We do agree on a lot. Yeah, you're the optimist
, I'm the pessimist
(I prefer the realist
), but we have a relatively similar view of things.Balanced scoring
- Thread starter ABasin
- Start date
We do agree on a lot. Yeah, you're the optimist
, I'm the pessimist (I prefer the realist), but we have a relatively similar view of things.We aren't Edmonton.
But we are like Edmonton because year after year we throw our 18 year olds right into the NHL. Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog (we even gave him the C at 18), Mackinnon, now Rantanen... (Admittedly a lot of those guys were very successful, but other organizations give their guys a lot more time to develop, and other organizations win a lot more. Maybe we should try that.)
IMO, NHL teams are successful when their good prospects have been killing it in the AHL or Europe for a year or two, and then eased into a good NHL lineup onto the third line with lots of support. Look how Teuvo Terravainen slid onto the Blackhawks roster. Or Thomas Tatar and Gustav Nyquist on Detroit.
Now you can say that's because those guys are smaller and needed more time to get bigger. And maybe that's true. But I still think that developing our prospects the right way should not be a luxury that we can choose to do or not do. It should be a necessity.
Not every high draft pick is Connor McDavid or Steven Stamkos.
Asking 18 and 19 year olds to come into the NHL and not only play, but produce, and lead, and win is a lot of pressure, and I don't think it's a good strategy for the future.
Back to the Edmonton comparison.
we are also like Edmonton because we are hoarding an embarrassment of riches without seeing any results.
we are also like Edmonton because we often blame those kids, despite the fact that the coaching and the system are seriously lacking.
We aren't Edmonton..... but there are some similarities.
This is a very contentious and debatable topic. Views on this are divided and as you can tell I'm a very opinionated individual. I don't expect everybody to agree. This is just my opinion. It's what I believe.
One of the things that's VERY concerning to me about this club is that they are still shockingly terrible at generating traffic in front of the net. I think that's one reason why they've been so ridiculously bad at hitting the net. They know no one is deflecting shots or scooping up rebounds so they feel like they gotta put it in the net the first time around.
Thing is, being good in front of the net has nothing to do with size. Guys like Ciccarelli, Verbeek, and Svatos were all undersized forwards whose bread and butter were battles in front of the net. Who was the team's best player at scoring the dirty goals last season? Danny Briere. And no one has yet stepped up to replace him in that particular role.
Iggy is of course a power forward but he's more of a shooter than a guy who crashes the net and gets to rebounds. Landy can do that but while he can crash the net, he doesn't really just stand in there to deflect shots and scoop up rebounds. Avs absolutely need to find a way to address this need.
I'm not entirely sure such things can be taught. Either players do it or they don't. It's in their makeup. Any such players in the system? I'm thinking not.
That's probably the biggest reason why Milan Hejduk always has and always will be my favorite Avs player. He could score the fancy sniper-type goals in open ice when he was with Sakic or Forsberg, but he was just as able to stand his ground five feet from the net and fire in a short pass from Stastny as well. He was willing and able to do whatever needed to be done.
On a side note, all the Stastny-haters can get stuffed. Right now the team also doesn't have a playmaker who makes his living battling behind the net and getting short passes to the slot, while also driving play. While I don't begrudge the Avs' decision not to trade him and not to re-sign him, his loss was quite possibly bigger than O'Reilly's. Also another reason why the whole "Casper" talk was nonsense.
Thing is, being good in front of the net has nothing to do with size. Guys like Ciccarelli, Verbeek, and Svatos were all undersized forwards whose bread and butter were battles in front of the net. Who was the team's best player at scoring the dirty goals last season? Danny Briere. And no one has yet stepped up to replace him in that particular role.
Iggy is of course a power forward but he's more of a shooter than a guy who crashes the net and gets to rebounds. Landy can do that but while he can crash the net, he doesn't really just stand in there to deflect shots and scoop up rebounds. Avs absolutely need to find a way to address this need.
I'm not entirely sure such things can be taught. Either players do it or they don't. It's in their makeup. Any such players in the system? I'm thinking not.
That's probably the biggest reason why Milan Hejduk always has and always will be my favorite Avs player. He could score the fancy sniper-type goals in open ice when he was with Sakic or Forsberg, but he was just as able to stand his ground five feet from the net and fire in a short pass from Stastny as well. He was willing and able to do whatever needed to be done.
On a side note, all the Stastny-haters can get stuffed. Right now the team also doesn't have a playmaker who makes his living battling behind the net and getting short passes to the slot, while also driving play. While I don't begrudge the Avs' decision not to trade him and not to re-sign him, his loss was quite possibly bigger than O'Reilly's. Also another reason why the whole "Casper" talk was nonsense.
