Babcock's departure leads to Larkin signing

[Frk It]

Oh, so you're saying he should have been up full time to start the 2012-13 season? Alllllllrighty then.

Hand count, is that opinion of IC's shared very widely? It's fine if it is, just... wow. Hadn't run across that particular one before.

I second his opinion.

I actually do so because of the reason you listed in your most recent response to my last post:

To me, the only way to look at this is to say that the talent drives the opportunity.

 

[Yemack]

Definitely true. Smith could have been worse off had he been allowed to stay with the team in his first run, where he looked excellent. But then again, we have a 26 year old Smith who is *fighting* for a spot on our bottom pair. So, what was there really to lose?

hold on there. Smith never really looked 'excellent' or anything close to it in his first couple showings with the big club. I remember he did try to show off some stuffs.. which actually showed how immature his game was at. I was thinking that it was going to take a LONG LONG time for him to turn into a serviceable D man... if ever.

I think the organization done enough to accommodate Smith. If anyone were to complain about Wings 'overripe' development system, it shouldn't be Smith IMO. I dont think Wings, holland or babcock has derailed a super stars career. Right now, Smith is just about at where I expected him to be if he worked hard improving through some hard lessons on the way. Well actually I bought into Smith hype little bit in the begining so I guess I'm a bit disappointed but compared to where he was, he's progressed well.

We can make a case about Tatar but we can't argue about the result.

I wanted Nyquist on the team after his first exhibition game and I still think it was bit of mistake to have him down in GR bit too long. But honestly, I dont even care at this point because it worked out well for everyone.

 

[Frk It]

hold on there. Smith never really looked 'excellent' or anything close to it in his first couple showings with the big club. I remember he did try to show off some stuffs.. which actually showed how immature his game was at. I was thinking that it was going to take a LONG LONG time for him to turn into a serviceable D man... if ever.

I think the organization done enough to accommodate Smith. If anyone were to complain about Wings 'overripe' development system, it shouldn't be Smith IMO. I dont think Wings, holland or babcock has derailed a super stars career. Right now, Smith is just about at where I expected him to be if he worked hard improving through some hard lessons on the way. Well actually I bought into Smith hype little bit in the begining so I guess I'm a bit disappointed but compared to where he was, he's progressed well.

We can make a case about Tatar but we can't argue about the result.

I wanted Nyquist on the team after his first exhibition game and I still think it was bit of mistake to have him down in GR bit too long. But honestly, I dont even care at this point because it worked out well for everyone.

2011-2012 when Smith was called up was probably the best I have ever seen from him. 7 points in 14 games and just looked downright dynamic offensively. Also looked really, really fast. He just looked dangerous in a way that I have yet to see again at the NHL level.

So I would have to disagree with you.

 

[Henkka]

Would have loved to see Nyquist playing 4th line center instead of Emmerton with 9 minutes of Ice-Time.

Would have loved to see that and that's a move which makes GMs and coaches unemployed.

 

[Yemack]

2011-2012 when Smith was called up was probably the best I have ever seen from him. 7 points in 14 games and just looked downright dynamic offensively. Also looked really, really fast. He just looked dangerous in a way that I have yet to see again at the NHL level.

So I would have to disagree with you.

Im not sure if it was you but there were couple on the forum who were signing his praise. I remember Fugu was one.

 

[Henkka]

TATAR WAS NOT ON THE OPENING NIGHT ROSTER IN 13-14 SEASON. HE WAS HEALTHY SCRATCH AND WAS SO FOR 8 OF THE FIRST 9 GAMES TO START THE SEASON

So?

Tatar had all the time to hit the gym and build better overall condition which is usually biggest part young NHLr. He was not spitting on the roof, he did work as hard as hell to become a better NHLr, when he didn't have that game wear on for a 3-week period.

If you don't play, that time is not wasted totally. Then you train. He still got played a huge load of games.

The World didn't end on that day and not in the near future.

 

[InjuredChoker]

So?

