Backup G situation

[ShaneFalco]

Apparently they were scouting CBJ's goalie Korpisalo

 

[ACC1224]

Sparks was far better than Hutch. Sure he had some poor games, mostly because the team did not show up for him at all, but he had just as many games where he kept the Leafs in it and won. Hutch has yet to do that, and he has actually cost the Leafs games. Maybe not the Boston one, but the MTL and WSH games were games that the team should have been able to win with a competent backup goalie in net. Sparks likely would have won those games.

Hutch does make some big saves, but then he gives up rebounds that he should have easily smothered, or lower danger shots that a goalie should be saving a lot more than he has. It wasn't any different last year, but his numbers were inflated by games against bottom feeders whom the Leafs dominated. Maybe Babcock should start sheltering him and only play him against teams that are struggling to score. Otherwise, it may be time to give Kaskisuo a shot if Dubas is unable to find a suitable replacement who can fit into our cap structure.

'Far better' seems a little overstated.
Regardless, neither is/was good enough which is really all that matters.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The thing about backup goaltending is that unless you get yourself a Halak, Grubauer or something like that - goalies that really should be starters - you just have no idea what you're going to get. Saros is one of the best backups in the league. This season he's pretty much been worse than Hutchinson. We could have paid Marner much less, acquired Saros for that money, and been in the same situation right now.

 

[robertmac43]

Hutch was not even that bad last night, probably his best game of the year.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Andersen should play both games when the second game is against a top team or a division opponent.

For example play him both games on Friday and Saturday this weekend. Then let Hutch play next Tuesday.

That gives Freddy a whole week off to rest up.

we think it’s stupid and likely lots more fans do. The players and Andersen likely do but could never say a word about it. Its crazy

 

[hoglund]

Last night's loss wasn't on the goalie, they were out shot and out played. Even if they wanted to get another goalie, they don't have the cap space because of the over payment of Nylander, Mathews and Marner. All those players could have taken 1 million less (and still be multimillionaires) which would allow 3 million left to sign a good backup and a decent defensemen.

 

[Mess]

Yes this needs to be addressed again.
While better than Sparks, Hutchinson seems to have a really tough time with rebounds particularly his glove hand, it's like he plays with oven mitts on.

They'll need to work out some type of trade and bring in someone better. Their cap mismanagement will make that a challenge though.

After this weekend,when is the next time the backup would be counted on to play?

Pucks that hit him right in the glove seem to land at his feet causing rebounds.

I was thinking he plays like he has a blocker on both hands.

With your backup goalie playing 20 games it makes the difference between playoffs and not, but with your cap management it leaves little cap space if any for improvements and your left with a goalie making league minimum as options or youngsters on ELC.

Leafs now have 0 of 6 potential points with Hutchinson in net.

Leafs are still chasing the McElhinney mistake now 2 years later.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

'Far better' seems a little overstated.
Regardless, neither is/was good enough which is really all that matters.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Sparks was ~.500 goalie with us.

So far Hutch is swinging a solid .000 and has a save percentage which is 1.2% worse.

I mean it's only 3 games so far this year and a few games last year, but "far better" is appropriate considering how Hutchinson has played since coming to the Leafs.

 

[Tak7]

Last year we had Sparks.

This year we have the right handed Sparks.

This wont end well

 

[ACC1224]

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

Sparks was ~.500 goalie with us.

So far Hutch is swinging a solid .000 and has a save percentage which is 1.2% worse.

I mean it's only 3 games so far this year and a few games last year, but "far better" is appropriate considering how Hutchinson has played since coming to the Leafs.

Sparks had a better team playing in front of him or so it seemed.
I'm glad one of them is gone, the other won't be far behind.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Leafs are still chasing the McElhinney mistake now 2 years later.

Not anything we could have done this year. McElhinney would have priced himself out regardless. At best we could have had a better guy last year.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Doesn't mean he should have done it any differently. As you have seen with Binnington, sometimes it's a good idea to give the young guy a shot. He earned that shot, and McElhinney was a risky bet.

