News Article: Barry Trotz (among many other things) breaks down the Pens' success

[Shockmaster]

Our speed on the backcheck, getting the puck out of the D-zone asap and our bottom six could actually score.

Trotz may look weird, but hes bang on. Not sure if Lars Eller is enough for them, but theyre on the right track.

He won't be enough if Kuznetzov is a no show in the playoffs again.

 

[BeautiPhil]

The 06-07 Nashville Predators had essentially 3 first lines, 4 Dmen who were either #1's at the time or would be seen as such within the next 3 years, and Vokoun as goalie. They won one playoff game that year under Trotz.

Trotz' greatest trait as a coach may be his ability to convince people that he had nothing to work with in Nashville.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Forsberg was past-prime, guys like Legwand, Dumont, Sullivan, Erat, while good players who put up good numbers, were far from 1st liners. Radulov was just starting to get going.

As for the defense, Weber and Suter were both only 21 years old. Calling them #1s then is like calling Maatta and Dumoulin #1s now. Timonen was a beast, Hamhuis was underrated and very good. Zidlicky was what he always is: puts up good offensive numbers, but hurts you a bit in your end.

It was certainly a good roster and probably the best Trotz had to work with in his years there, but it wasn't quite an 05-06 Red Wings or something like you make it out to be.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

That's a bit of an overstatement. Forsberg was past-prime, guys like Legwand, Dumont, Sullivan, Erat, while good players who put up good numbers, were far from 1st liners. Radulov was just starting to get going.

As for the defense, Weber and Suter were both only 21 years old. Calling them #1s then is like calling Maatta and Dumoulin #1s now. Timonen was a beast, Hamhuis was underrated and very good. Zidlicky was what he always is: puts up good offensive numbers, but hurts you a bit in your end.

It was certainly a good roster and probably the best Trotz had to work with in his years there, but it wasn't quite an 05-06 Red Wings or something like you make it out to be.

82 game paces for the forwards you mentioned in 06-07:

Forsberg: 79
Legwand: 66
Dumont:66
Sullivan: 86
Erat: 69

We also have Jason Arnott, who scored at a 65 point pace, and Paul Kariya, with 76 points.

Not to mention Alex Radulov, who was already one of the most productive offensive players in the league, but played less than 12 minutes a game. Probably because Trotz doesn't like him.

For reference, the 90th best forward in PPG that year would have had 60 points over a full season.

I'd argue that Legwand and Erat weren't actually 1st line guys, but 6 first liners in your top 9 in still amazing and should be able to make up essentially 3 first-line caliber trios.

 

[mpp9]

Nashville never had an in his prime elite #1C.

He's a perfectly capable coach.

 

[mpp9]

06-07 was also when we had multiple 90+ pt players around the league. Crosby had 120 that year.

 

[plaidchuck]

Nashville never had an in his prime elite #1C.

He's a perfectly capable coach.

Great coach, just disappointed with the whining. This is the era of working the refs again though so I guess it's to be expected.

 

[mpp9]

Great coach, just disappointed with the whining. This is the era of working the refs again though so I guess it's to be expected.

Id probably whine too if I coached the best team in the league the whole season and lost again to the team I always lose to and watch them go on to win Cups.

 

[BHD]

I did as well. I thought that the Pens could do well with a modified trap with the quick strike ability of players like Sid and Malkin to go the other way. l really just wanted a coach who had ability and a definable identity for the team. To say 'Peguins hockey' and everyone knowing what you mean. The Pens went a different and better direction in building around their stars, but Trotz and his ways would have had success here as well I am sure.

Exactly.

 

[ColePens]

Sully has one of the hardest jobs. He's changed the culture. He's given us an identity (along with JR). He's done everything we needed. Sustaining it at the NHL level is insanely difficult. I have faith in Sully, but that's a tough task.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It may be as you and others worry.

However, the one big advantage that was discussed by Trotz, and others before him, is the skill of the third line and the shut down ability of the Cullen line.

As Trotz said, no one had an answer for that. The Pens even have depth to step into those roles in case of injuries.

I do not see that having changed. Who now has the answer to match those bottom six lines?

97 percent of the scoring, which scored 3.5 goals a game over the last 50 games and over 3 goals a game in the playoffs, is back, the second highest percentage since the lockout. Of teams over 90 percent retention in scoring from the cup winning year almost all made the conference finals at least the next year.

Everyone saw and knew what the Pens were doing. It was no trick.

The answer is to build a team that can keep up with the speed and bottom six scoring of the Pens.

What teams made changes this off season to do that?