Tatar had all the time to hit the gym and build better overall condition which is usually biggest part young NHLr. He was not spitting on the roof, he did work as hard as hell to become a better NHLr, when he didn't have that game wear on for a 3-week period.

If you don't play, that time is not wasted totally. Then you train. He still got played a huge load of games.

The World didn't end on that day and not in the near future.

no one suggested it ended the world. there other ways to build conditioning to play like NHLer. his preseason games certainly didn't indicate that lack of fitness was an issue. it did so though, for few other players who played ahead of him in those first 8 of 9 games to start the season.

and the point was that tatar didn't really get to play ahead of nyquist and there was no cap space to bring up nyquist. you remember that and did the math multiple times.

 

[Henkka]

and the point was that tatar didn't really get to play ahead of nyquist and there was no cap space to bring up nyquist. you remember that and did the math multiple times.

Yeah that was the Sammy-case. Waiving Samuelsson (900k more space and a roster spot) would have been easy fix on that 2013-14 season but because the contract was multiyear & +35, cap help was only 100k. That is still the biggest mistake in my honest opinion Holland has did with cap, at 2012 free agency. Multi-year deal to Sammy and then guy is a injury mess at 2012-13 and refuses to be bought out at 2013, maybe faking an injury during that buyout window.

We would not have any problems with cap if Sammy would have accept the compliance buyout. Nyquist up from the start. Tootoo would have been normal buyout later, but with less side effects.

But people are still blaming Cleary, that Cleary pushed Nyquist down at 2013-14. They didn't even compete for the same role, so Cleary had nothing to do with it. Cleary is the net-front grinder, Nyquist is scoring winger. Babcock wanted his grinder back and got him.

Sammy was the guy whose spot as a scoring winger would have opened the spot for Nyquist, but he was still there with 3M caphit. He did injure himself pretty fast, and then Gus was called up, and rest is history.

Buyout way or injury way, Holland did find his way. Everything points to Sammy.

 

[Frk It]

Yeah that was the Sammy-case. Waiving Samuelsson (900k more space and a roster spot) would have been easy fix on that 2013-14 season but because the contract was multiyear & +35, cap help was only 100k. That is still the biggest mistake in my honest opinion Holland has did with cap, at 2012 free agency. Multi-year deal to Sammy and then guy is a injury mess at 2012-13 and refuses to be bought out at 2013, maybe faking an injury during that buyout window.

We would not have any problems with cap if Sammy would have accept the compliance buyout. Nyquist up from the start. Tootoo would have been normal buyout later, but with less side effects.

But people are still blaming Cleary, that Cleary pushed Nyquist down at 2013-14. They didn't even compete for the same role, so Cleary had nothing to do with it. Cleary is the net-front grinder, Nyquist is scoring winger. Babcock wanted his grinder back and got him.

Sammy was the guy whose spot as a scoring winger would have opened the spot for Nyquist, but he was still there with 3M caphit. He did injure himself pretty fast, and then Gus was called up, and rest is history.

Buyout way or injury way, Holland did find his way. Everything points to Sammy.

The only thing is, you can't act like they didn't know what was going on with Samuelsson. They absolutely did.

Here is an article from September 3rd, 2013

It was the latter that lingered into the offseason and prevented the Red Wings from exercising one of their compliance buyouts on Samuelsson had they determined he was a candidate for that option.

Now, Samuelsson is finally feeling good entering the final year of a two-year contract that will pay him $3 million this season.

"It's all behind me now," said Samuelsson, who is in his second stint with the Red Wings after signing as a free agent last summer. "I feel good about this year. It was a frustrating year (last season).

"I'm 100 percent. I feel good. I still believe in myself. I feel like I can play some good hockey.

So as of September 3rd, they KNEW that

1) Samuelsson was not eligible to be bought out
2) Samuelsson was healthy, or in his own words "100 percent", so putting him on LTIR was not a viable option.

And then they went ahead and signed Cleary on September 12th regardless.