What would have people said if Sparks turned out to be a guy who could play 30+ games at an above average level making 750k? That's literally what the Leafs needed right now. We go with McElhinney and maybe we could have got it last year, but we definitely would not have got it this year.

Hindsight is not exactly a legitimate basis for a claim.

 

[Mess]

I still struggle with managements logic when it comes to the back up goalie position.

Freddy Andersen and Curtis McElhinney formed a perfect combo that lead to Leafs team setting an all-time high in franchise points and wins record in a season in 2017-18

So then last year it was Sparks seen as the upgrade, and so they waived Hutchenson to the AHL after clearing waivers suggesting Sparks >> Hutch.

During the AHL Calder playoffs last year it was Kasimir Kaskisuo that started while Hutch held the clipboard as his backup, suggesting Kaskisuo >> Hutch.

So now this year the plan in 2019-20 was take your backup AHL goalie and make him your backup NHL goalie and this was to make the Leafs more Cup competitive in the process.

Trying to wrap ones brain around that management logic flow makes my head hurt.

 

[Menzinger]

dont blink if theres a trade befire December.

We need Anderesen ro be able to step up thpugh in the meantime

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sparks had a better team playing in front of him or so it seemed.
I'm glad one of them is gone, the other won't be far behind.

Not on the nights he sucked he didn't. There were numerous games where the team, or at least the defense, did not show up for Sparks. There were also games where the team played like they did against Washington and MTL, but unlike Hutch, Sparks was able to do his job to win those games, at least near the beginning of the year before the Leafs sucked.

Sparks could have been better, don't get me wrong, but the team definitely needs to dump Hutchinson. They also need to listen to what Sparks said before he was made into a scapegoat, because those are literally the problems that have made the Leafs nothing more than a .500 team since January...

And Matthews is saying the same thing now, so hopefully coming from him they'll start taking things seriously.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I still struggle with managements logic when it comes to the back up goalie position.

Freddy Andersen and Curtis McElhinney formed a perfect combo that lead to Leafs team setting an all-time high in franchise points and wins record in a season in 2017-18

So then last year it was Sparks seen as the upgrade, and so they waived Hutchenson to the AHL after clearing waivers suggesting Sparks >> Hutch.

During the AHL Calder playoffs last year it was Kasimir Kaskisuo that started while Hutch held the clipboard as his backup, suggesting Kaskisuo >> Hutch.

So now this year the plan in 2019-20 was take your backup AHL goalie and make him your backup NHL goalie and this was to make the Leafs more Cup competitive in the process.

Trying to wrap ones brain around that management logic flow makes my head hurt.

I have no idea why they decided to keep Hutch. Maybe they wanted to give the guy with proven NHL experience a shot over the unproven, but likely better, option once again? Maybe they wanted the local guy to take the job over the Finnish guy? Maybe they felt Kaskisuo needed to prove that he was able to sustain his run from the end of last year (which by all purposes, he has).

Honestly, it could have just been a way for Dubas to appease Babcock. Dubas was probably hoping Neuvirth could show enough to be the backup, but when that failed, he went with the more proven option so Babcock did not have a reason to complain again...

Well so far it's going about as well as I expected it to go with Hutch in net.

 

[Ambassador Bridge]

Pucks that hit him right in the glove seem to land at his feet causing rebounds.



Leafs now have 0 of 6 potential points with Hutchinson in net.

Leafs are still chasing the McElhinney mistake now 2 years later.

Not to nit-pick but Leafs got a point in the loss to Montreal.

 

[namttebih]

Johnny Berns at 50%?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Johnny Berns at 50%?

Are we throwing out options right now? Bernier is too expensive.

G Adin Hill​

LW/RW Nic Petan​

7th round pick 2022


G Michael Hutchinson*

*After he clears waivers. Jets could use some goalie depth, so why not a familiar face for a low price?

