BCHL votes to separate from Hockey Canada

[rsteen]

And that will make spots available to older players from BC to those other leagues too who might have ncaa potential as a 18 or 19 year old.

Older players from BC won't be available if BC Hockey starts another Junior A league from their Junior B teams as mentioned upthread.

 

[joestevens29]

Older players from BC won't be available if BC Hockey starts another Junior A league from their Junior B teams as mentioned upthread.

How competitive is this Junior B league converting to a Junior A league going to be? Seems like most guys will still want to go to the BCHL if they can.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

 

[rsteen]

How competitive is this Junior B league converting to a Junior A league going to be? Seems like most guys will still want to go to the BCHL if they can.

They'll have more competition for the BCHL as it's now open to every Junior A player in Canada. But the other provincial leagues won't take BC players if a HC-sanctioned Junior A league exists in BC, because of the no poaching thing which is why the BCHL is leaving in the first place.

 

[Bjindaho]

They are also ineligible for any IIHF sanctioned tournaments, because BCHL won't be affiliated with any IIHF member nations.

 

[MeHateHe]

This thread is a succinct summary of the BCHL's rationale.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

This thread is a succinct summary of the BCHL's rationale.

Junior Hockey has been a giant cesspool, and I think a big reason is kids moving away at young ages.

This is the exact opposite direction to go for the health of hockey as a sport IMO.

 

[oldunclehue]

The other junior A teams would have to follow suit, no?

Right now too 16-17 year olds have to play in their home province for the team that holds their CJHL rights. Once 18 they can sign in other leagues but for whoever has their rights in that league.

BCHLwill be able to recruit any kid it wants now, and draw them away

 

[MeHateHe]

A couple of interesting tidbits in this. I think the key piece is that the BCHL will set a roster limit of 25. With no quality Junior B leagues to affiliate with, it's conceivable that could lead to lineup problems later in the season. The increased roster size could conceivable deter some players from signing, knowing that they might not get game time for weeks at a time.

On the other hand, the clarification around what's considered a BC player is an important consideration. Under the old rules, Steve Yzerman (born in Cranbook) would have been a BC player, despite having no connection to hockey in BC.

What we know right now about the BCHL’s roster rules – BCHLNetwork

bchlnetwork.ca

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

A couple of interesting tidbits in this. I think the key piece is that the BCHL will set a roster limit of 25. With no quality Junior B leagues to affiliate with, it's conceivable that could lead to lineup problems later in the season. The increased roster size could conceivable deter some players from signing, knowing that they might not get game time for weeks at a time.

On the other hand, the clarification around what's considered a BC player is an important consideration. Under the old rules, Steve Yzerman (born in Cranbook) would have been a BC player, despite having no connection to hockey in BC.

What we know right now about the BCHL’s roster rules – BCHLNetwork

bchlnetwork.ca

I guess the idea with the 25 roater limit is that you can play the young players, while still keeping older players?

Bur older players will just leave then, right?

I really think this is not worth the trouble for the BCHL, unless there's a hidden benefit beyond - "we can recruit a couple dozen 17-year-olds per year."

Or is the idea to stick the younger players on a roster and not play them?

 

[MeHateHe]

I guess the idea with the 25 roater limit is that you can play the young players, while still keeping older players?

Bur older players will just leave then, right?

I really think this is not worth the trouble for the BCHL, unless there's a hidden benefit beyond - "we can recruit a couple dozen 17-year-olds per year."

Or is the idea to stick the younger players on a roster and not play them?

The league feels they're stuck in the middle with limited options. They see themselves as a cut above the rest of the Junior A universe in Canada but they're not on the same level as major junior. Meanwhile, their primary competitor for attracting top-end talent is the USHL, which can operate with a lot fewer geographical constraints while still offering players the possibility of NCAA eligibility.

The truth is it's only a handful of teams in the BCHL that are really any better than the bulk of Junior A in Canada. Penticton built themselves a super team this year - we were wondering if they were going to lose a single game in the regular season - and that disparity is only going to get worse. But I think a lot of clubs think that freed from the limitations on out-of-province and out-of-country players, they will be able to climb up to that level. We all get bent out of shape at restrictions on player movement in the NHL - as a union guy, I'm sympathetic to that - but it's those restrictions that keep the NHL from being like European soccer where it's Bayern and everyone else or five or six Premier League clubs and everyone else is just happy to be on the same field as Erling Haaland.

