Beginning of the End? (CBA & Lockout Discussion) - Part IX

[Crows*]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.

 

[mossey3535]

same, I dont really understand what it's saying, what does contracts have to do with extra cap space?

It has to do with the NBA. You can trade 'cash' and 'trade exemptions' there. That makes it both easier and harder to trade players because you could take on some of their salary.

Thus, there needs to be a cap limitation on how many traded contract dollars you are taking on.

 

[Crease]

Wonder if the deal grandfathers in the Redden Rule or it'll apply immediately for all teams with existing contracts buried in the AHL.

 

[Ciao]

I dont know how anyone can write this and not say the same for the PA. By all accounts the PA has been sitting on a few proposals for weeks, why not come out and offer a similar(but more favorable for them by a percent or two) offer?

I think it's silly to say NHL's done nothing when the PA hasnt even dropped a percent or changed anything from their original proposal minus adding years.

The NHLPA didn't make a couple of ridiculously antagonistic offers to begin with. The NHL did that.

Thank goodness they've passed through that phase. Time for the NHLPA to respond in kind with a bona fide offer of its own now.

Before this, the only way the PA could have responded in kind to the NHL would have been with a ridiculous offer of its own, which thankfully it refrained from making.

 

[mossey3535]

Here we go again. I'm not letting the players get off scott-free for this. They can shoulder their share of the blame along with the owners.

 

[Iggy77]

I agree. This could've been resolved much sooner, but as of right now I'll take waht I can get.

I agree with what some people have said, nothing gets done until there is actual pressure on both sides to get a deal done. If they started sooner we'd just have had more talks on "non-core economic issues" and more breaks in between.

The NHL is losing money and feeling pressure from sponsors, players are watching their paychecks disappear.

Now that there's a timeline to possibly get a deal and get an 82-game season, both sides suddenly seem much more committed to getting a deal done, funny how that works ?

 

[rdawg1234]

Let's say you have a player who makes 6 M on the cap you want to get rid of at all costs.

With this, you can ''retain'' 3 M of the 6 M on your cap to help close the deal.

So you'd have 3 M of dead cap space. But the player would be gone. The other team takes on only 3 M.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.

Very glad that re-entry waivers would be gone.

ok so essentially you're paying half of the players salary so it's cheaper for the other team.

that's actually very interesting and a solid idea for smaller teams.

 

[madhi19]

Lots more info

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: More on NHL offer: calls for 2012-13 salary cap of $59.9 million but teams can go over up to $70.2 million in Year 1 as part of transition

@DarrenDreger: More on NHL Rev Sharing. Pool will be determined yearly by a Revenue Sharing Committee. The NHLPA will have representation and input.

@TheFourthPeriod: Being told there's plenty of good traction tonight over CBA. Still a lot of work to be done, but this could move relatively quickly

**** yes!!

Crap no buyout period to drop under the cap! Stuck with freaking Gomez for two more years. Thanks a lot NHL!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

The NHLPA didn't make a couple of ridiculously antagonistic offers to begin with. The NHL did that.

Thank goodness they've passed through that phase. Time for the NHLPA to respond in kind with a bona fide offer of its own now.

Before this, the only way the PA could have responded in kind to the NHL would have been with a ridiculous offer of its own, which thankfully it refrained from making.

You must have missed the part where the PA offered themselves set raises!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie/status/258413548974256128

One of most interesting aspects of NHL proposal is aimed at punishing clubs more than players, with regard to existing back-diving deals.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

It must be embarassing for the NHL to admit that it's been posturing and bullying with it's low-ball offers, and that it would eventually have "split the difference" with the union even in the absence of a counter-offer from the NHLPA.

That said, I'm hopeful that the NHL is now in the right head-space and that meaningful CBA negotiations can now begin.

Take this offer as the NHL's real starting point, and its earlier offers as a couple of bluffs or spoofs.

No wonder the NHLPA, or anyone else for that matter, has such trouble taking the NHL seriously.

Agreed.
Bush league Bettman and his old crank owners really ...

You can understand why there is a salary cap. These people can't help themselves. Their idiocy is unparalleled.

They need some sort of lockout cap to protect them from doing more harm... No lockouts until 2040.

 

[Crows*]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: One of most interesting aspects of NHL proposal is aimed at punishing clubs more than players, with regard to existing back-diving deals.

