Belfour vs Lundqvist

[amnesiac]

there may be some recency bias here, but Im curious if people feel Lunqvist has maybe surpassed Belfour by now.

Vezina voting career
Belfour: 1,1,2,3,4,4,4,7,7,7
Lundqvist: 1,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,6,6

Belfour (1988-2007)
963GP-484-320-125 906 SV%
playoffs: 88-68 920 SV%
1 Cup

Lundqvist (2005-present)
887GP-459-310-96 918 SV%
playoffs: 61-65 922 SV%


Im giving the ever so slight edge to Lundqvist... Eddie was a little blessed playing in Chicago and Dallas in the 90s. But yes, he was a big part of both.

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[82Ninety42011]

No simple fact Eddie has a Cup and extra Vezina otherwise stats similar but Eddie still ahead. Lundqvist is very good but Eddie had a better career.

 

[Qward]

Belfour: Calder (Rookie of the year), Vezina x2, Jennings x 4, Stanley Cup x1
Lundquist: Vezina x1

 

[amnesiac]

No simple fact Eddie has a Cup and extra Vezina otherwise stats similar but Eddie still ahead. Lundqvist is very good but Eddie had a better career.

He does have the Cup, but I dont blame Lundqvist for playing for the far inferior team all his career. Dallas int he late 90s and early 2000s was as great a team as weve seen in the passed 25 years..... Both were great playoff goalies.

 

[amnesiac]

Belfour: Calder (Rookie of the year), Vezina x2, Jennings x 4, Stanley Cup x1
Lundquist: Vezina x1

really, thats how you see it? like he won the Jennings and Cup on his own. And the Calder makes him better how?

Lundqvist was 4th in Calder voting the year after the lockout, hence, up against twice the competition, behind: Ovie, Crosby, Phaneuf.

 

[Nemesis Prime]

Lundqvist.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

 

[Qward]

I've noticed something with these boards.
Past players are always worse than current players. Current players are worse than prospects.
By HF logics, the Russian goalie that is going to be drafted this year is already than Patrick Roy.

 

[Qward]

really, thats how you see it? like he won the Jennings and Cup on his own. And the Calder makes him better how?

Lundqvist was 4th in Calder voting the year after the lockout, hence, up against twice the competition, behind: Ovie, Crosby, Phaneuf.

Belfour Most shut outs 4 seasons in a row. Lundquist 2 seperate seasons.
Belfour First all-star team twice, hank once.
Belfour best SV% twice, Hank zero

Belfour has more wins, more playoff wins. This shouldnt be a debate.

 

[Leafidelity]

This should be Belfour by a fair margin.

 

[82Ninety42011]

He does have the Cup, but I dont blame Lundqvist for playing for the far inferior team all his career. Dallas int he late 90s and early 2000s was as great a team as weve seen in the passed 25 years..... Both were great playoff goalies.

Like you said both were great playoff goalies but Balfour still has the numbers and the Cup along with extra Vezina how does Lundqvist pass him then? You wanna pick Lundqvist that's fine as they are similar but Balfour still leads most stats in my opinion.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Lundqvist AINEC

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

What made Belfour amazing back in those days were how athletic he was for a goalie. But one thing to keep note on was how he'd always be on good teams.

Lundqvist spent his entire career with the Rangers, but if he was on the Red Wings say in the late 2000's his numbers would've been significantly higher and would be in the argument amongst best goaltenders of all-time.

Went with Lundqvist.

 

[amnesiac]

Like you said both were great playoff goalies but Balfour still has the numbers and the Cup along with extra Vezina how does Lundqvist pass him then? You wanna pick Lundqvist that's fine as they are similar but Balfour still leads most stats in my opinion.

as I mentioned, Eddie played for much better teams, as much as he was part of their success.

 

[82Ninety42011]

as I mentioned, Eddie played for much better teams, as much as he was part of their success.

Yes you did but were all entitled to an opinion on who you rather take. I'm sticking with Eddie myself.

 

[Fataldogg]

Lundqvist.

Let me see Belfour win 2x Vezinas and a Cup on those Ranger teams. Let me see Belfour win a Cup with your best players being a declining Brad f***ing Richard's or a 37 year old St. Louis.

People do not realize how much Lundqvist carried bubble teams routinely deep in the playoffs and top of the standings in the regular season.

Belfour is great but if Lundqvist was drafted by Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh, Washington, St. Louis, Boston, or Nashville and this would not even be a legitimate discussion.

I now expect fans to come in and say those Ranger teams would have been rock solid playoff teams with or without Lundqvist to which I will respond by laughing.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Eddie's the better drinker.

Henrak is the better meme.

