Best all-around Defenseman in todays NHL?

[wetcoast]

I've been really impressed with Fox, but I'd like to see a bit more out of him before calling him the best defenseman in the league.

Having said that, I really feel like this is a bit of a dark period for defensemen. The current crop of NHL dmen seem significantly weaker than they've been in a while. No real game breakers, no real franchise guys that will contend for the Hart. Lots of elite two-way players, but there just isn't that star power like before. Even go back about 10 years ago and you had Weber, Karlsson, Doughty, and Keith who all had legitimate arguments for being top 10 players in the league. I'm not too sure there's any defenseman in the league now that would cut the current top 10 best players.

Makar and Hedman have legit chances of being top 10 players in the league and Hedman is doing it right now and Makar was but slight health issues.

 

[Voight]

Right now? It's Fox. He's the only guy here I would say is uber elite both offensively and defensively. Also no-one here knows shit about intangibles unless the player is a well known locker room problem.

Victor Hedman exists......

 

[Xspyrit]

Top-3 is very close. My top-20 would look approximatively like this :

Hedman
Fox
Makar
-------------
Josi
Heiskanen
Ekblad
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
-------------
Carlson
Chabot
Theodore
Slavin
-------------
Pelech
Werenski
Doughty
Letang
Toews
Karlsson
Dahlin
Hughes

 

[Maplebeasts]

Victor Hedman exists......

Right but Fox puts up comparable numbers defensively to Hedman while not having near the support. He's also arguably better offensively, again producing equally as well as Hedman over the last 3 years despite clearly not being in his prime yet and playing for a significantly worse offensive team.

 

[wetcoast]

Top-3 is very close. My top-20 would look approximatively like this :

Hedman
Fox
Makar
-------------
Josi
Heiskanen
Ekblad
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
-------------
Carlson
Chabot
Theodore
Slavin
-------------
Pelech
Werenski
Doughty
Letang
Toews
Karlsson
Dahlin
Hughes

Not a bad top 20 but right now based on this season Hughes and Toews should be up a couple of tiers.

Doughty too based on level of play and impact.

 

[wetcoast]

Right but Fox puts up comparable numbers defensively to Hedman while not having near the support. He's also arguably better offensively, again producing equally as well as Hedman over the last 3 years despite clearly not being in his prime yet and playing for a significantly worse offensive team.

This isn't the be all to end all discussions but tilting the ice here at even strength Hedman looks pretty good.

NHL Stats

Also don't forget that TB is missing their top 2 offensive stars right now as well as totally rebuilding their 3rd line from last year.

 

[Fatass]

Hedman by a country mile. Second is Macavoy. Is there really anyone else who puts up points and plays defence with some bite?

 

[Machinehead]

How is it that Fox has 28 votes and Makar has 10, but Makar beats him easily in head to head polls?

 

[NyQuil]

How is it that Fox has 28 votes and Makar has 10, but Makar beats him easily in head to head polls?

I think the word "all-around" is confusing some people.

If the poll was just "best defenceman" I think you'd see differently.

 

[McDNicks17]

Fox is probably the second best offensive(behind Makar) and defensive(behind Slavin) defenseman on the list, so it's pretty obviously him.

I don't know how the "smaller = must be an offensive defenseman" thing still exists.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Same as it has been for a few years now

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I've been really impressed with Fox, but I'd like to see a bit more out of him before calling him the best defenseman in the league.

Having said that, I really feel like this is a bit of a dark period for defensemen. The current crop of NHL dmen seem significantly weaker than they've been in a while. No real game breakers, no real franchise guys that will contend for the Hart. Lots of elite two-way players, but there just isn't that star power like before. Even go back about 10 years ago and you had Weber, Karlsson, Doughty, and Keith who all had legitimate arguments for being top 10 players in the league. I'm not too sure there's any defenseman in the league now that would cut the current top 10 best players.

With all due respect this is a poor take.

I'm not going to do the whole list, but as an example Quinn Hughes (who isn't even on the list, but should be) has 123 points in 159 games. Now, obviously points aren't everything for a d man by any stretch, but he has really been effective going both ways and is a one man breakout and zone entry machine (this works for Heiskanen, Fox, and Makar as well). Duncan Keith at 22 was in the middle of his first year where he put up 22 points in 81 games. Weber had 50 career points in over 100 games and was a decent powerplay option who was clearly good, but it's not like he was a number 1 D yet.

