cross when you turn 18.
We're not giving 16/17 year olds enough credit I feel. They're not helpless little creatures. The movie did a good job of showing that as well.

Now, if the age difference gets bigger, yeah then it becomes a bit creepy.

 

[nameless1]

I understand your thought process, I just don't relate, even if it's borderline. I can't see it that black and white, one side of the border or the other. Like there's an imaginary border you cross when you turn 18.
We're not giving 16/17 year olds enough credit I feel. They're not helpless little creatures. The movie did a good job of showing that as well.

Now, if the age difference gets bigger, yeah then it becomes a bit creepy.

North Americans are more prudish. I am okay with that.

 

[nameless1]

Haven't seen the film. Your first post got me thinking that 10 y/o kids were involved somehow... And still, I would have said it's no reason to take praise away from a film (unless criminal activities were involved in its making). Funny because I am currently watching Too Old to Die Young (thanks to Savi, coincidence?), and the 30 y/o main character has a 16-17 y/o girlfriend with many sex related scenes (the underage relationship is quite important in the character's construction). I'm half way through it, certainly one of the best tv-series I've seen.

I feel the movie wants to justify a pedophilic relationship, and that makes me extremely uncomfortable.

 

[NyQuil]

I feel the movie wants to justify a pedophilic relationship, and that makes me extremely uncomfortable.

I think you are stretching the boundaries of pedophilia.

Using your definition, there would be a ton of high school girls in my school who were in pedophilic relationships with guys in college and in the work force.

It’s not like he was pre-pubescent.

 

[nameless1]

I think you are stretching the boundaries of pedophilia.

Using your definition, there would be a ton of high school girls in my school who were in pedophilic relationships with guys in college and in the work force.

It’s not like he was pre-pubescent.

I will apply the same standard to your high school classmates.


The difference is, they are not in any movies.


I am extremely uncomfortable with that movie ever since it was released. I do not think I will change my mind on it.

 

[NyQuil]

I will apply the same standard to your high school classmates.


The difference is, they are not in any movies.


I am extremely uncomfortable with that movie ever since it was released. I do not think I will change my mind on it.

Fair enough!

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I feel the movie wants to justify a pedophilic relationship, and that makes me extremely uncomfortable.

I can't ask you to be comfortable with this particular topic, but you said you were uncomfortable with the film being praised. That to me is not a valid position towards art (it's pretty much the censor's position), and for most people (not saying it's your case), it's an untenable position anyway for being hypocritical (why would justification of violence or murder get a free pass if film narratives and stories had to be held to common moral standards?)

 

[Savi]

I am extremely uncomfortable with that movie ever since it was released. I do not think I will change my mind on it.

But then, let's say this movie takes place one year later, during the next summer. You would have no problem with it because Elio is 18? Or am I oversimplifying it now? Just trying to understand.

Btw @kihei will you do another best of the year topic for 2019 films?

 

[nameless1]

I can't ask you to be comfortable with this particular topic, but you said you were uncomfortable with the film being praised. That to me is not a valid position towards art (it's pretty much the censor's position), and for most people (not saying it's your case), it's an untenable position anyway for being hypocritical (why would justification of violence or murder get a free pass if film narratives and stories had to be held to common moral standards?)

The unequivocal praise is the exact issue. Even if I brush aside my discomfort, the plot is problematic. It is set in 1983, at the height of the AIDS crisis. I have a hard time to believe that everyone in Elio's life would be so open-minded, even if his parents are academics who tend to be liberal. Plus, the only aspect that I like is the cinematography, but it is also not that special. Frankly, the perception towards it from critics is biased.

 

[nameless1]

But then, let's say this movie takes place one year later, during the next summer. You would have no problem with it because Elio is 18? Or am I oversimplifying it now? Just trying to understand.

Btw @kihei will you do another best of the year topic for 2019 films?

I would probably still be uncomfortable, but I likely would not object as much. Perhaps you are right that the age of consent is a rather arbitrary line, but the movie still feels pedophilic to me. There is a grooming aspect to it too, so it is not just a simple coming-of-age tale.

I will leave the arguments here though. You guys rise some good counterpoints, but I do not think it will ever change my discomfort.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

The unequivocal praise is the exact issue. Even if I brush aside my discomfort, the plot is problematic. It is set in 1983, at the height of the AIDS crisis. I have a hard time to believe that everyone in Elio's life would be so open-minded, even if his parents are academics who tend to be liberal. Plus, the only aspect that I like is the cinematography, but it is also not that special. Frankly, the perception towards it from critics is biased.

Well, you didn't exactly convinced me to watch it, so I'll probably never really know.

 

[nameless1]

Well, you didn't exactly convinced me to watch it, so I'll probably never really know.

Honestly, I cannot recommend it.

 

[Puck]

Hmm, The Shape of Water wins Oscars for Best Picture, Best Director, wins at Cannes, gets not one vote here. So far. (not complaining just mentioning it).

 

[Howard Beale]

Hmm, The Shape of Water wins Oscars for Best Picture, Best Director, wins at Cannes, gets not one vote here. So far. (not complaining just mentioning it).

Yeah that surprised me. It didn't crack my top 3, but I thought it was quite good, and thought it would get at least a handful of votes.

I'm also surprised Logan got so many votes, so I may have to check that one out.

 

[Puck]

Yeah that surprised me. It didn't crack my top 3, but I thought it was quite good, and thought it would get at least a handful of votes.

I'm also surprised Logan got so many votes, so I may have to check that one out.

I don't have the stats but I figure the main demographic on an HF message board is male, interested in sports. A romance drama involving a fish man is prolly not high on that demographic's interests list. Most of the no.1 position winners are sci-fi though,

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

I don't have the stats but I figure the main demographic on an HF message board is male, interested in sports. A romance drama involving a fish man is prolly not high on that demographic's interests list. Most of the no.1 position winners are sci-fi though,

Might have played, but I for one really don't care about genre and could appreciate really anything. It just wasn't that good (5/10 for me) - that's one of the rare things where I agree with the HF vote!