Winning again is extremely hard. When you have a bet of one team against the field smart money always chooses the field. But if you have to pick just one team, the Pens have to be a favorite. We know what they did and will do. The whole league knows. Until someone shows that they can stop it, and no one did in the playoffs, and really for about 60 percent of the year, you can not say that it will not continue. Smart money would say that it would.

 

[Whale Mingo]

One has to wonder what this team would have been able to do if Evgeni Malkin was 100%.

1. We seem to ask that question every year.

2. How much better than winning the Cup did you want them to do?

 

[Ugene Magic]

It may be as you and others worry.

However, the one big advantage that was discussed by Trotz, and others before him, is the skill of the third line and the shut down ability of the Cullen line.

As Trotz said, no one had an answer for that. The Pens even have depth to step into those roles in case of injuries.

I do not see that having changed. Who now has the answer to match those bottom six lines?

97 percent of the scoring, which scored 3.5 goals a game over the last 50 games and over 3 goals a game in the playoffs, is back, the second highest percentage since the lockout. Of teams over 90 percent retention in scoring from the cup winning year almost all made the conference finals at least the next year.

Everyone saw and knew what the Pens were doing. It was no trick.

The answer is to build a team that can keep up with the speed and bottom six scoring of the Pens.

What teams made changes this off season to do that?

Winning again is extremely hard. When you have a bet of one team against the field smart money always chooses the field. But if you have to pick just one team, the Pens have to be a favorite. We know what they did and will do. The whole league knows. Until someone shows that they can stop it, and no one did in the playoffs, and really for about 60 percent of the year, you can not say that it will not continue. Smart money would say that it would.

Two huge reasons the Caps lost were the depth they bought/thought could get the job done and Kuznetsov going totally AWALL.

They didn't have the right depth, and they didn't deserve a better fate.

As far as who has made changes to combat that, there is still a work in progress considering it only took half a season for the Pens to completely turn things around with some great adjustments to the roster and coaching that this can still be done in the same manner around the league. The Pens biggest advantage that no other team has is a bigger depth at their core. Can Teams match that?

(Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Maatta, Fleury and Murray)

A team could do it, add to their core just as the Pens did, and that is what it will take.

Trotz and the Caps moved forward thinking they were the team of the league last year being fooled upon a weak eastern conference the first half of the season and them taking full advantage of it obtuse to the fact teams could get better while they add to their depth that made them older and slower.

Look at teams like Chicago, Kings and the Penguins and notice the same trait they all had, insane depth. Not just depth, but depth at their core. Makes sense that those 3 teams have been in 8 cup finals in the last decade.

It is not a secret. Detroit won on depth, as had the Pens in the past being the last two teams to repeat. Boston had depth that saw them in two finals. For most teams that don't have top end cores are teams that will be your one and done due to cap, UFA and mismanagement.

I don't know how that could be a secret. Depth wins!!!!

Not just any depth, but top end depth if you plan on competing seriously for more then one year.

The Caps have "never" had that in the OV era to compete even once. Not even this past season.

But don't point that out to them, I'm quite fine on how it has played out.

Let them be obtuse.

 

[pistolpete11]

I thought the Caps had pretty good depth last year

Not as good as the Penguins and that is ultimately why they lost, but nobody had the depth the Pens did and do. But compared to the rest of the league, the Caps' depth was pretty good IMO.

 

[Corvidae]

Very interesting X's and O's break down of what the Pens did from a coach that I think a lot of and who they beat only a few months ago. It was part of a larger interview. A few of the highlights, but the whole thing is worth reading:

So I’m going ‘we’re down a goal, why put Mike Richards’ line out there when I could put Backstrom’s or Kuznetsov’s line out there against Cullen?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/barry-trotz-subban-vs-weber-000000295.html

lol remember when people thought Mike Richards was a top center? I know that's absolutely not the key point here, I just found it funny.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

To be fair, Mike Richards was a damn good two-way/defensive guy. Injuries and drugs have beaten him down to nothingness.

 

[Corvidae]

To be fair, Mike Richards was a damn good two-way/defensive guy. Injuries and drugs have beaten him down to nothingness.

Don't be fair. F that guy and laugh at him with me.

 

[Bart9349]

The Pens biggest advantage that no other team has is a bigger depth at their core. Can Teams match that?

(Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang, Maatta, Fleury and Murray)

A team could do it, add to their core just as the Pens did, and that is what it will take.

I don't know how that could be a secret. Depth wins!!!!

At first, I questioned whether Olli Maatta should have been included on your list of core players. I now stand corrected.

