Recalled/Assigned: Baertschi called up, expected to play in Montreal

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
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The amount of flack Paul Byron takes on these boards is sickening. He is the epitome of flames hockey. He's fast, works his butt off, chips in offensively, kills penalties, is pretty effective 5 on 5 and is always proving his doubters wrong, and his effort level is infectious.

Getting rid of him over guys like Setogucchi, Baertschi, or even Granlund and Ferland is almost comical to me. I like Ferdaddy and Granlund but they both still have a lot more to prove than Paul Byron at this point.

Byron is a plus 11 in his last 60 games played... But yeah, we should get rid of him :shakehead:

Agreed.

Although in his small sample size Granlund has earned a place so far IMO. Id much rather have Byron or Granlund over Setoguchi. Ferland, Baertschi will likely need to go back down but none of them should be up if it means sending Byron down.
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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He plays hard, sure, but his ceiling isn't as high as other prospects. Effort will only take you so far if the talent isn't their to back it up.
 

CraigsList

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He won't be sent down because of how hard he works. However, I don't see him in the long term plans unless he wants to be a 13/14th forward when we are contending.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
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He plays hard, sure, but his ceiling isn't as high as other prospects. Effort will only take you so far if the talent isn't their to back it up.

I agree. I think Granlund and Ferland will be better in time. But at this point Paul Byron is more proven, he helps our team win, and has done nothing to lose his roster spot to those other guys on two-way contracts or Setogucchi.
 

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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I love how people who don't understand hockey use +/- as if it's gospel :laugh:
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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I love how people who don't understand hockey use +/- as if it's gospel :laugh:

I played AAA midget hockey, but yeah I know nothing about the game :laugh:. You think Klimchuk is the better prospect then Emile Poirier, so yes, you know a lot about hockey, clearly.

Hey I actually provided a bunch of other reasons why Paul Byron is good other than his outstanding plus minus. Plus minus was just one piece of evidence I used to support my thesis that, Paul Byron deserves a roster spot You just kicked dirt on my opinion, good counter-argument, did you learn that in university?

Paul Byron deserves a roster spot that's all I'm saying. The only guy I would keep over him right now is Jooris, but with every game I'm getting more and more impressed by Granlund.

You gotta like Baertschi's effort, but his positioning and decision making is not even close to an NHL level yet.
 
May 27, 2012
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I played AAA midget hockey, but yeah I know nothing about the game :laugh:. You think Klimchuk is the better prospect then Emile Poirier, so yes, you know a lot about hockey, clearly.

Hey I actually provided a bunch of other reasons why Paul Byron is good other than his outstanding plus minus. Plus minus was just one piece of evidence I used to support my thesis that, Paul Byron deserves a roster spot You just kicked dirt on my opinion, good counter-argument, did you learn that in university?

Paul Byron deserves a roster spot that's all I'm saying. The only guy I would keep over him right now is Jooris, but with every game I'm getting more and more impressed by Granlund.

You gotta like Baertschi's effort, but his positioning and decision making is not even close to an NHL level yet.

You don't have to play AAA hockey to know hockey. ;)
 
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Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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I don't know if I'd say that Klimchuk is a better prospect than Emile, but I agree fully with AF that due to his smarts that Klimchuk could end up being a better scorer, it would not surprise me in the slightest.
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
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But seriously no one has explained in explicit terms why Paul Byeon is no good. Why is he no good? Let's hear your self imposed expert opinion AF?
 

Calculon

unholy acting talent
Jan 20, 2006
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But seriously no one has explained in explicit terms why Paul Byeon is no good. Why is he no good? Let's hear your self imposed expert opinion AF?

That's probably because no on here thinks he's "no good."

Thinking he might lose his spot on the team at some point down the road =/= thinking he's "no good."
 

YMCMBYOLO

WEDABEST
Mar 30, 2009
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That was hilarious. It would've had some merit if he said NCAA or CHL, BUT YO HE PLAYED MAJOR MIDGET

It wouldn't surprise me if he played Junior B as that's the path most AAA go into.. AAA is really good by the way, nothing to laugh at, I played AA and wasn't good enough to play AAA. If he was really good at the AAA level, snipe mayance played Junior A and/or have gotten drafted into the chl
 

Tkachuk Norris

Registered User
Jun 22, 2012
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It wouldn't surprise me if he played Junior B as that's the path most AAA go into.. AAA is really good by the way, nothing to laugh at, I played AA and wasn't good enough to play AAA. If he was really good at the AAA level, snipe mayance played Junior A and/or have gotten drafted into the chl

haha I was a mediocre player in AAA. But I've been on the same team as Thomas Hickey at points. We both played for Trails West and the Royals. AAA midget is definitely not something to laugh at. It's basically a level below the WHL.
 

chunkylover53

Registered User
Nov 26, 2013
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The amount of flack Paul Byron takes on these boards is sickening. He is the epitome of flames hockey. He's fast, works his butt off, chips in offensively, kills penalties, is pretty effective 5 on 5 and is always proving his doubters wrong, and his effort level is infectious.

