Post-Game Talk: Bart on the ice for the final minute..... Avs win in the final minute

[Hali33]

The D has been solid, I sure didn`t like the coverage the forwards, most specifically Bergy neglected which would have allowed Bart to take the man low yesterday rather than give the guy in the slot an uncontested shot

Ooof I have to disagree there.

The D has been the lesser of two evils IMO. I thought it was a bit better in front of Sveddy but they seemed to be giving away a ton of excellent chances right in front of Rask. Chances that any offensively strong team watching the tape are going to be waiting for and cashing in. Seem to be spending a ton of time in our own end, can't clear. Not covering prime scoring areas.

To be fair, it hasn't been helped at all by the amount of turnovers and 2 on 1s, 3 on 1s that our forwards have been given up. I haven't seen our forwards collectively play this horrible on both ends of the ice in a while.

 

[pgm16]

Which Friday are we talking about? According to the Bruins website they've only got two games left before Friday this week. I can't see how they could lose three games out of two.

Should have read Sunday morning...too much turkey yesterday !!...

 

[bb_fan]

I hate Bart as much as anyone...but there's so many people that are playing like crap right now, seems kinda silly to pick one.

why does anyone hate bart?

he's a bottom pairing defensemen so far with potential for a bit more, probably playing more than he should.

how about we all Hate On Hamilton? Golden boy future Norris winning #1 d-man who has also been playing like a bottom pairing d-man so far this season?

 

[bb_fan]

Sure you are. I absolutely hate when people say this.

Bergeron made a mistake. A rare mistake, but everyone makes them...even him. His tend to get pointed out and forgiven rather quickly because they are rare, while others get piled on when they do something wrong because they aren't as consistent.

Patrice Bergeron is our best all around player. When he ****s up, it's more easily forgiven because of that, and because he realistically makes what amounts to a handful of costly mistakes throughout the course of a season.

He's not above criticism, he's forgiven more easily...and rightfully so, IMO. There's a huge difference.

While I agree that Bergeron has earned a bit of trust and respect and the benefit of the doubt in that regard, why is a player with much lower expectations still held to a higher than standard then?

bart so far is a bottom paring guy, I don't expect him to be as consistent as Bergeron.

heres a question though..... whats Bart doing on the ice with less a 30 seconds left in a 1-1 tie game in the third?

 

[Kate08]

While I agree that Bergeron has earned a bit of trust and respect and the benefit of the doubt in that regard, why is a player with much lower expectations still held to a higher than standard then?

bart so far is a bottom paring guy, I don't expect him to be as consistent as Bergeron.

heres a question though..... whats Bart doing on the ice with less a 30 seconds left in a 1-1 tie game in the third?

I supervise 2 people at work. One is a rock star while the other is riding the struggle bus. Both of them made glaring mistakes over the past few days. The rock star understood her error, and the conversation ended on a "let's talk about how to make sure this doesn't happen again." The other guy is going to be reprimanded more harshly because the errors are a pattern. And, keep in mind, I gave this employee a pat on the back for remembering to punch in and out correctly every day last week.

I don't think Bart is held to a higher standard. I think his errors are examined more closely because of the quantity of them. He needs to be passable, not a rock star.

Completely agree with your last point. Claude needs to put him in a position to succeed, and that's not it.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Bart had a few Brain farts but he plays physical, moves the puck and is a decent passer. It was also his first game. Bruins looked good with him and Krejci inserted into the lineup. Colorado has some serious talent on that roster and I think we should be encouraged by the effort against them. When was the last time we actually beat the Avs?

 

[member 96824]

Bart had a few Brain farts but he plays physical, moves the puck and is a decent passer. It was also his first game. Bruins looked good with him and Krejci inserted into the lineup. Colorado has some serious talent on that roster and I think we should be encouraged by the effort against them. When was the last time we actually beat the Avs?

Bruins haven't beaten them at home since 98 I saw yesterday. Bruins beat the avs last year at the Pepsi center though

 

[Salem13]

Bruins haven't beaten them at home since 98 I saw yesterday. Bruins beat the avs last year at the Pepsi center though

I think because of the old scheduling the stat is 8-0-1 in 25 years in Boston, it's bizarre.

 

[lextune]

heres a question though..... whats Bart doing on the ice with less a 30 seconds left in a 1-1 tie game in the third?