So yeah, Hockey Canada is acting in the interest of everyone else in trying to throw an anchor on the BCHL plan, which would certainly benefit a few top end players who would benefit from another high-end league. That benefit would come at the cost of a bunch of teams in BC and pretty much every other league in Canada. Again, I get it: the BCHL thinks the USHL is breathing down their neck. I just don't think the cure is better than the disease.

 

[MeHateHe]

A little more detail of the league's roster rules.

BCHL announces roster rules and important dates for 2023-24

bchl.ca

A couple of interesting pieces from this document.

• A maximum of two former CHL players of any age are permitted on a roster. Ex-CHL players rostered to BCHL rosters as of Jan. 10. 2023 are to be grandfathered in.
• A maximum of eight affiliate registrations are permitted per team. Affiliates may come from any independent minor/youth/high school league across North America.
  • BC Hockey has dictated that CSSHL, BCEHL and Junior B can no longer affiliate with BCHL as an independent league

 

[MeHateHe]

Latest: the KIJHL has applied to BC Hockey to be reclassified as Junior A. KIJHL applying for Junior A status for 2023-24 season

It's interesting for sure. If you have no Junior A and the best you have is a Junior B league, then isn't your Junior B league really a Junior A league? Of course, there are two other Junior B leagues (plus part of an Alberta Junior B league) also operating in BC that would be wondering 'what about us?' The league would argue that it encompasses a much bigger geographic footprint in BC than the other two - the PJHL is just a portion of the lower mainland and the VIJHL is just an island league.

If approved - I really doubt it, but who knows? - the KIJHL would take on the standards of a Junior A league. There, are, I believe, differences in roster requirements and allowances.

What I think should happen is BC Hockey should say 'not enough time" for this to be implemented before September, and then give the three Junior B leagues a suggestion that they work together to put in a joint proposal for a new Junior A league for 2024-25. There are 8-10 KIJHL franchises which probably have the wherewithal to put on credible Junior A operations (Nelson, Fernie, Kimberley, Castlegar, Osoyoos, Revelstoke, Sicamous, Kelowna, Kamloops, 100 Mile House) and then a couple in the lower mainland (Mission, Richmond, Port Moody, Delta maybe) and two or three from the island (Comox, Campbell River and Peninsula) which gives you a fairly broad-based provincial league, while still leaving the three Junior B leagues with enough clubs to have their own separate viable leagues. If there any BCHL teams that find that the outlaw route isn't for them, they then have a landing place in a league that has teams already in their region. If, for example, Victoria or Alberni Valley decided they were no longer interested in the 'independent' BCHL, and their only Junior A option was a league where their closest rival was in the south Okanagan, that's not much of an option.

 

[Elvis Rambo]

Will this affect for example player transfers trades too? For example I watch an AJHL team and they made trades a few times last season with BCHL teams. That I am assuming is done too? Also would or could a player get the same views from other teams in other leagues for playing in an independent league like the BCHL? I know the BCHL is a great league and probably the best Junior A loop in Canada. It tends to drop a little bit the more east you go.
The KIJHL might be tough to pass as Junior A, the league went from a solid junior B league of 10 teams to balloon to 20 something teams with kids from lord knows where paying to play with full cages in mostly empty barns (minus Fernie, Kimberly, and maybe a few others).

Should be interesting to see as those BCHL franchises have strong fan holds in most of those communities.

 

[MeHateHe]

Will this affect for example player transfers trades too? For example I watch an AJHL team and they made trades a few times last season with BCHL teams. That I am assuming is done too? Also would or could a player get the same views from other teams in other leagues for playing in an independent league like the BCHL? I know the BCHL is a great league and probably the best Junior A loop in Canada. It tends to drop a little bit the more east you go.
The KIJHL might be tough to pass as Junior A, the league went from a solid junior B league of 10 teams to balloon to 20 something teams with kids from lord knows where paying to play with full cages in mostly empty barns (minus Fernie, Kimberly, and maybe a few others).

Should be interesting to see as those BCHL franchises have strong fan holds in most of those communities.

Yes, there tends to be more player movement at Junior A than at Junior B, although Junior B playing rights are commodities that are swapped among teams and among leagues.

Transactions

www.kijhl.ca

And yes, this would mean that KIJHL teams could acquire Junior A playing rights from other Junior A leagues. It's another reason that rushing this proposal through seems like a bad idea: you've made the KIJHL players Junior A players with the stroke of a pen, and while that might give them a recruiting advantage over the other two Junior B leagues in BC, the truth is the difference in quality between the leagues isn't great right now.