So you can keep trying to spin this angle, but they knew all of this stuff with Samuelsson.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/09/healthy_mikael_samuelsson_know.html

 

[ShelbyZ]

Yeah that was the Sammy-case. Waiving Samuelsson (900k more space and a roster spot) would have been easy fix on that 2013-14 season but because the contract was multiyear & +35, cap help was only 100k. That is still the biggest mistake in my honest opinion Holland has did with cap, at 2012 free agency. Multi-year deal to Sammy and then guy is a injury mess at 2012-13 and refuses to be bought out at 2013, maybe faking an injury during that buyout window.

IMO, that entire summer was a mistake for Holland. He refused to pay more than $3.2M a season for Hudler, but had no problem coughing up $3M for Samuelsson and $1.9M for Jordin Tootoo for multiple years... Along with Brunner and Nyquist (who Holland kept saying would be a regular the next season), it gave the team a big crowd up front. All that with a lockout looming that was supposed to bring changes that would punish frivolous UFA spending and burying contracts. Then two years for Colaiacovo was an absolute head scratcher.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

IMO, that entire summer was a mistake for Holland. He refused to pay more than $3.2M a season for Hudler, but had no problem coughing up $3M for Samuelsson and $1.9M for Jordin Tootoo for multiple years... Along with Brunner and Nyquist (who Holland kept saying would be a regular the next season), it gave the team a big crowd up front. All that with a lockout looming that was supposed to bring changes that would punish frivolous UFA spending and burying contracts. Then two years for Colaiacovo was an absolute head scratcher.

I loved those signings cause I didnt follow hockey at all then. Just watched the games not knowing Sammy was a pile of boo boo

 

[Henkka]

IMO, that entire summer was a mistake for Holland. He refused to pay more than $3.2M a season for Hudler, but had no problem coughing up $3M for Samuelsson and $1.9M for Jordin Tootoo for multiple years... Along with Brunner and Nyquist (who Holland kept saying would be a regular the next season), it gave the team a big crowd up front. All that with a lockout looming that was supposed to bring changes that would punish frivolous UFA spending and burying contracts. Then two years for Colaiacovo was an absolute head scratcher.

It was kind of cap trick to throw those multi-year deals, knowing that lockout is coming, throw quaranteed money for players, where caphit would have been just a number, but finally, players only got 45% less of real money from the 1st year.

The GRAND mistake was to throw a 2-year deal to +35 aged Sammy. With Colaiacovo and Tootoo you could sweep them a lot easier out (they were younger players), but if that kind of +35-contract becomes a mess, you can't do anything for it. Except LTIR. And we had to wait Sammy to injure himself, like he did.

Now, when Cleary has been +35, he has went with 1-year deals, and I'm sure this Sammy-case was already reminding Kenny not to **** with those +35 multi-years anymore.

My god what a case that was.

But I'm 100% if Holland writes a book after his career (like Devellano did), he mentions this thing. Sammy Voo-Doo doll.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Holland's book will consist of 30 chapters on how amazing Dan Cleary is.

If Larkin thinks Babcock leaving increases his odds of making the Wings, he is going to be in a for a big surprise when he is shipped off to GR no matter how good his performance at camp is.

If you can be sent down without having to clear waivers, you will be sent down.

 

[sean3250]

Holland's book will consist of 30 chapters on how amazing Dan Cleary is.

If Larkin thinks Babcock leaving increases his odds of making the Wings, he is going to be in a for a big surprise when he is shipped off to GR no matter how good his performance at camp is.

If you can be sent down without having to clear waivers, you will be sent down.

Tell that to Sheahan and Jurco...

 

[14ari13]

I didn't even say Holland "screwed up" those prospects. I just gave a list of those I felt were in GR longer than necessary.

The only one in my list that I think the Wings "screwed up" would be Kindl, and I blame that more on Babcock than Holland.

At the end of the day we will never know what a different development path would have yielded, so it's hard to say who should or shouldn't have been developed a certain way. Nyquist and Tatar still came out really good players. Could they be even farther along as of today? Maybe. Could Smith be more than a bottom pair guy at 26? Maybe. I don't think the Wings screwed these guys up, I just wonder what the alternative would have been. Maybe it changed very little in the end. Well never know though.

