Horse Racing: BELMONT dates move to AQUEDUCT; SARATOGA opens July 11

[PredsV82]

Which is silly. Country House was never going to beat Max Sec and we know that because Country House wasn't impeded and still couldn't beat Max Sec. So there's no way CH should win.

And that's not entirely true. The other time an objection has been won in a Derby, a horse got moved up to fourth because the stewards determined that's where he would have finished.

It just feels wrong to have a Derby winner we know couldn't have won the Derby but for an objection to an incident that horse wasn't a participant in

So say War of Will or Toddy do object? Then what? If the answer is you DQ him then, well, then, you DQ him regardless. If you say move him down, well, fine, who do you put in front of him? CH of course.

For the record, I would have been fine had they let the result stand. But once the stewards determined it was a foul, DQ was the only choice.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

They’re also not supposed to DQ unless it cost placings, unless something happened that was very dangerous.

The determining factor in the DQ, in my opinion. No question both horses that were impacted by Maximum Security's move were placed in dangerous positions and luckily avoided disaster.

 

[GKJ]

So, this isn't an uncommon practice to place a horse behind one of that they are deemed to have fouled, so that does make sense. I originally thought I heard that they placed him last which often means something different.

 

[PredsV82]

Again, one was pulled up hard. Horses don't run like they can after being pulled up hard.

Toddy and MaxSec almost tangled legs.

Saying neither had anything in the stretch is shortsighted considering they were severely impacted and had their opportunities to dig in taken away.

Ok but even so if you agree it was an infraction, the only option is to DQ Max Sec. You cant move either War or Toddy up over horses that werent involved at all. It's the crappiest, most frustrating and most random aspect of horse racing..

 

[bluesfan94]

So say War of Will or Toddy do object? Then what? If the answer is you DQ him then, well, then, you DQ him regardless. If you say move him down, well, fine, who do you put in front of him? CH of course.

For the record, I would have been fine had they let the result stand. But once the stewards determined it was a foul, DQ was the only choice.

Then what's the point of objecting if you can't actually win or anything even though you're impeded? Regardless, CH shouldn't be able to object when CH wasn't impeded. That's bullshit. We can definitively say that CH could not beat Max Sec today. Max Sec was clearly the best horse. It's bullshit that CH wins.

 

[bluesfan94]

You cant move either War or Toddy up over horses that werent involved at all.

Then move them up over Max Sec and then DQ Max Sec

 

[PredsV82]

The one good thing about horse racing is that unlike most sports, you have multiple chances for almost immediate redemption. Sure you wont get another shot at the Derby but if you are the best horse and you got screwed just show up two weeks later and win the Preakness and say "screw you". Or the Belmont, or the Breeders Cup.

 

[PayPay]

It certainly looked like Maximum Security was the superior horse the entire race. His jockey stated that the horse got spooked by the noise of the crowd and drifted and he as the jockey attempted to immediately shift the horse back to his lane. I can’t doubt what the jockey said that to have happened and I imagine this has happened before but not in such a big race. This race being what it was made it even a much more difficult call for the stewards. I think they made the call because it was obvious that the horse impeded other horses. The bottom line though in my opinion the best horse in that race was Maximum Security Win or Lose.

 

[PredsV82]

Then move them up over Max Sec and then DQ Max Sec

You cant move them up over any other horse not involved. Would Code of Honor deserve to lose their place/show spot??

 

[PredsV82]

Then what's the point of objecting if you can't actually win or anything even though you're impeded? Regardless, CH shouldn't be able to object when CH wasn't impeded. That's bull****. We can definitively say that CH could not beat Max Sec today. Max Sec was clearly the best horse. It's bull**** that CH wins.

No it's not. That would be like saying waving off a goal for offsides shouldnt matter in hockey if the offside player was not involved in the goal.