You're right that the drop in quality from the BCHL to the KIJHL will be noticeable, and I wonder if this were to come to pass if we would see what is called Junior A in BC would look a little like what is happening in Ontario, where the problem has been too many teams approved at a Junior A level, so that most Junior A teams are pretty weak. I would suspect that if the KIJHL champion played off against the AJHL champion for the Doyle Cup, it would be four not-very-close games.

 

[Elvis Rambo]

You're right they should wait on that. That's like playing dress up make believe. If they did that and players flowed over from other leagues ( I am pretty sure a kid would rather live and play hockey in Fernie or Nelson compared to Waywaycecapoo or in the SIJHL for example) But even then you would have some very unbalanced teams. Also what would happen to the Spokane Braves? I think they were coming back this season. Sounds like a mess for who ever is trying to figure it out.

 

[hockeykid87]

I agree with what someone said above, the KIJHL, VIJHL and PJHL should band together to form a new junior A league. Some teams will be lost, but it is what it is. That's the best way to go about doing it if they want to become the new BCHL.

 

[MeHateHe]

Looks like the three leagues are actually working together on a proposal. Perhaps the KIJHL proposal was the starting point.

BC Junior B hockey leagues explore possibility of Junior A reclassification

VIJHL, PJHL and KIJHL in discussion with BC Hockey

www.nanaimobulletin.com

They can't all be Junior A - that would be 47 teams, I think - so it'll be interesting how this shakes out.

 

[rsteen]

Looks like the three leagues are actually working together on a proposal. Perhaps the KIJHL proposal was the starting point.

BC Junior B hockey leagues explore possibility of Junior A reclassification

VIJHL, PJHL and KIJHL in discussion with BC Hockey

www.nanaimobulletin.com

They can't all be Junior A - that would be 47 teams, I think - so it'll be interesting how this shakes out.

I would assume some subset of the teams form a Junior A league and the remaining ones reorganize into one or two Junior B leagues.

 

[MeHateHe]

I would assume some subset of the teams form a Junior A league and the remaining ones reorganize into one or two Junior B leagues.

Geography and economics means there will likely still be three leagues. As it stands now, there are 20 teams in the KIJHL (assuming Spokane returns), 14 in the PJHL and 11 on the island. Each league could shed several and still be viable on their own.

The VIJHL would obviously be most vulnerable, but at the same time, most are not good candidates to move up to Junior A; four are in greater Victoria, so they'd be competing directly with the WHL Royals and BCHL Grizzlies, one each in Nanaimo and Port Alberni (again, BCHL), and a couple are in quite small communities (Kerry Park and Lake Cowichan). So you're left maybe with Comox, Campbell River, Oceanside (Parksville) and possibly Peninsula (which is far enough away from the Grizzlies that they might be able to make a go of it.

On the mainland, again, avoiding places where there's direct competition with the well-established BCHL teams, you've got options like Mission, Aldergrove, Abbotsford, Richmond, Delta and Port Moody.

And then in the interior, you have to look at the larger of the centres, so Nelson, Kimberley, Fernie, Castlegar, maybe Kamloops, Sicamous and possibly 100 Mile House. (It opens up the door to Quesnel again, but that just adds even more travel.)

This has the potential, I think, to reshape junior hockey across North America. I'm sure BC Hockey is looking at this as a way to offer a landing spot should some of the smaller BCHL teams decide that independence isn't what it's cracked up to be. And if enough of them do so, and suddenly the BCHL is no longer a 17-team juggernaut but a dispersed 10-team league, how long before the BCHL becomes the BC division of the USHL?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Junior A update in BC:

Vancouver Island Junior Hockey League applying to go Junior A

Other two Junior B leagues in B.C. hope to follow

www.timescolonist.com

 

[Al48]

Junior A update in BC:

Vancouver Island Junior Hockey League applying to go Junior A

Other two Junior B leagues in B.C. hope to follow

www.timescolonist.com

I heard final decision will come toward end of the month. It doesn’t really have much impact for the coming season with the exception of playing for the Centennial Cup,so they may as well just pass it as a symbolic move. I think this is important, because, as stated in the article, there will be a massive hole for a number of BC kids with the BCHL being able to recruit from anywhere. It’s a lot of teams to throw into the pot, so it will be interesting to see how it evolves over time.