So maybe slow your roll on passing judgment. I would argue that this is the beginning of a golden age for D.

With Hughes, Makar, Heiskanen, Fox, Chabot, Seider, Drysdale, Sanderson etc etc, there are a lot of potential hall of famers. it's really unusual for D to be precociously good in their early early 20's and we have a lot of them.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fox, not really all that close either IMO.

 

[Perratrooper]

Maybe I don’t watch enough of the Rangers, but I’ve always come away a bit underwhelmed with Fox in terms of being ahead of Hedman or Makar on this list.

 

[57special]

Fox is probably the second best offensive(behind Makar) and defensive(behind Slavin) defenseman on the list

Brodin says hi.

 

[Honest M]

Hedman, and I don't know who i would put second. He will be dominant and do what it takes to get to the playoff and then turn the heat up from there.

 

[mm11]

I'll take the guy who won (2) cups

 

[Regal]

With all due respect this is a poor take.

I'm not going to do the whole list, but as an example Quinn Hughes (who isn't even on the list, but should be) has 123 points in 159 games. Now, obviously points aren't everything for a d man by any stretch, but he has really been effective going both ways and is a one man breakout and zone entry machine (this works for Heiskanen, Fox, and Makar as well). Duncan Keith at 22 was in the middle of his first year where he put up 22 points in 81 games. Weber had 50 career points in over 100 games and was a decent powerplay option who was clearly good, but it's not like he was a number 1 D yet.

So maybe slow your roll on passing judgment. I would argue that this is the beginning of a golden age for D.

With Hughes, Makar, Heiskanen, Fox, Chabot, Seider, Drysdale, Sanderson etc etc, there are a lot of potential hall of famers. it's really unusual for D to be precociously good in their early early 20's and we have a lot of them.

Yea, it was lean for a couple years there, but the next 5-10 years might go down as one of the best eras for defensemen ever. Maybe not the heights of some others but the depth of elite defensemen has the potential to be great

 

[JoVel]

Hedman has been the best at it for so long that I don't think you can dethrone him yet because of a down season where he was injured. And even that said, he was very arguably the best defenseman last season before he got injured as well. I can't remember when it happened but to any advanced stats guys out there - I'm 100% sure you could pinpoint the exact date it happened just by looking at his stats.

2020 playoffs are like barely a year ago, and Hedman's performance in them is right up there with Keith and Karlsson with the best playoff runs a defenseman has had in recent memory.

 

[txpd]

Josi and Carlson just dont get enough respect

 

[kooner91]

Josi and Carlson just dont get enough respect

Shiny new toy syndrome. Josi is one of the most underated players in the entire league, let alone for defensemen. I'm not even the biggest fan of Carlson but he's shown he's one of the best and most consistent defenseman in the league over the last 5 years or so.

 

[Favin]

Josi
Hedman
Makar
McAvoy
Pietrangelo
Fox
Miro
Werenski

Feel like that is the elite tier right now.

 

[aufheben]

Fox. Not sure how you measure intangibles but Fox dominates at both ends.

Right but Fox puts up comparable numbers defensively to Hedman while not having near the support. He's also arguably better offensively, again producing equally as well as Hedman over the last 3 years despite clearly not being in his prime yet and playing for a significantly worse offensive team.

Facts.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Hedman still but the others are gaining every year now. Hedman has been the guy you wanna emulate awhile now.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Facts.

I haven't seen spectacular defence from either Fox or Makar.

Even strength time on ice so far this year averages 19:11 for Fox, 19:01 for Makar, and (since I'm a Leafs fan, 19:10 for Rielly). Very similar.

Makar has been on for 23 of 61 ES goals against, for an average of 37.7%. Fox 21 of 58, for 36.2%, and Rielly 19 of 54, for 35.1%. Again, very similar

How about Adam Pelech, who's supposed to be really good defensively? 18:50 ice time, on for 13 of 53, for 24.5%. That looks a lot better.