 

[PredsV82]

It certainly looked like Maximum Security was the superior horse the entire race. His jockey stated that the horse got spooked by the noise of the crowd and drifted and he as the jockey attempted to immediately shift the horse back to his lane. I can’t doubt what the jockey said that to have happened and I imagine this has happened before but not in such a big race. This race being what it was made it even a much more difficult call for the stewards. I think they made the call because it was obvious that the horse impeded other horses. The bottom line though in my opinion the best horse in that race was Maximum Security Win or Lose.

I agree with this and this bring back up the point of the opportunity for redemption. If Max Sec blows away the Preakness field that will answer everyone's questions.

 

[GKJ]

Prat could argue that his lane was taken from him even though he wasn't bumped, this was a foul that occurred in the turn. I don't know how legitimate that claim would be, but it's not an outrageous one either.

 

[PredsV82]

One thing that kind of got missed in all this..... if you paid attention right after the race concluded the announcer that rode up to talk to the jockey was trying to talk to him and Saez was not the usual jubilant winning jockey that you usually see. I think he knew he was in trouble.

 

[GKJ]

No it's not. That would be like saying waving off a goal for offsides shouldnt matter in hockey if the offside player was not involved in the goal.

I'd liken it to a college program that was forced to vacate a win(s). Officially, USC vacated their 2005 Orange Bowl win. But we all still saw that game, what happened still happened.

If Maximum Security shows up at the Preakness, he'll be the morning line favorite and in my opinion on the day of the race Country House will be an overlay that some people will be too mad at to bet.

 

[Taro Tsujimoto]

Must be the same people in charge of the Situation Room's explanations.

 

[PredsV82]

I'd liken it to a college program that was forced to vacate a win(s). Officially, USC vacated their 2005 Orange Bowl win. But we all still saw that game, what happened still happened.

If Maximum Security shows up at the Preakness, he'll be the morning line favorite and in my opinion on the day of the race Country House will be an overlay that some people will be too mad at to bet.

Oh for sure that's how people will think of it.

 

[GKJ]

 

[PayPay]

I agree with this and this bring back up the point of the opportunity for redemption. If Max Sec blows away the Preakness field that will answer everyone's questions.

I think that is exactly what we will see in the Preakness unless another horse that was not running in the Derby enters.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

May 4, 2019

• Steve Asmussen had seven winners among 32 runners at five tracks. His stable has to be one of the two or three largest in North America.
• Karl Broberg, who just may have the biggest stable in North America, ran horses at six tracks and had 17 starters.
• Chad Brown won four of the seven races in which he entered across three tracks. All four wins were graded stakes. That is a brilliant achievement. In total, he was 12 4-1-0.

Aqueduct (New York):

• Jose Lezcano took advantage of the higher profile jockeys riding elsewhere with a sparkling 8 5-1-1 day. That could be a career high for him and it was reported as his most at any NYRA track.
• Joe Bravo won two on a Belmont card for his second consecutive card. Perhaps that deep funk is now behind him. Having 50+ losses in a row was shockingly uncharacteristic.
• Race 11: Mike Luzzi, who rode two winners, gave one of the best efforts of the day in the Grade 3 $200,000 feature. His 8-to-1 winner was guided adeptly for trainer Linda Rice who won four times and was 6 4-2-0 across two tracks (including one place finish at Laurel). Luzzi won a graded stakes race for the first time since May 2014.

Finger Lakes (New York):

• Race 8: The $2 Pick 5 paid over $36,000.

Monmouth (New Jersey):

• Opening day: The first day of the meet and 21,462 attended.
• Jomar Torres had a natural hat trick to start the meet

Delaware Park (Delaware):

• Opening day: The first day of the meet.
• Race 1: The two longest shots on the board finished 1-2 with Tais Lyapustina winning at 20-to-1. The place horse was sent off at 39-to-1. The field was just six.

Tampa Bay Downs (Florida):

• Unofficial closing day at the meet: Samy Camacho (123) and Antonio Gallardo (101) led the jockeys at the meet. Gerald Bennett's 69 wins led all trainers. The meet unofficially closed today....until the one day for fiscal purposes on June 30.