Hill is a really underrated goalie. His numbers don't jump off of any pages, but I think he's the perfect under the radar addition for the Leafs.

This is what was said about him before the 2015 draft (where he went in the 3rd round).

"Playing on a powerhouse team like the Portland Winterhawks means that Hill might not always be challenged as much as goalies on other teams, but this season he's been head and shoulders above any other goalie that's dressed for his squad. Great natural size at 6'4″ yet still able to move around the crease well."

"Adin Hill is a pretty intriguing goaltending prospect. He's big, he's athletic, and he's a competitor. Hill had a tremendous rookie season with the Portland Winterhawks in the WHL, posting a 2.81 goals against average, a .921 save-percentage, and two shutouts among his 31 wins. While some will say that Hill's stats and success are a byproduct of the team playing in front of him, one thing you can't argue is his maturity and mental toughness."

"Hill is able to fight through traffic to locate pucks, keeps rebounds close to him and remains poised when opponents fire a ton of shots in a short amount of time. His athleticism also is better than a lot of the goaltenders in this class. Hill led all WHL goaltenders in save percentage during the regular season."

Now why would Arizona want to give him up?



After they claimed Comrie from Winnipeg, he was apparently a little bit pissed off. I mean I don't blame the guy; he came in and was a big help after Raanta went down, and then they claim a guy from another organization to take a job that he could have easily filled. They also have Ivan Prosvetov in their organization whom they likely view as their goalie of the future (plus a couple of guys in the ECHL who really should be in the AHL). Hill requires waivers next year. Meanwhile Petan is cost controlled and a guy who could help out their scoring woes a bit, or at least be a high quality scoring depth in the AHL and a top callup for the NHL... Something they need more than Hill right now.

Obviously this is a pretty big risk for the Leafs. Going with a guy who has a sub .900 career NHL save percentage (*on Arizona) and is still quite young and unproven. He also hasn't exactly torched the AHL either (*Tuscon isn't an amazing team). But this is a guy who is only 23, seems to be the complete package, could be acquired for cheap, and at this point is worth the risk over a clear dud in Hutchinson. I'd give him a shot, and worst case, we are in the same spot we are in right now.

 

[namttebih]

Are we throwing out options right now? Bernier is too expensive.

G Adin Hill​

LW/RW Nic Petan​

7th round pick 2022


G Michael Hutchinson*

*After he clears waivers. Jets could use some goalie depth, so why not a familiar face for a low price?

Hill is a really underrated goalie. His numbers don't jump off of any pages, but I think he's the perfect under the radar addition for the Leafs.

This is what was said about him before the 2015 draft (where he went in the 3rd round).










Now why would Arizona want to give him up?



After they claimed Comrie from Winnipeg, he was apparently a little bit pissed off. I mean I don't blame the guy; he came in and was a big help after Raanta went down, and then they claim a guy from another organization to take a job that he could have easily filled. They also have Ivan Prosvetov in their organization whom they likely view as their goalie of the future (plus a couple of guys in the ECHL who really should be in the AHL). Hill requires waivers next year. Meanwhile Petan is cost controlled and a guy who could help out their scoring woes a bit, or at least be a high quality scoring depth in the AHL and a top callup for the NHL... Something they need more than Hill right now.

Obviously this is a pretty big risk for the Leafs. Going with a guy who has a sub .900 career NHL save percentage (*on Arizona) and is still quite young and unproven. He also hasn't exactly torched the AHL either (*Tuscon isn't an amazing team). But this is a guy who is only 23, seems to be the complete package, could be acquired for cheap, and at this point is worth the risk over a clear dud in Hutchinson. I'd give him a shot, and worst case, we are in the same spot we are in right now.

I'm just thinking that at this point we don't want a high risk/ high reward type of guy.

Bernier is a known commodity. NHL proven goalie that has come to terms as being a backup. At 50% it's not unreasonable if we're shedding Petan and Hutch. It's a wash as far as the cap is concerned.