I do not know how many posters remember, but Datsyuk actually had in his deal that he could not be sent down and he was 23. If I remember right.

I'm just ecstatic that we found what we believe to be our next franchise centre. Those are hard to find.

+1

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

hold on there. Smith never really looked 'excellent' or anything close to it in his first couple showings with the big club. I remember he did try to show off some stuffs.. which actually showed how immature his game was at. I was thinking that it was going to take a LONG LONG time for him to turn into a serviceable D man... if ever.

I think the organization done enough to accommodate Smith. If anyone were to complain about Wings 'overripe' development system, it shouldn't be Smith IMO. I dont think Wings, holland or babcock has derailed a super stars career. Right now, Smith is just about at where I expected him to be if he worked hard improving through some hard lessons on the way. Well actually I bought into Smith hype little bit in the begining so I guess I'm a bit disappointed but compared to where he was, he's progressed well.

We can make a case about Tatar but we can't argue about the result.

I wanted Nyquist on the team after his first exhibition game and I still think it was bit of mistake to have him down in GR bit too long. But honestly, I dont even care at this point because it worked out well for everyone.

Smith looked very good in his initial callup. Really a couple things have happened to him. He has had very inconsistent partners, his longest stretch is with a guy his game doesn't mesh with at all in Quincey.

That callup he played with Kronwall which has been consistently where Smith has looked his best. Part of this is Kronwall's superior passing ability to the rest of the D-man allows Smith to play faster.

Another unfortunate event for Smith was he was on the wrong end of Brendan Shanahan trying to show no favorites would be played dropping the hammer on him as a first time offender on a hit. It meant he really couldn't be on the roster and he lost the opening time in the AHL and still had an NHL suspension which doesn't make sense, I understand the rule but it seems silly sometimes for the AHL to uphold and NHL suspension and it not count fractionally towards games off at the NHL level.

Smith is not where we hoped he would be. His skating seemed to get a little worse at some point. His mean streak disappeared to some extent with a big open ice hit on Ben Smith. Also as a guy that is willing to scrap and adds that dimension he has had two fairly fluky injuries while dropping them.

Smith looked like a star, he was very good in his initial callup. He was also the best of the superstar Badger D-man that litter the league, was an incredible player in GR. I really cannot put my finger on it, people keep saying he needs to earn more ice time. That is certainly the Detroit way and it is a hard model to argue with given the success. However, to not use Smith as a PP guy never made any sense. To have the 40 or 50 odd games Smith has looked good have a high percentage with Kronwall and ignore that doesn't make much sense.

You also had a lot of mixed messages from Babcock. Things like Smith shouldn't fight, Smitty should just concentrate on his own end.... Yada yada yada he never seemed to have a feel what made Smith so good at every other stop. I really still hope Blashill can tap into it.

I don't think there is a single player the Wings have mismanaged more than Brendan Smith in my years watching the team. Yes Smith has his share of the blame and as the player he should own the lions share. But the Wings and Babcock have not done him many favors either.

On Tatar earlier, I don't think he was ready until late March or early April of the season before he ran out of options. He was still a big work in progress, he learned a lot in his short callup where his play lagged considerably toward the end and the full year under Blashill. His game grew exponentially and his confidence soared for the tail-end of that season and post-season. He also played maybe his worst hockey right after the demotion so for that stretch he sunk back down the depth chart. Him being scratched to start the next season was inexcusable, but I think his development was handled perfectly outside of that.

 

[Winger98]

Have you seen what kind of turnaround they did this summer?

They HAVE NOTICED, that our past system of developing defencemen hasn't worked.

And what happened:

First of all, signed Todd Nelson to Grand Rapids who was praised by Oiler-guys of his ability to develop DEFENCEMEN at Oklahoma/Edmonton.

Got short-term help by signing UFA Mike Green, which kind of swept away the instant need (of latest wasted years) of a puckmoving leading defenceman.