Gulfstream (Florida):

• Jairo Rendon won the final three races to score a natural hat trick and hit the board with all five starters.
• Jesus Rios also won three times.
• Race 9: A 96-to-1 shot placed.

Churchill Downs (Kentucky):

• Handle: Over $165,000,000 was wagered in the Kentucky Derby which was a huge part of the $250,000,000 bet on the 14-race card. Both figures set records. Over $4 million was wagered in Japan where betting was offered for the first time. Another record that was established was $340 million in the opening week.
• TV ratings: Tied 1992 as the highest since 1990.
• Attendance: Over 150,000.
• Card: 14 races each of which had $100,000 or more purses including seven races of $400,000+.
• Favorites: The favorite lost 12 of 14 races. That led to extraordinary payouts throughout the day.
• Race 14: The $2 Pick 5 was $173,047. The $2 Pick 4 was over $17,000. The $2 Pick 3 paid over $5,500.
• Race 13: The $2 double returned $1,140.
  
• Race 12: The 2019 KENTUCKY DERBY -- Country House (Flavien Prat/Bill Mott) was elevated to victory after Maximum Security (Luis Saez/Jason Servis) was DQ'd. That was the oddest conclusion to a Derby since the controversy of '68. It seems reactions have leaned towards opposing the DQ though that could be due to more people having the second lowest odds in the race as opposed to the eventual winner who had the highest set of odds. Per one report, $8,979,537 was bet to win, place and show on Maximum Security. My lukewarm picks eventually finished second and third. The winner's payout was the second largest in Kentucky Derby history only to Donerail's $184.90 (91-to-1 odds) in 1913.

​

• Race 8: The $2 Pick 5 paid an incredible $137,813.50. The $2 Pick 4 paid over $12,000.
• Race 5: The $2 Pick 5 paid over $580,000. The $2 Pick 4 returned over $67,000.
• Race 1: A nail biter which gave trainer Larry Jones a win with his only starter across North America.
• Steve Asmussen trained four winners among 10 starters.
• Ricardo Santana, Jr., who was later named North American Jockey of the Week, rode three winners as did Irad Ortiz, Jr.
• The Kentucky Oaks-Derby double: $2,581.

Oaklawn (Arkansas):

• Closing day: The usual fun at Oaklawn. High prices early in the meet. Jammed crowds and railbirds galore on weekends. Great track. January 2020 is just around the corner.
• David Cohen won the meet's riding title with 75 wins after three victories today. Ricardo Santana, Jr. had a 73-to-72 win lead entering the final day but he rode at Churchill Downs.
• Karl Broberg trained four winners among five starters and only suffered defeat in the finale.
• Steve Asmussen had 18 starters in the meet's final day. I do not recall the last time I have seen that total for a trainer at any track. His record was 18 2-4-3.
• Race 7: If there was ever a race that defined Calvin Borel's reputation -- 'cept for those three Derby wins -- it was here. He skimmed the rail in the reputation that earned him the moniker Calvin Borail. It was a joy to watch. Borel was 6 2-1-1 today and nearly pulled off a shocker in race 11 when he led entering the stretch on a 33-to-1 shot.
• Race 11: Laughing Fox (Ramon Vazquez/Steve Asmussen) won the penultimate race of the meet and secured a bid in the 2019 Preakness Stakes which was an automatic entry with this victory.

Evangeline (Louisiana):

• Race 9: The $2 Pick 4 paid over $61,000.

Santa Anita (California):

• Race 1: A $2,700 tri to start the day.
• Norberto Arroyo, Jr. was termed "absent" today by Steve Anderson of the DRF. Considering the rider's past, the absence better be something understandable.

Woodbine (Ontario):

• Race 8: Pink Lloyd (Eurico Da Silva/Robert Tiller), a Canadian superstar, improved to 22 17-1-1 with a victory in the Grade 3 $125,000 feature race. He became a million dollar earner and ended a 2-race skid.

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Post-race comments from the connections.