Nalens Oga
Registered User
Your whole post is accurate and I think the solution to this might be to go to Europe and find a good chippy forward who's competent offensively. A Komarov type but with better offense. Not one of those PPG+ skilled guys from Europe whose game doesn't translate here. We aren't at the beginning of a rebuild so we can't wait around for prospects to contribute here. This kinda guy probably won't put up more than 15-20 goals but the work around the net he does can really help out whichever line he's on.
Also, for all those small CHL forwards we drafted, why couldn't one of them have been a Gallagher-lite lol. Friggin Pracey
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
That's like 50% of Bleackley's game is standing in front of the net. He does it in camp drills. That's like his first instinct. He forechecks in the corner or behind the net, gets the cycle going and then goes to stand in front of the net. But you know, we don't need that in our system as you've said Av Beaudin also scores all his goals within 5 feet of the net but nobody treats it like their job like Bleackley does.
I have noticed it's a problem and that's why McLeod is out there in critical situations because nobody else can do it.
Beaudin also scores all his goals within 5 feet of the net but nobody treats it like their job like Bleackley does.I have noticed it's a problem and that's why McLeod is out there in critical situations because nobody else can do it.
- Aug 25, 2006
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McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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Ultimately, I think the problem is a lack of vision for the team. They have all this talent, and on paper should be unstoppable, but they're not consistent because there's not really a plan on the ice. Individual players make things happen sometimes on a lucky break, but more often than not passes to the slot go right through because there's nobody there to receive them. They go through the motions of cycling without any idea how to go from that to a scoring chance. Playing like one unit is the main reason why Detroit has their unprecedented playoff streak going.
It hurts to say this, but that's Roy's fault. Last year, I couldn't blame him for what happened. Major injuries happened that nobody could have predicted or planned for. Inaccurate passes up and down the ice can be blamed on the players, and the defense was woefully talent-poor. All that can't be blamed on the coaching only one season after a shakeup. But this year, we've got a deeper four-line offense, vastly improved blueliners, and every indication we should be back in contention. What's killing us is that nobody knows what they're supposed to do when they have the puck, and other teams with just a little bit more cohesion eat us alive when given a chance. Roy's got to step down and find another coach. I'm not going to be able to have faith in this team until he does.
It hurts to say this, but that's Roy's fault. Last year, I couldn't blame him for what happened. Major injuries happened that nobody could have predicted or planned for. Inaccurate passes up and down the ice can be blamed on the players, and the defense was woefully talent-poor. All that can't be blamed on the coaching only one season after a shakeup. But this year, we've got a deeper four-line offense, vastly improved blueliners, and every indication we should be back in contention. What's killing us is that nobody knows what they're supposed to do when they have the puck, and other teams with just a little bit more cohesion eat us alive when given a chance. Roy's got to step down and find another coach. I'm not going to be able to have faith in this team until he does.
Oh, this team is very stoppable. Very.
It's not Roy's fault that the goaltending for whatever reason has imploded. That's one reason this team looks so utterly dreadful. It's also not Roy's fault that Iginla and Tanguay have started so poorly.
I do think coaching is playing a role in this poor start. But I don't think a rock star, Stanley Cup-caliber coach could do worlds better with this roster either.
It's not Roy's fault that the goaltending for whatever reason has imploded. That's one reason this team looks so utterly dreadful. It's also not Roy's fault that Iginla and Tanguay have started so poorly.
I do think coaching is playing a role in this poor start. But I don't think a rock star, Stanley Cup-caliber coach could do worlds better with this roster either.
- Oct 24, 2008
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Remember these lines?
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Tanguay - Stastny - MacKinnon
Ignore the trainwrecks on defense for a moment; what an offense that was.
Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie
McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Tanguay - Stastny - MacKinnon
Ignore the trainwrecks on defense for a moment; what an offense that was.
WarriorOfGandhi
Was saying Boo-urns
Nihiliste
Registered User
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McMetal
Writer of Wrongs
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You've got to be joking me. Tanguay has 2G4A and Iggy has 3G4A. How in god's name can you say they've "started poorly"? Numbers on the board is the number one indicator of whether you're contributing to the team, unless you're an energy player like McLeod or a stay-at-home D man like Beauchemin. I'd rather have one guy like Iggy with 7 points through 10 games than three Duchene's with a pitiful 2. They may not be the fastest skaters or the most physical, but when they're touching the puck, goals happen. You don't win games in pro sports by looking pretty and playing sharp. Both are in the top 5 for point production through 10 games, what more could you possibly ask for?
Last edited:
Avsboy
Registered User
- Dec 12, 2006
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Yeah....replaced em with Iginla, Grigorenko, Soderberg. Not enough quality or quantity in return on offense.
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