Getting rid of him over guys like Setogucchi, Baertschi, or even Granlund and Ferland is almost comical to me. I like Ferdaddy and Granlund but they both still have a lot more to prove than Paul Byron at this point.

Byron is a plus 11 in his last 60 games played... But yeah, we should get rid of him :shakehead:

Word, I like Byron, he plays hard and doesn't slack off. Yeah he's snakebitten, missing on breaks and hitting a ton of posts, but they will come eventually. Would like him to stay, or if not at least have him succeed elsewhere.
 

YMCMBYOLO

WEDABEST
Mar 30, 2009
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haha I was a mediocre player in AAA. But I've been on the same team as Thomas Hickey at points. We both played for Trails West and the Royals. AAA midget is definitely not something to laugh at. It's basically a level below the WHL.

Yeah, definitely, I know where you're coming from. Anyone who makes fun of AA don't know what they're talking about (SM ;))
 

Ace Rimmer

Stoke me a clipper.
But seriously no one has explained in explicit terms why Paul Byeon is no good. Why is he no good? Let's hear your self imposed expert opinion AF?

Actually his explanation for wanting to send him down is that he wanted Byron to play important minutes in the AHL rather than playing limited minutes and/or sitting in the pressbox.

I don't think anyone has come out and said Byron is no good.

What he did do was point out that use of the plus minus stat isn't exactly the most important reason to keep him around, which it isn't.
 

ThatHighGuy

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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haha I was a mediocre player in AAA. But I've been on the same team as Thomas Hickey at points. We both played for Trails West and the Royals. AAA midget is definitely not something to laugh at. It's basically a level below the WHL.
Ah i hated Trails West and the Royals.. Coming from a Simons Valley and Northstar player ;)
 

Sean Monahan

JIMMIES ARE RUSTLED
Nov 25, 2011
4,298
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Yeah, definitely, I know where you're coming from. Anyone who makes fun of AA don't know what they're talking about (SM ;))

meh, I made the major midget team in our district in BC (west Kootenays) but got injured that year. Albeit it seems extremely small compared to major midgets in cities like Calgary or Vancouver :laugh: Nothing to gloat either but I see where he was coming from.
 

DCDM

Da Rink Cats
Mar 24, 2008
38,094
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Calgary
Friedman mentioned Baertschi in his 30 thoughts today.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-its-not-going-to-be-easy-for-ted-nolan/

12. As the injuries mounted last week, Calgary called up Sven Baertschi from Abbotsford. His numbers were ugly in the AHL, just three points (no goals) in 10 games. Even worse, a few teams that saw him were exceedingly unimpressed, with one suggesting he wouldn’t want Baertschi near his other prospects. The Flames defended the forward against accusations that his attitude was bad. “Was he unhappy to be there? Yes, initially he was, but we could understand that,” said GM Brad Treliving. “To say he was causing problems, that’s not fair.” Treliving added that there is room in Calgary for Baertschi’s skill-set. He is exempt from waivers for another year or so. That’s probably the real deadline for him in southern Alberta.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
Apr 22, 2014
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Someone on CP said his thoughts on Sven, and I think he is bang on. Credit to Calgary4Life:

I think most people focused on the zone comments (implying Baertschi wasn't good defensively), but it is what is bolded that I think is the most important to Sven's development. Everyone thought Sven was sent down to work on his defensive acumen more than anything. Though I would agree it needed work, it wasn't much worse (if at all worse) than any other rookie breaking into the NHL.

What I see in Sven's game is a lack of urgency. A lack of compete. A lack of 'jump' in his game. He then gives you a few moments of 'brilliance' (like Burke has stated) where he will make a great offensive play (or even a defensive one at times, actually) and it makes you forget the 3 shifts prior to that one, and the first 30 seconds of that one shift up until that moment of brilliance. It makes people think Sven is a special player - and in many ways, he is.

I think that is what this organization is trying to beat into him at the moment - you have a 45 second shift, we want you to be working hard and skating hard for that entire shift. Not just when you find yourself with a premium chance, not just when you find yourself having to cover up for a mistake, but a full 45 second hard shift.

When Gaudreau wasn't doing much at the start of the season, you still saw him have a jump in his game. Jooris has a lot of jump in his game. Granlund has a lot of jump in his game. They all hustle out there. This is a very hard-working team from the top down really. When I see Sven, I honestly can't help but be reminded of the country-club atmosphere - Tanguay and company especially. Incredible skill that very few players possess, but someone that doesn't play hard all the time. Someone that looks almost apathetic. Maybe someone that is just saving it for when the game matters. Well, every second of your shift matters.