 

[Ari91]

Let's say you have a player who makes 6 M on the cap you want to get rid of at all costs.

With this, you can ''retain'' 3 M of the 6 M on your cap to help close the deal.

So you'd have 3 M of dead cap space. But the player would be gone. The other team takes on only 3 M.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.

Very glad that re-entry waivers would be gone.

Got it. Thanks for the explanation. I've heard of deals like this being negotiated in the MLB.

I'm guessing that buried players in the minors counting against the cap would be effective with the new CBA and not retroactive.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

The NHLPA didn't make a couple of ridiculously antagonistic offers to begin with. The NHL did that.

Thank goodness they've passed through that phase. Time for the NHLPA to respond in kind with a bona fide offer of its own now.

Before this, the only way the PA could have responded in kind to the NHL would have been with a ridiculous offer of its own, which thankfully it refrained from making.

I wonder what changed. Why suddenly shift your tactic?

 

[rdawg1234]

Agreed.
Bush league Bettman and his old crank owners really ...

You can understand why there is a salary cap. These people can't help themselves. Their idiocy is unparalleled.

They need some sort of lockout cap to protect them from doing more harm... No lockouts until 2040.

and yet their last lockout has made the league healthier than ever before but yea they have no idea what they're doing.

Not all owners are idiots, some are and clearly they're trying to fix the problem right now(albeit both, yes BOTH sides took way to long to make a decent proposal.)

point is we now have a chance at a full season and I 100% blame the players if we cant get there, there are numerous fair and smart things in this proposal, some even coming from the players side. It's fair for them to want to tweak them, but I think it's ridiculous if they cant agree to most things by the end of next week.

 

[Ciao]

You must have missed the part where the PA offered themselves set raises!

I only saw them make one offer and it gave up concessions from the previous CBA.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

Crap no buyout period to drop under the cap! Stuck with freaking Gomez for two more years. Thanks a lot NHL!

Yeah, thanks a lot NHL for not bailing us out because our previous management team made the worst trade in the last 20 years. It is what it is and we have to accept it as Habs fans, at least we can still go up to 70 M for this year. Hell, I wouldn't be opposed at all to still sending Gomez far away to Europe or the minors even with the 7.3 M counting in full.

 

[Crescent Street]

Not all owners are idiots, some are and clearly they're trying to fix the problem right now(albeit both, yes BOTH sides took way to long to make a decent proposal.)

Which owners would you say are at the top of the ladder?

 

[Pyromaniac3]

My favourite part about the new proposal:

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

 

[Crows*]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

and yet their last lockout has made the league healthier than ever before but yea they have no idea what they're doing.

So healthy that 18 teams were losing money despite massive revenue growth.

Not all owners are idiots, some are and clearly they're trying to fix the problem right now(albeit both, yes BOTH sides took way to long to make a decent proposal.)

If they were clearly trying to fix the problem, the owners would spend more time negotiating with each other about revenue sharing.

point is we now have a chance at a full season and I 100% blame the players if we cant get there, there are numerous fair and smart things in this proposal, some even coming from the players side. It's fair for them to want to tweak them, but I think it's ridiculous if they cant agree to most things by the end of next week.

You 100 percent blamed the players to begin with, right.
A lot of people seem really anxious to start blaming the players when they barely understand what was offered.

 

[rdawg1234]

I only saw them make one offer and it gave up concessions from the previous CBA.

Not really, I dont call asking for smaller raises much of a concession.

The PA's proposal was crap and looked like the beginnings of an attack on the Salary cap. Luckily they never went that route.

regardless, it's their turn to respond, will they respond with a higher %? will they continue to delink most of the %? things that need to be answered.

 

[Marc the Habs Fan]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

Wow, a lot of teams won't like that one.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

@TSNBobMcKenzie: Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

Wow.
I wonder how that went over with Illitch and the Hawks and Devils, etc.

 

[Ciao]

and yet their last lockout has made the league healthier than ever before . . .

???

Healthier than ever before?

Q: If the NHL is healthier than ever before, then why did it lock the players out?

A: Because it really is healthier than ever before (just as you say), and they see the opportunity to make even higher profits.

That said, this does appear to be a genuine offer that hopefully will lead to a new CBA soon.

Kudos to the NHL for sucking it up and finally making an offer that forms the basis of negotiations.