Then they went to draft right-handed prospect defencemen like Saarijärvi and Holway, have signed Hicketts a year ago and now signed Russo. Getting talent from here and there.

Also called a bunch of undrafted righties to our development camp and some of them are joining our team as tryouts at Traverse City and at training camp.

So, it looks obvious that this summer, they did put a big "DEVELOP A GOD DAMN HOME-GROWN DEFENCEMAN" -program on the move.

We'll see the results in few years.

They know it hasn't worked, now they also acted. And I like what I see they are doing.

In a few years, good or bad.

Nelson's likely a shorter term fix than Green, and it's not going to matter how many guys we invite to camp if we still can't figure out how to move them up the ladder without them falling off the rungs on the way. Really, even the signing of Nelson doesn't necessarily reflect a change in the Wings' philosophy if they continue to develop their players in the same manner.

The Wings definitely moved to replenish the system and bring in more talent. Just hope it turns into something a bit better than the last group, for whatever reasons.

 

[sean3250]

Smith looked very good in his initial callup. Really a couple things have happened to him. He has had very inconsistent partners, his longest stretch is with a guy his game doesn't mesh with at all in Quincey.

That callup he played with Kronwall which has been consistently where Smith has looked his best. Part of this is Kronwall's superior passing ability to the rest of the D-man allows Smith to play faster.

Another unfortunate event for Smith was he was on the wrong end of Brendan Shanahan trying to show no favorites would be played dropping the hammer on him as a first time offender on a hit. It meant he really couldn't be on the roster and he lost the opening time in the AHL and still had an NHL suspension which doesn't make sense, I understand the rule but it seems silly sometimes for the AHL to uphold and NHL suspension and it not count fractionally towards games off at the NHL level.

Smith is not where we hoped he would be. His skating seemed to get a little worse at some point. His mean streak disappeared to some extent with a big open ice hit on Ben Smith. Also as a guy that is willing to scrap and adds that dimension he has had two fairly fluky injuries while dropping them.

Smith looked like a star, he was very good in his initial callup. He was also the best of the superstar Badger D-man that litter the league, was an incredible player in GR. I really cannot put my finger on it, people keep saying he needs to earn more ice time. That is certainly the Detroit way and it is a hard model to argue with given the success. However, to not use Smith as a PP guy never made any sense. To have the 40 or 50 odd games Smith has looked good have a high percentage with Kronwall and ignore that doesn't make much sense.

You also had a lot of mixed messages from Babcock. Things like Smith shouldn't fight, Smitty should just concentrate on his own end.... Yada yada yada he never seemed to have a feel what made Smith so good at every other stop. I really still hope Blashill can tap into it.

I don't think there is a single player the Wings have mismanaged more than Brendan Smith in my years watching the team. Yes Smith has his share of the blame and as the player he should own the lions share. But the Wings and Babcock have not done him many favors either.

On Tatar earlier, I don't think he was ready until late March or early April of the season before he ran out of options. He was still a big work in progress, he learned a lot in his short callup where his play lagged considerably toward the end and the full year under Blashill. His game grew exponentially and his confidence soared for the tail-end of that season and post-season. He also played maybe his worst hockey right after the demotion so for that stretch he sunk back down the depth chart. Him being scratched to start the next season was inexcusable, but I think his development was handled perfectly outside of that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Smith still has the potential to be the best defenseman in our organization once Kronwall slows down/retires. (Yes, better than Dekeyser).

He's produced better than all of our young guys at every step of the way (In the NCAA, AHL). He was very good at Wisconsin, and was the top defenseman on the team along with McDonagh.

He also did very well in the AHL all while being coached by good ole' Curt Fraser. And boy wasn't Fraser such a great coach, he sure did a good job of developing talent

He's proven way more than Ouellet has down in the AHL. Way more in fact. I've been starting to question Ouellet more and more as time has gone by. His offensive game has had trouble translating to the Pros. His skating bothers me as well. It's average at best. I even think that's a little generous.

