Backstrom vs Tavares (read op)

[Sky04]

It's pretty clear you aren't a hockey guy, and more of just a Lightning guy. People do bring up things like this when discussing players from the past. There are many great "what-if" scenarios brought up around my living room while we watch the games.

We get it - you don't like JT. Doesn't change the fact that he's right there beside Stamkos and Backstrom.

Where did I disagree? You seem to be taking this so personally you've begun to make up arguments on your own It's pretty clear any of your "scenarios" brought up come with a strong bias.

 

[Merrrlin]

Seems like you're taking it personal because I'm bursting your little bubble. Any Islander fan can tell you he was not the best defensive player and definitely not on Backstrom's level in that regards, it's only a "drive by shot" because you don't want to accept it or have this perception of Tavares that's not true.

Funny, you'd think of all the priase you have for Tavares and him in your avatar you'd know that he's not 30 yet and just finished his most recent season at 28 years old.......... but hey gotta spin that argument anyway you can right That's a good laugh.

Oh, he's 29....my bad?

And why are you acting like he didn't improve last year on his career numbers? You do realize he put up 9 more goals and was 3rd in the rocket race? And he had a career year for points years after his prime?

How many star players have their best years at 29? I would wager not many.

Where did I disagree? You seem to be taking this so personally you've begun to make up arguments on your own It's pretty clear any of your "scenarios" brought up come with a strong bias.

Ahh, the laugh emoji. A classic move by someone who knows they are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Sky04]

Oh, he's 29....my bad?

And why are you acting like he didn't improve last year on his career numbers? You do realize he put up 9 more goals and was 3rd in the rocket race? And he had a career year for points years after his prime?

How many star players have their best years at 29? I would wager not many.



Ahh, the laugh emoji. A classic move by someone who knows they are barking up the wrong tree.

You might want to go hit up the history of hockey and read about peak ages of players and production, because if you haven't guessed it already.. you're wrong again! Btw he just turned 29, his finished his most recent "career best" at 28, you keep trying to move the goalpost to deflect, it's very deserving of the emoji

Tavares is statistically dead smack in his prime, saying that he's "years past his prime" is like saying that he's "in his 30's" when, unless you're trying to spin an argument with false facts is both wrong.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm really not convinced Tavares actually is the better player.

 

[Merrrlin]

You might want to go hit up the history of hockey and read about peak ages of players and production, because if you haven't guessed it already.. you're wrong again! Btw he just turned 29, his finished his most recent "career best" at 28, you keep trying to move the goalpost to deflect, it's very deserving of the emoji

Tavares is statistically dead smack in his prime, saying that he's "years past his prime" is like saying that he's "in his 30's" when, unless you're trying to spin an argument with false facts is both wrong.

I decided to look into this.

It looks like many recent stars of the last decade had their best seasons around age 23ish, with only Stamkos, Kane and Tavares having their best years at 28 or later. It just so happens that they also had the most support in those years for Tavares and Stamkos, whereas with Kane...he just seems to be aging like fine wine. Having an elite goal scorer in Debrincat on his wing probably helps.

Injuries obviously skew the numbers in some places, but it's an overall picture. The ppg version was impossible to read due to injuries.

Many of those guys had better years at a younger age despite league wide scoring being lower.

 

[Incognito]

It’s close. While Backstrom probably has the better resume, I believe that Tavares is the better player (and I thought that before he became a Leaf, so this isn’t a case of homerism). There’s a reason Tavares has been nominated for the Hart twice in his career.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Backstrom really easily

 

[Sky04]

I decided to look into this.

View attachment 265699

It looks like many recent stars of the last decade had their best seasons around age 23ish, with only Stamkos, Kane and Tavares having their best years at 28 or later. It just so happens that they also had the most support in those years for Tavares and Stamkos, whereas with Kane...he just seems to be aging like fine wine. Having an elite goal scorer in Debrincat on his wing probably helps.