To me, the organization doesn't want to turn Sven into a Selke winner. They don't want to turn Sven into a bruiser who will physically engage at every opportunity. I think they want Sven to compete hard for the entirety of his shift, each and every shift. This is why he usually loses a puck battle - not because he isn't strong enough or smart enough, but simply because he simply isn't competing as hard as the other player.

Why hasn't Sven been given more minutes? It is tough to reward someone with more minutes when that player isn't competing as hard as the other players, or even being a difference maker. You simply can not start rewarding Sven at this point in time with increased minutes and further reward him with PP time when he simply isn't putting in full-shifts.

This is what perplexes me the most about Sven. The guy is a hard worker. When the Flames were scouting him thoroughly, this is what they noticed. The fabled hotel room visits where they would look for Sven and see everyone else chilling out or playing video games, and finally finding Sven riding the bike. The whole "staying longer to work on his skills" after practice or after a game. He did that with Calgary as well. He did that in Abbotsford. So why doesn't he skate hard all the time during his shifts? Why hasn't this organization been able to turn that around?

Next game, I encourage people to keep watching Sven every second on the ice regardless of where the puck or situation is. I find him coasting a lot more than other players. It looks like he isn't playing hard. You compare that to Gaudreau, and you see a huge difference. Focus on Granlund - he is such a smart 2-way player at his age, and knows where to be (so you would assume he needs to skate less hard as he is usually already in position or nearby), but he seems to work harder out there continuously. Compare that to Glencross, who many posters feel just doesn't put in full efforts any longer - I see him skating harder and competing harder. Setoguchi - for as relevant he is to the team sadly - also competes way harder. Seto is not getting much in the way of results, but at least he is much harder to play against than Sven is, while being just as productive on the stat sheet.

I hope Sven shows me up next game, and I get this post quoted 30x by 30 different people saying I am an idiot after watching Sven intently. I hope he comes out next game and gives a strong effort. He has done so in the past on the Flames, and has been rewarded (there was a game last season where Sven received the most ice-time of any forward, for instance, at I think ~21 minutes). Hartley DOES reward hard-work. Hartley does reward results too. Sven is not working hard out there, and he is not getting results. You simply can't increase his ice-time and hope for the best. Not only is that sending the wrong message to Sven, it is sending the wrong message to the rest of the team.

Now, before people accuse me of not liking Sven, I ranked him as the 3rd best prospect on this team. I might drop him down another few spots if we were to re-rank at this point in time, but I still think he is easily in the top 10, and probably still in the top 5. I think this kid has loads of talent that few prospects have. I also think that he will eventually get it together and become not only a player in the NHL, but an impact player. I just think it will just take some time, that's all. I think the worst thing happened with his development - he got rushed and rewarded prematurely, at a time when this organization (especially fans) were hoping and praying for some light.

I am still glad we drafted him, and I am glad that he is part of the organization. I just have to shake my head at some posters who insist he is being misused by Hartley, or that Hartley has some personal hate towards Sven that is holding Sven back. I also think it is hilarious that some posters want to see Sven play with better line mates - he was playing with Byron, who did very well with Monahan, did very well with Gaudreau, etc. Byron is what I consider the very best player to play with Sven right now. He is quick enough and talented enough to play with Sven. He is gritty enough and defensively responsible enough to help cover for Sven's mistakes. He is also a kid who has had to work very hard and keep working very hard every single second that Hartley sends him over the boards. He was also under the microscope for a while for being part of the Regehr trade. If I was Hartley, I would make these two room together on road trips, and when I sent Byron out for a shift without Sven, I would whisper into Sven's ear: "If you played with this much heart and urgency in your game each and every shift, not only would I give you all the ice time you could handle, but you would be on your way to becoming a star in this league.". I would argue that Byron deserves to be playing with better line mates than Sven, actually. I can't think of a better influence and a better line mate to Sven than Byron, actually.

Sven is not a bust. He is simply someone who I think was rewarded for not playing full-shifts, and he has to realize this HAS to change. He has more than enough NHL talent. It just appears that his compete level (even though he is a hard working off the ice) is not where it needs to be, and once he learns to give it his all every shift, he will be asked to buy a property in Calgary.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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I only read the first couple paragraphs be he seemed to sum up exactly what I have been trying about Sven for a couple years now and he worded it much better than I ever have.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
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I only read the first couple paragraphs be he seemed to sum up exactly what I have been trying about Sven for a couple years now and he worded it much better than I ever have.

Yeah, he's a well respect poster because although he writes a book, everything he says is so true. And yes, he words it way better than I would ever do.
 

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