We all know the answer. It was his turn....

Clode.

Endless scenarios, down a goal late in a playoff game? 4th line. Just scored to tie the game with less than a minute left? 4th line. No one on any line has had a sniff at the goal all game? Roll 4 lines, change nothing.

Julien has proven he is incapable, or unwilling, to mix and match.

 

[Pie O My]

I think because of the old scheduling the stat is 8-0-1 in 25 years in Boston, it's bizarre.

they've got ah numbah!

This was almost as bad as that home matinee game a few years ago vs the Blues where we blew a 2 goal lead late because Jack Edwards jinxed us by saying it will take a miracle for the B's to lose at this point.

 

[Shoebottom]

Bart deserves some blame but it's awfully convenient and single-minded to place it all on him. If you saw the replay you should already know this-- regardless of how much you hate the kid.

Perhaps if one of the forwards had covered Tanguay (or even been within a few feet from him) as he parked himself in the slot, Bart would've had a much better of a chance of seeing Briere quietly sneak his way from behind the net to Sveddy's crease at the last second. At least Bart was covering somebody... Seidenberg and the forwards were apparently just waiting for the OT period to begin.

As a side note; Tanguay (#40) was in almost the exact same spot that Krejci was in last year when he tipped McQuaid's shot past Antti Niemi for a buzzer-beating GWG with exactly 0.08 seconds left in regulation to beat the Sharks at the Garden last season. Again, at least Bart was doing something useful in tying up Tanguay's stick. The same cannot be said for his veteran partner, who was snoozing between two uncovered opponents.

Allowing an opponent to comfortably hang around the slot untouched -- right between the two middle-ice hash marks in the D-zone -- is essentially just as bad/dangerous as leaving them near a post beside your goaltender. One could even argue that at least an alert goalie has the ability to actively use his stick in preventing a pass or shot-pass from reaching the open man sitting on top of him. In any case, there ARE ways in which a goalie can disrupt a potential scoring chance from the crease area. But not even Tim Thomas in 2011 form can do very much to take a man left open in the slot out of the play himself.

The funny part is how Seids will get a pass here despite his literally WATCHING Briere slide to the front of the net while coasting in the waning seconds of the game. Seids was pretty much directly facing Briere when the latter made his move, yet there was barely the slightest reaction/urgency out of #44 even though it was clear his partner was covering Tanguay in the slot and did not see Briere. Very discouraging.

It's that much more unfortunate because on the whole Seids looked pretty good and was IMO more effective in the Avs game than he's looked in the previous games and most of preseason. Given the ACL tear last season i'm being patient, especially since he is a proven NHL D-man, but nonetheless i am more disappointed in Denny than i am in Bart when it comes to that one goal. Effort matters to the final 0.001 second.

Yep, your whipping boy could've done more. And the forwards could've managed a bit more offense too. As terrible an ending as this game had, i thought the team looked better than they have as a unit so far this season and ultimately put together a credible effort against a talented Western team. Still plenty of blame to go around, and not just on Bart. Give it a rest.

Great post. I would also like to add that the lack of scoring is putting a lot of pressure on the D. Gotta think once the forwards get on track (Lucic, Krejci, and whoever replaces Iggi) the D won't be an issue.

 

[bb_fan]

I supervise 2 people at work. One is a rock star while the other is riding the struggle bus. Both of them made glaring mistakes over the past few days. The rock star understood her error, and the conversation ended on a "let's talk about how to make sure this doesn't happen again." The other guy is going to be reprimanded more harshly because the errors are a pattern. And, keep in mind, I gave this employee a pat on the back for remembering to punch in and out correctly every day last week.

I don't think Bart is held to a higher standard. I think his errors are examined more closely because of the quantity of them. He needs to be passable, not a rock star.

Completely agree with your last point. Claude needs to put him in a position to succeed, and that's not it.

Do your 'rock star' and 'struggle bus' employees make the salary and have the same level of responsibility within the company though?

I get the analogy, but for the work I do, there are really three 'levels' (with maybe some sub levels in between.....), and I can tell you the expectations vary greatly.

You cant look at the rock stars and the bottom feeders in the same vacuum, unless everything else is equal as well.

 

[LouJersey]

That goal looked like a community cluster **** tbh...