Maximum Security’s connections feel sting of Kentucky Derby disqualification

LOUISVILLE, Ky. – Jockey Luis Saez wiped tears from his eyes as he trudged from the sloppy Churchill Downs main track through the tunnel on the way back to the jockey’s room. The feeling of elation after having finished first in the Kentucky Derby had vanished.

“I can’t believe they did it,” said Saez, referring to the stewards’ decision to disqualify Maximum Security from first and place him 17th in Saturday’s 145th Kentucky Derby. “Man, I don’t think I bothered anybody like that. I don’t know what to tell you.”

Jason Servis, the trainer of Maximum Security, was still in a state of shock.

“It hasn’t hit me yet, but I’m sure it’s going to affect me for a long time,” Servis said.

Gary West, who along with his wife, Mary, own Maximum Security, said he knew 15 minutes into what was, by his count, a 23-minute inquiry, that he was not going to go down in Derby lore – at least the way he hoped.

“I knew after 15 minutes he was going to come down,” Gary West said. “I didn’t know for sure, but I had a pretty good inclination. In a big race like this, I’m hoping it takes something pretty major to take the horse down. I’d be really disappointed in the stewards if it was a minor infraction in a race like this.”

In the 145-year history of the Kentucky Derby, this was the first time the race was decided by a stewards’ decision about an incident that occurred during the race.

Maximum Security, the 9-2 second choice after being favored most of the day, was placed 17th because the stewards determined he had bothered two horses, including Long Range Toddy, who finished 17th. War of Will, the other horse the stewards deemed impacted, finished eighth. He was moved up to seventh.​

 

[Mr.Krinkle]

My son had 2 across the board on Country House, he's happier than a pig in shit today. I don't think I've ever seen him jump as high as he did after they announced the DQ. That said, I think Mott put it best, "If this is a maiden claimer on a weekday this horse is already down, but we'll see what they do here" I hate the argument that, "Oh it's the Derby you can't take a horse down!" Max came out, the jock knew it, everyone knew it, hate to see it happen but why have rules if you aren't going to enforce them?

 

[YEM]

hate to see it happen but why have rules if you aren't going to enforce them?

Seen way worse not called
Like leaving Bayern up in the classic when he took out half the field out of the gate.
Bad call today imo
The Derby was stolen today, shame for the whole sport, total black eye for horse racing

 

[Orr Fourever]

All I know is I lost my shirt today. Hahahaha
I'll try again with the Preakness.

 

[Mr.Krinkle]

It's funny you mention Bayern, many people were saying "oh if that's a Baffert horse it stays up", again it's a doublestandard. I think it was the right call, and all I needed to see was the jock's reaction, you saw it in his face how nervous he was, he knew the horse drifted, knew he bumped and knew he was coming down. And none of it was his fault, he admitted his horse got spooked by the crowd, it sucks he reacted like that but that could have been catastrophic and hats off to him for steadying the horse and leveling out as quickly as he did. to me that's the bigger shame - Luis did everything in his power to steer clear of trouble and couldn't.

What also impressed me was Flavian's response, "Yeah I got bumped but I also had a chance after the fact, he evened out and I had a shot to win the race" That's all well and good but as we all know once you get bumped all bets are off, there's a reason trip handicappers exist. Tough pill to swallow but I don't think it's a black eye for the sport, now what's going on at Santa Anita - that's a black eye

 

[bluesfan94]

No it's not. That would be like saying waving off a goal for offsides shouldnt matter in hockey if the offside player was not involved in the goal.

No, it's not. It's like the league saying that because San Jose got an undeserved 5 minute major to beat Vegas, Colorado moves to the WCF

 

[PredsV82]

No, it's not. It's like the league saying that because San Jose got an undeserved 5 minute major to beat Vegas, Colorado moves to the WCF

As it turns out Max didnt get completely DQd. He got bumped to 17th which is apparently where Toddy finished. So the penalty to Max was based on the horse he impeded most by virtue of the ultimate finish. That leaves CH as the winner, because you cant bump him down or place someone else who was uninvolved ahead of him.