 

[Regal]

It's funny seeing AINEC on either side. I think this is a good question. Their numbers and Vezina finishes are close. Belfour has the cup, but also played for a better team, and Lundqvist was great in the playoffs. Belfour was better in his mid to late 30s, but also had some mediocre seasons in his prime that Lundqvist didn't really.

What's interesting though is that Belfour is the 4th best goalie of his era with the top 3 very clearly ahead and Lundqvist is pretty unanimously considered the best of his era. Now obviously Belfour played at the same time as 3 of the best goalies of all time, so Lundqvist would be behind them as well, but it does seem hard to believe that 4 goalies would all be better in a single era. In some ways the fact that Vezina voting is close might be seen as a point in Belfour's favour because he faced better top competition, but it makes you wonder if the position has simply become too hard to stand out in on a year to year basis due to pads and technique leveling the playing field, and random variance of 31 starters who could all get hot for one year. Maybe the fact that Lundqvist managed to be consistently near the top despite a much broader field is actually that much more impressive. It will be interesting to see if we see any consistent standouts in goal in the coming years, because currently there isn't a single starter in the league I feel confident I would be getting elite goaltending next season, and that might be the new norm.

 

[newfy]

Belfour: Calder (Rookie of the year), Vezina x2, Jennings x 4, Stanley Cup x1
Lundquist: Vezina x1

To add to this: Belfour has an extra first team all star, Belfour more wins, Belfour led the league in save percentage twice while Lundqvist's best finish was 4th.

Belfour wasnt drastically better or anything but its clear he has a little edge on Lundqvist

 

[Regal]

To add to this: Belfour has an extra first team all star, Belfour more wins, Belfour led the league in save percentage twice while Lundqvist's best finish was 4th.

Belfour wasnt drastically better or anything but its clear he has a little edge on Lundqvist

I think save percentage placements usually need lots of context. For instance, in Lundqvist's "4th" place finish, 1 and 2, Elliott and Schneider, started only 36 and 28 games respectively, and 3rd place Mike Smith had the same rounded .930, but beat Lundqvist by 0.0005. Meanwhile, in Belfour's 2nd "1st" place finish, both Theodore and Hasek also had .919 rounded save percentages, but Belfour just beat them by .00005, and .00026 respectively. Granted both played shorter schedules like Elliott and Schneider, but it just shows how small some of these differences are that aren't overly relevant. Belfour's 1st SV% win was by a solid margin, but I believe the difference between the haves and have nots in the early 90s was too great to truly compare. I don't believe as many goalies were capable of one-off seasons to compete as they have been since.

This is also only looking at Sv% as a product of the goalie, and not the team in front. Both Chicago and Dallas were good defensive teams, whereas the Rangers, while "defensive", generally gave up a high number of quality chances compared to the league.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

I don't even count the Stanley Cup issue as Henrik has outperformed expectations based on the teams he has and his playoff stats, but Belfour has had the better career.

 

[Voight]

He does have the Cup, but I dont blame Lundqvist for playing for the far inferior team all his career. Dallas int he late 90s and early 2000s was as great a team as weve seen in the passed 25 years..... Both were great playoff goalies.

Dallas couldn't win until Belfour came aboard in the 1997 off season.

1997 - lost in the first round
1998 - Lost WCF in 6 games (Belfours first playoff run with Dallas)
1999 - Stanley Cup
2000 - Lost in the finals
2001 - Lost in the second round

The 1997 & 1998 teams had the same core guys, the difference being they exchanged Moog/Irbes for Belfour and became a cup contender.

really, thats how you see it? like he won the Jennings and Cup on his own. And the Calder makes him better how?

Lundqvist was 4th in Calder voting the year after the lockout, hence, up against twice the competition, behind: Ovie, Crosby, Phaneuf.

Well he did play 74 of a possible 80 games when he won the Jennings FWIW...

Also worth noting he won his two Vezinas against peak Patrick Roy, arguably the GOAT so thats certainly worth something.

 

[Crabapple]

Past trauma leads me to vote for Belfour, although I was quite young when he was in his prime.

 

[Regal]

Dallas couldn't win until Belfour came aboard in the 1997 off season.

1997 - lost in the first round
1998 - Lost WCF in 6 games (Belfours first playoff run with Dallas)
1999 - Stanley Cup
2000 - Lost in the finals
2001 - Lost in the second round

The 1997 & 1998 teams had the same core guys, the difference being they exchanged Moog/Irbes for Belfour and became a cup contender.



Well he did play 74 of a possible 80 games when he won the Jennings FWIW...

Also worth noting he won his two Vezinas against peak Patrick Roy, arguably the GOAT so thats certainly worth something.

The first one he did, but Roy was mediocre in Belfour's 2nd Vezina season

 

[Cup or Bust]

I would probably go with Belfour, but both were really strong starting goalies for a lot of years. It is a close one.