Many times during the playoffs, I thought Maatta was more a liability than an asset. After reviewing the stats, however, I now think Maatta could develop into one of the premier defensemen in the league. (During the regular season, I was only able to follow the Pens sporadically and from a distance living out here on the West Coast.)

First, Maatta is only 22. Second, his +/- for the regular season is an impressive +27 (sixth in the league). By contrast, Letang is 29 years old with a +/- of +9.

•Maatta made his Ontario Hockey League debut during the 2011-12 season, leading all rookie defensemen with 32 points (5-27--32) in 58 games.

http://penguins.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476874

You are correct, sir, to include Maatta on that list of solid "core" players. He is certainly a player with a great future.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Don't be fair. F that guy and laugh at him with me.

Fair enough.

 

[Rectify]

If we are talking core defensive guys, Dumolin should be right up there with Maatta.

 

[ColePens]

I also really disagree with the idea that the Pens defense just threw the puck up the ice. I understand we did the flip play, but our defense made great outlets. The flip play was to push the defense back and get 50/50 chances. But other than that, our outlets were ****ing A+.

 

[vodeni]

I also really disagree with the idea that the Pens defense just threw the puck up the ice. I understand we did the flip play, but our defense made great outlets. The flip play was to push the defense back and get 50/50 chances. But other than that, our outlets were ****ing A+.

that's the one that caught my attention. If this is how he analyzes this series, he will be in for more surprise next time around...our outlets allowed us for fast screaming transition wing sides, there is a stat somewhere that shows our zone entries and subsequent shots, thats a joke...

 

[plaidchuck]

Yeah he's implying that the other D other than Letang couldn't transition or make pases which isn't true.

I really think what happened this time around is that teams dismissed the pens (especially the D) based on years prior in the playoffs and were.kind of surprised and couldn't adjust until it was too late.

 

[Fordy]

Yeah he's implying that the other D other than Letang couldn't transition or make pases which isn't true.

I really think what happened this time around is that teams dismissed the pens (especially the D) based on years prior in the playoffs and were.kind of surprised and couldn't adjust until it was too late.

apparently they still are

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I also really disagree with the idea that the Pens defense just threw the puck up the ice. I understand we did the flip play, but our defense made great outlets. The flip play was to push the defense back and get 50/50 chances. But other than that, our outlets were ****ing A+.

It reminds me of that discussion that you had with a couple of shark fans regarding what F3 was and how the Pens broke up the dump and retrieve. No matter how many times you explained it to them, just as Neal and Malkin tried to explain it to Rossi, it just did not get through.

The Pens did use the Murphy dump at times, or really anything that was open to them, but their real skill was puck retrieval and precise passes to leave the defensive zone and create opportunities down ice.

We looked at what they were doing in detail during that cup run.

I fetched some of the analysis that I wrote and quoted from then:

I think that you are mixing up kinds of speed. You are talking about limiting the stretch pass. The Pens do that if it is available, or at times the Murphy dump and let their speedy wings try and beat the defender to the puck to get a step and an odd man break. But the kind of speed that the Pens excel at is working as a unit to get the puck out of their zone and down the ice, making quick precise passes and supporting one another as a unit to not get pinned by an aggressive forecheck. They simply do not hold onto the puck if they can help it but quickly make the decision and pass to a supporting player who in turn makes another pass as they work it down the ice. They do not like retreating behind their goal, but instead try and move the puck out of their zone as quickly as possible. Though they did set up behind their goal a bit more against Tampa Bay because of what Tampa was doing to counter that. That is another kind of speed.

Like this article talks of going into the Capitals' series, where they tried to do similar:

The puck is chipped deep by the man on the half-wall, with both Rangers defensemen back. Bryan Rust enters the zone with speed, blocking the Rangers from playing it or clearing it, and simultaneously ties up both players from covering his support, Matt Cullen. Cullen is left by himself to shoot on net and he beat Lundqvist clean.

https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4/pao6.mp4

More than anything, the Penguins seem keen on occupying time and space and operating as a unit that support one another, than having a specific location or position that each need to be covering.

http://www.pensburgh.com/2016/4/27/...washingtons-breakout-vs-pittsburghs-forecheck

Sullivan has been excellent at having the players buy into working as a unit to support and move the puck.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The long and short of it is that Trotz is too smart a coach to think that this is a simple murphy dump just because on the final pass barely clears a forward's head completely ignoring the beautiful quick passes which actually led to the chance down ice:

https://cdn.streamable.com/video/mp4/pao6.mp4