Injuries obviously skew the numbers in some places, but it's an overall picture. The ppg version was impossible to read due to injuries.

Many of those guys had better years at a younger age despite league wide scoring being lower.

"decided to look into this"

*picks sample size of 6 players*

, still wrong bud.

 

[Merrrlin]

"decided to look into this"

*picks sample size of 6 players*

, still wrong bud.

How long do you expect me to spend on this when you are responding like that? 6 of Tavares top peers seems like a good place to start.

 

[Critical13]

I decided to look into this.

View attachment 265699

It looks like many recent stars of the last decade had their best seasons around age 23ish, with only Stamkos, Kane and Tavares having their best years at 28 or later. It just so happens that they also had the most support in those years for Tavares and Stamkos, whereas with Kane...he just seems to be aging like fine wine. Having an elite goal scorer in Debrincat on his wing probably helps.

Injuries obviously skew the numbers in some places, but it's an overall picture. The ppg version was impossible to read due to injuries.

Many of those guys had better years at a younger age despite league wide scoring being lower.

Don’t sweat Sky. He has an arrogance which extends to everyone including Lightning fans.

As for the poll I went Tavares, but that’s more of a volume thing. Backstory definitely has a better peak. What an excellent pick he was

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It’s close. While Backstrom probably has the better resume, I believe that Tavares is the better player (and I thought that before he became a Leaf, so this isn’t a case of homerism). There’s a reason Tavares has been nominated for the Hart twice in his career.

I think the bolded is more due to the "good player on a bad team" narrative the media tends to push around awards time. If a mediocre team makes the playoffs, the media tends to push the narrative that their one star player carried the team on his back, even if that's not quite accurate. It's the same reason why Taylor Hall won a Hart, even though I don't think many would call him even a top 5 player that season.

 

[alg363636]

Tavares might be the better player (not really anything tangible to back that up) but at this point Backstrom definitely has the better career.

 

[Incognito]

I think the bolded is more due to the "good player on a bad team" narrative the media tends to push around awards time. If a mediocre team makes the playoffs, the media tends to push the narrative that their one star player carried the team on his back, even if that's not quite accurate. It's the same reason why Taylor Hall won a Hart, even though I don't think many would call him even a top 5 player that season.

I do agree with this. The media definitely looks for narratives and stories that they can attach to certain players each year, so I'm sure that had something to do with Tavares being nominated. At the same time though, take him off those Islanders teams, and where do they finish in the standings? I know they're making due just fine without him now, but I doubt that would have been the case in the years that he was a Hart nominee.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I do agree with this. The media definitely looks for narratives and stories that they can attach to certain players each year, so I'm sure that had something to do with Tavares being nominated. At the same time though, take him off those Islanders teams, and where do they finish in the standings? I know they're making due just fine without him now, but I doubt that would have been the case in the years that he was a Hart nominee.

I think Tavares was fully deserving of being one of the 2015 Hart finalists. Second in the league to Benn in points, lead the Isles in scoring by a mile, and the Isles finished in a playoff spot largely because of those things. Not only was he the Isles' best player that year, he performed like one of the best in the entire league, period.

Where I think one of his nominations was media narrative was the 2013 shortened season. The Islanders made the playoffs because they went on something like a 16-5 run to end the season, and most at the time attributed that run to how their second line was clicking (Bailey-Nielsen-Okposo). Tavares finished high in goals, but was waaaaaaaaaay back in points league wide. But the media made it sound like he carried that team to the playoff spot by performing like a Top 5 player in hockey.

Not saying he wasn't good both those years or was a passenger or whatever. Just that, at least in one of those seasons, I think he got the benefit of the "good player on bad team carried said bad team" narrative that you see pop up each season to justify an iffy choice for a player finishing top 3 or top 5 in Hart voting.