 

[MeHateHe]

I heard final decision will come toward end of the month. It doesn’t really have much impact for the coming season with the exception of playing for the Centennial Cup,so they may as well just pass it as a symbolic move. I think this is important, because, as stated in the article, there will be a massive hole for a number of BC kids with the BCHL being able to recruit from anywhere. It’s a lot of teams to throw into the pot, so it will be interesting to see how it evolves over time.

And boom goes the dynamite.

BC HOCKEY ANNOUNCES NEW JUNIOR A PATHWAY | BC Hockey

www.bchockey.net

Briefly, BC Hockey has reclassified all three leagues - 45 teams - as Junior A Tier 2 for the 2023-2024 season, and they talk about an evaluation period, after which I would guess some would be reclassified as Junior A Tier 1. These are not terms usually used in Hockey Canada anymore. (Junior A used to be Tier 2, Major Junior used to be Tier 1, but those terms are way, way out of date.)

There is a three-year pathway after which the Tier 1 teams would be considered for CJHL status and eligibility for the Centennial Cup.

The future goal for those teams achieving Junior A Tier 1 status will be to eventually seek membership with the CJHL. Such membership would open the door to competition for the Centennial Cup, Canada’s Junior A National Championship, and eligibility for players and bench staff for Hockey Canada’s and the CJHL’s World Junior A Challenge.

Unsurprisingly, the BC Hockey news release includes a quote from the WHL commissioner. The WHL is worried about losing players to the BCHL - moreso under this model - and anything that pushes the BCHL further to the margins is beneficial to the WHL.

Meanwhile, the BCHL is grousing over BC Hockey's decision to tell its referees they can't officiate in the BCHL anymore.

BCHL feels Hockey Canada and B.C. Hockey are making a bad call on referees and their league

The BCHL went independent this summer and B.C. Hockey is holding firm on not allowing refs to jump between sanctioned and unsanctioned leagues

theprovince.com

The BCHL named their officials last week. I did a quick skim and it looks like most of the ones who used to work both in the BCHL and WHL are not on their list anymore, which is a huge loss in terms of quality of officials.

 

[Al48]

https://twitter.com/vijhlofficial/status/1683855350733348864?s=46

And boom goes the dynamite.

BC HOCKEY ANNOUNCES NEW JUNIOR A PATHWAY | BC Hockey

www.bchockey.net

Briefly, BC Hockey has reclassified all three leagues - 45 teams - as Junior A Tier 2 for the 2023-2024 season, and they talk about an evaluation period, after which I would guess some would be reclassified as Junior A Tier 1. These are not terms usually used in Hockey Canada anymore. (Junior A used to be Tier 2, Major Junior used to be Tier 1, but those terms are way, way out of date.)

There is a three-year pathway after which the Tier 1 teams would be considered for CJHL status and eligibility for the Centennial Cup.



Unsurprisingly, the BC Hockey news release includes a quote from the WHL commissioner. The WHL is worried about losing players to the BCHL - moreso under this model - and anything that pushes the BCHL further to the margins is beneficial to the WHL.

Meanwhile, the BCHL is grousing over BC Hockey's decision to tell its referees they can't officiate in the BCHL anymore.

BCHL feels Hockey Canada and B.C. Hockey are making a bad call on referees and their league

The BCHL went independent this summer and B.C. Hockey is holding firm on not allowing refs to jump between sanctioned and unsanctioned leagues

theprovince.com

The BCHL named their officials last week. I did a quick skim and it looks like most of the ones who used to work both in the BCHL and WHL are not on their list anymore, which is a huge loss in terms of quality of officials.

I keep reading in all the announcements that the leagues will immediately commit to an “enhanced player experience and grassroots engagement”. What does this mean? Anyone explain?

 

[MeHateHe]

I keep reading in all the announcements that the leagues will immediately commit to an “enhanced player experience and grassroots engagement”. What does this mean? Anyone explain?

As I have not yet earned my certification in Advanced Corporate Buzzwords, I cannot fully dress that particular word salad.

It looks like Hockey BC is putting expectations that the leagues will fill their rosters primarily with BC (and Yukon) products. From the KIJHL's page:

As part of its efforts to provide more opportunity for homegrown players, the KIJHL has committed to a three-year plan that will increase B.C. and Yukon player representation from 44% in the 2022/23 season to 52% by 2025/26.

I'm a little surprised that their import percentage was that high, to be honest. Having followed the league for decades, I was aware that a lot of Alberta (especially) players wound up there, but I didn't think it was more than half.