And Bart stood up and accepted blame , even though he didn't need to...Tells you a lot about the kid.

 

[Kate08]

Do your 'rock star' and 'struggle bus' employees make the salary and have the same level of responsibility within the company though?

I get the analogy, but for the work I do, there are really three 'levels' (with maybe some sub levels in between.....), and I can tell you the expectations vary greatly.

You cant look at the rock stars and the bottom feeders in the same vacuum, unless everything else is equal as well.

Levels of responsibility are assigned based on skillset and expectations. My rock star employee has a higher level of responsibility, and excels at it for the most part. When she makes mistakes, and she does, I trust that they will be addressed and corrected, and she will learn from them on the go forward.

My other employee doesn't have as much responsibility, but it's just as important for him to do his job correctly. I don't expect him to contribute as much as she does, but I do expect him to perform the tasks that are given to him correctly. My expectations for him are not as high from a productivity and product perspective, but I do expect his work to be done to expectation -- especially since I assign him work based on his abilities.

Bart is what he is, and if he's going to be used, it needs to be correctly. That part is on Claude. Figuring out whether or not he should continue to be used, that's on Chia and Claude.

 

[lopey]

I know we are focusing on the final shift, but my thoughts go to the entire last 2 games. Where is LUCIC, MARCHAND, CHARA, BERGY... the leaders of this team. Lucic not shown up, just like the series against the HABS. Marchand has done nothing as well. Time for a shake up I think. I really think its time to move one of these 2. My preference is Marchand.

 

[member 96824]

they've got ah numbah!

This was almost as bad as that home matinee game a few years ago vs the Blues where we blew a 2 goal lead late because Jack Edwards jinxed us by saying it will take a miracle for the B's to lose at this point.

Still convinced that was a high stick and no one will ever tell me differently

All it took was scoring on the open net!

 

[bb_fan]

Levels of responsibility are assigned based on skillset and expectations. My rock star employee has a higher level of responsibility, and excels at it for the most part. When she makes mistakes, and she does, I trust that they will be addressed and corrected, and she will learn from them on the go forward.

My other employee doesn't have as much responsibility, but it's just as important for him to do his job correctly. I don't expect him to contribute as much as she does, but I do expect him to perform the tasks that are given to him correctly. My expectations for him are not as high from a productivity and product perspective, but I do expect his work to be done to expectation -- especially since I assign him work based on his abilities.

Bart is what he is, and if he's going to be used, it needs to be correctly. That part is on Claude. Figuring out whether or not he should continue to be used, that's on Chia and Claude.

that's the bigger question...... Chara and Seids, and then a bunch of good 5-6 d-men at the moment.

and in this case, maybe more should be put on Bergy as the experienced 'vet' out there knowing who he's playing with.... who knows.

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Haven't seen the last 2 games (for this, I'm grateful!), but regarding Bart, I'd like to point out that he's 26 years old, and has 65 NHL games under his belt, 44 of which came last year.

There's an old saying: "You can teach defense, you can't teach offense."

We often hear about how defensemen take longer to develop than forwards, and perhaps we're seeing a prime example of that with Bart.

We long for the days of having guys like Ference, and now Boychuck is gone (Bad move IMO), but I wonder what was being said about those guys in their first 2 years.

My guess is there are plenty of D-men we'd love to have on the Bruins now, that received similar criticisms earlier in their careers.

 

[JCRO]

Late to the party... Just want to know WHY Bart started over Miller? Training during the day for work so I couldn't key in on the game too much.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

That goal looked like a community cluster **** tbh...

And Bart stood up and accepted blame , even though he didn't need to...Tells you a lot about the kid.

Bingo.

Where was Sides? Where was Bergeron? I didn't see any comments from either taking responsibility. To me, that's more disturbing than the goal itself. I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, but after a game like that, why are we getting two paragraphs of Bart taking responsibility and nothing from the vets? Maybe I just missed that?

Levels of responsibility are assigned based on skillset and expectations. My rock star employee has a higher level of responsibility, and excels at it for the most part. When she makes mistakes, and she does, I trust that they will be addressed and corrected, and she will learn from them on the go forward.