 

[POVERTY]

Tavares is the better hockey player but to date Backstrom wins better career

 

[Halla]

Backstrom had Ovi (a top 3 goalscorer in NHL history) and Carlson...Tavares will end up having Bailey and Leddy for 1/2 his career.

also lol at the comments about backstrom because he will have won a cup. by that logic Sammy Blais has had a better career than Joe thornton

 

[Halla]

Of course they're different questions... what kind of thinking is this? It's not semantic's it's literally asking something different altogether

Tell me, who has had the better career, Jonathan Toews or Steven Stamkos? Now, who has been the better player over their career? If your answer isn't the same then you're wrong.

Quality of play? Backstrom has a higher career PPG, over 100 playoff points and a Cup. Ask Tavares to take the trade for his career and he takes it every time.

Cherry pick much?

Backstrom 0.97
Tavares 0.94

Tavares has outscore backstrom by 13 and 14pts the last 2 seasons, so another year or so should even it out. Backstrom won a cup when he was older than Tavares is right now...JT has nearly a decade to get one. conveneient of you to talk about career ppg but then ignore tavares having the higher ppg in the playoffs.

also if you think toews has been the better player over his career than stamkos then SMH.

 

[Sky04]

Cherry pick much?

Backstrom 0.97
Tavares 0.94

Tavares has outscore backstrom by 13 and 14pts the last 2 seasons, so another year or so should even it out. Backstrom won a cup when he was older than Tavares is right now...JT has nearly a decade to get one. conveneient of you to talk about career ppg but then ignore tavares having the higher ppg in the playoffs.

also if you think toews has been the better player over his career than stamkos then SMH.

Do you even know what cherry picking is? Thanks for pointing out that Backstrom's career PPG is higher than Tavares' and that he's older to boot which makes his number more impressive. Cherry picking is using Tavares' lowly 30 game sample vs Backstrom's 100+ playoff games. Either way 100+ career playoff points and a cup tramples anything Tavares has done.

Also, re-read what I wrote and what I quoted. You just proved exactly what I was trying to say, thanks.

 

[mm11]

from my dime store eyes it looks JT has lost a step already. Have to go with the guy with a cup and a better playoff resume

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

lol at the comments about backstrom because he will have won a cup. by that logic Sammy Blais has had a better career than Joe thornton

LOL at thinking Blais - Thornton could serve as a comparable. At least Backstrom and Tavares are 2 high level players that have played a good number of games in the league. Blais has 50!
If I had the ability to choose which career I would have had in the NHL (so far...) between Backstrom and Tavares, I would take the one with the Cup ainec even if Tavares is a slightly better player. The Cup more than makes up for the slight difference in talent.

 

[Hustlr]

Backstrom career to date.

Tavares individual ability.

Tavares doesn’t need a ton of success to pass Backstrom in career success imo.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

also lol at the comments about backstrom because he will have won a cup. by that logic Sammy Blais has had a better career than Joe thornton

In this case, Cups is being used as a deciding factor between two relatively equal players. Your example is horrible because there's literally zero comparison between the two minus one having a Cup.

 

[bigbabybuda]

It is very close in terms of who is the better hockey player. Backstrom is the far superior defensive player over the course of their careers. That has gotten a little closer over the years as Tavares has improved but it's still Backstrom. Tavares is the better offensive player and by a pretty good margin. They're pretty close in ppg with Tavares being the far better scorer. There is a premium on goals period. Tavares payed with nothing but garbage his entire career basically until last year while Backstrom played on one of the top 4 teams of the last decade+ with one of top 3 goal scorer of all time (I think he is the best but I'll be conservative). If you dont think that highly affects the amount of points they both scored you're incapable of a critical thought and probably shouldn't be leaving house without a helmet.

Backstrom has had the better career up until this point though. Not the better player though.

 

[hockeyguru]

backstrom pretty easily. he's got the cup ring, hit triple digits in points in a season. tavares has 1 playoff series win and a career high of 88 points.

 

[valet]

backstrom, but if tavares ever gets it done in the playoffs they'll have almost identical resumes