 

[biotk]

If the situation remains the same - with the backup playing the second game of every back-to-back and little else 19 seasons out of 20 the backup is going to get demolished, lose confidence and the fans are going to want to run them out of town (that 1 out of 20 seasons will be mostly luck).

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I'm just thinking that at this point we don't want a high risk/ high reward type of guy.

Bernier is a known commodity. NHL proven goalie that has come to terms as being a backup. At 50% it's not unreasonable if we're shedding Petan and Hutch. It's a wash as far as the cap is concerned.

Yes, but we also have Dermott and Hyman coming back soon. How are we fitting in that extra 3 mill in salary? You can send down Spezza, Shore and Gravel and still need Petan's salary to get the rest of the way. 1.5 mill is too pricey, and plus I doubt Bernier is going to be cheap. 2 years at 50% retention; Detroit is going to want a lot more than Bernier's worth.

Also the risk is Petan. That's not exactly a high risk. The reward however is a guy who was once considered Arizona's goalie of the future. Sure he may totally flop, but I don't think the chances of that happening are any more likely than continuing to watch Hutch struggle game after game. At least here we have the benefit of a hungry young goalie with upside getting a shot to prove himself, and worst case, we are in the exact same spot as we were before: looking for a better backup.

The Leafs can make those moves today if they wanted, and if by the TDL something better than Hill comes up, they can still pursue that move. This is at least a move with the intent of trying to fix a weakness.

 

[jrgtml67]

FyI to some posters. This thread was created before last nights game.

While Hutch cant be faulted 100% for the loss, his rebounds, puck work and lack of stopping the play ( believe the 3rd goal gaff) cant happen. Looking at the bench when Hutch has played Mike looks less then happy, and looks like hes saying (hes not what I want but I have no choice).

Something has to give here.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

FyI to some posters. This thread was created before last nights game.

While Hutch cant be faulted 100% for the loss, his rebounds, puck work and lack of stopping the play ( believe the 3rd goal gaff) cant happen. Looking at the bench when Hutch has played Mike looks less then happy, and looks like hes saying (hes not what I want but I have no choice).

Something has to give here.

It was the same thing last year. I think even Dubas knows the guy isn't an NHL caliber backup, but he's the best we can afford right now. Who knows, maybe by November the Leafs give Kaskisuo a shot. It's shades of Sparks, but damn he's improved a lot (and finally recovered from that nagging groin injury) since January... And two years ago he was already one of the AHL's top goalies.

I mean what do they have to lose? Hutch is 0-2-1. All three games he has not been good enough. You can't do much worse than that.

 

[Madap]

Our backup is literally the least of our problems. Its a backup goalie. Who cares.

Dubas/Babcock need to work on fixing our defense first. Fix that, and it won't matter if Andersen goes down for a period of time. We'd be fine. Come playoffs, our backup won't even play.

If Babcock is really worried about constantly losing the second half of back to backs because of his backup goalie, then he should get his head out of his a** and play Hutch first if its against a worse team. Wouldn't have helped these past two games, but we would have swept our previous back to backs and no one here would be complaining that Hutch has no wins.

 

[Buds17]

If the situation remains the same - with the backup playing the second game of every back-to-back and little else 19 seasons out of 20 the backup is going to get demolished, lose confidence and the fans are going to want to run them out of town (that 1 out of 20 seasons will be mostly luck).

I might be remembering wrong, but I feel like the issue of Andersen getting the first game and the backup the second game has taken on a life of its own thus far this season. It was the gameplan with Andersen and McElhinney, Sparks and now Hutchinson. Why that is (the current scrutiny), I don't know.

I believe there are 14 back-to-backs this season. Andersen would set a career high with 68 starts, so I imagine the backup will see more games than just under that scenario. Hutchinson has three seasons of a quality workload (38/30/28 games), but the most recent was about three seasons ago. Starts and wins are going to have to come from somewhere (whether that's one or multiple options).