My other employee doesn't have as much responsibility, but it's just as important for him to do his job correctly. I don't expect him to contribute as much as she does, but I do expect him to perform the tasks that are given to him correctly. My expectations for him are not as high from a productivity and product perspective, but I do expect his work to be done to expectation -- especially since I assign him work based on his abilities.

Bart is what he is, and if he's going to be used, it needs to be correctly. That part is on Claude. Figuring out whether or not he should continue to be used, that's on Chia and Claude.

Not a good analogy at all. Not unless these two employees are working on joint projects all the time. These are two individuals assigned specific tasks. In the case of the B's it's five individuals working as one unit.

Last weekend my son's Pee Wee team had an Eval game and one of the wings kept drifting down too deep around the goal line. On one play, he was down below the goal line, and one of our D retrieved the puck, sent it around to where the wing was supposed to be. Instead the opposing D kept the puck in and carried to the top of the circle, the C had to shift over and take the puck carrier, leaving his man open. This kid got the pass and a good scoring opportunity and our goalie bailed everybody out with a nice save.

When they came off the ice, I didn't talk to the d-man or the C, I talked to the wing. His mistake set up a chain reaction of events that led to the scoring chance. If Bergeron takes his guy (Tanguay) we are not having this conversation. I'm not saying this is you, but Bart is low hanging fruit. It's way easier to blame him than a star on the team for something he should have done.

Losing Boychuk that late in the preseason is going to mean the D will have a period of adjustment regardless of who is in the lineup. I think they will figure it out. Right now I'm way more worried about the offense and I'm not sure Gagne is the answer.

 

[Kate08]

Bingo.

Where was Sides? Where was Bergeron? I didn't see any comments from either taking responsibility. To me, that's more disturbing than the goal itself. I don't want to make too big a deal out of it, but after a game like that, why are we getting two paragraphs of Bart taking responsibility and nothing from the vets? Maybe I just missed that?





Not a good analogy at all. Not unless these two employees are working on joint projects all the time. These are two individuals assigned specific tasks. In the case of the B's it's five individuals working as one unit.

Last weekend my son's Pee Wee team had an Eval game and one of the wings kept drifting down too deep around the goal line. On one play, he was down below the goal line, and one of our D retrieved the puck, sent it around to where the wing was supposed to be. Instead the opposing D kept the puck in and carried to the top of the circle, the C had to shift over and take the puck carrier, leaving his man open. This kid got the pass and a good scoring opportunity and our goalie bailed everybody out with a nice save.

When they came off the ice, I didn't talk to the d-man or the C, I talked to the wing. His mistake set up a chain reaction of events that led to the scoring chance. If Bergeron takes his guy (Tanguay) we are not having this conversation. I'm not saying this is you, but Bart is low hanging fruit. It's way easier to blame him than a star on the team for something he should have done.

Losing Boychuk that late in the preseason is going to mean the D will have a period of adjustment regardless of who is in the lineup. I think they will figure it out. Right now I'm way more worried about the offense and I'm not sure Gagne is the answer.

I disagree.

In order to be a high-functioning team, whether it be in the workplace or on the ice, everyone has to do their job, regardless of how intertwined they may be. Do your job, and trust your teammates to do theirs. Its how you're successful.

I'm also more worried about the offense than I am the defense going forward, and agree that Gagne isn't the answer. TO be frank, I'm horrified that Chiarelli thinks he's a viable option, and this was my fear from the original camp invite.

To all those who said what's the harm? It's just a PTO? This is the harm. He became a viable option.

 

[EverettMike]

It seemed like "piling on Bart" because some people defended his actions on that play. Literally no one denied Bergeron really ****ed up. So only one of those guys led to conversation. Hell, Seidenberg generated more conversation too.

The board 100% agrees Bergeron ****ed up. I don't know what to say about it though. I mean, how often does he do that? If you have a closer that just made forty straight saves you don't really have to talk much if he blows the 41st, know what I mean?

In this analogy Bartkowski is John Wasdin.

 

[Sheppy]

Regardless of who was on the ice/who's fault it was, you're not going to win games scoring 1 goal.

 

[member 96824]

Regardless of who was on the ice/who's fault it was, you're not going to win games scoring 1 goal.

 

[Kate08]

Regardless of who was on the ice/who's fault it was, you're not going to win games scoring 1 goal.

Nope.

Sure can pivot the ire to offense, if you'd like.