Back to Smith. He did look excellent during the first call up. He's struggled since then, but whenever he does look good it's with Kronwall or during the playoffs. The kid can step his game up which is good. Whenever he'd look good with Kronner he'd get demoted. I'd wish Blash would play them together this year although it'll never happen. He's also gonna get screwed out of PP time with the Green signing too. It's too bad, I still think Smith has a lot to offer this team. Traits no one else on the backend really has.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Smith still has the potential to be the best defenseman in our organization once Kronwall slows down/retires. (Yes, better than Dekeyser).

He's produced better than all of our young guys at every step of the way (In the NCAA, AHL). He was very good at Wisconsin, and was the top defenseman on the team along with McDonagh.

He also did very well in the AHL all while being coached by good ole' Curt Fraser. And boy wasn't Fraser such a great coach, he sure did a good job of developing talent

He's proven way more than Ouellet has down in the AHL. Way more in fact. I've been starting to question Ouellet more and more as time has gone by. His offensive game has had trouble translating to the Pros. His skating bothers me as well. It's average at best. I even think that's a little generous.

Back to Smith. He did look excellent during the first call up. He's struggled since then, but whenever he does look good it's with Kronwall or during the playoffs. The kid can step his game up which is good. Whenever he'd look good with Kronner he'd get demoted. I'd wish Blash would play them together this year although it'll never happen. He's also gonna get screwed out of PP time with the Green signing too. It's too bad, I still think Smith has a lot to offer this team. Traits no one else on the backend really has.

Smith has loads of talent, he is on his last chance in Detroit and I hope it isn't tethered to Quincey while making the case.

I still believe in him, but I cannot knock those that don't anymore. It is going to be on Smith to get Blashill in his corner, he could never accomplish that with Babcock, but the change at coach represents a big chance for Smith.

 

[14ari13]

Smith looked very good in his initial callup. Really a couple things have happened to him. He has had very inconsistent partners, his longest stretch is with a guy his game doesn't mesh with at all in Quincey.

That callup he played with Kronwall which has been consistently where Smith has looked his best. Part of this is Kronwall's superior passing ability to the rest of the D-man allows Smith to play faster.

Another unfortunate event for Smith was he was on the wrong end of Brendan Shanahan trying to show no favorites would be played dropping the hammer on him as a first time offender on a hit. It meant he really couldn't be on the roster and he lost the opening time in the AHL and still had an NHL suspension which doesn't make sense, I understand the rule but it seems silly sometimes for the AHL to uphold and NHL suspension and it not count fractionally towards games off at the NHL level.

Smith is not where we hoped he would be. His skating seemed to get a little worse at some point. His mean streak disappeared to some extent with a big open ice hit on Ben Smith. Also as a guy that is willing to scrap and adds that dimension he has had two fairly fluky injuries while dropping them.

Smith looked like a star, he was very good in his initial callup. He was also the best of the superstar Badger D-man that litter the league, was an incredible player in GR. I really cannot put my finger on it, people keep saying he needs to earn more ice time. That is certainly the Detroit way and it is a hard model to argue with given the success. However, to not use Smith as a PP guy never made any sense. To have the 40 or 50 odd games Smith has looked good have a high percentage with Kronwall and ignore that doesn't make much sense.

You also had a lot of mixed messages from Babcock. Things like Smith shouldn't fight, Smitty should just concentrate on his own end.... Yada yada yada he never seemed to have a feel what made Smith so good at every other stop. I really still hope Blashill can tap into it.

I don't think there is a single player the Wings have mismanaged more than Brendan Smith in my years watching the team. Yes Smith has his share of the blame and as the player he should own the lions share. But the Wings and Babcock have not done him many favors either.

On Tatar earlier, I don't think he was ready until late March or early April of the season before he ran out of options. He was still a big work in progress, he learned a lot in his short callup where his play lagged considerably toward the end and the full year under Blashill. His game grew exponentially and his confidence soared for the tail-end of that season and post-season. He also played maybe his worst hockey right after the demotion so for that stretch he sunk back down the depth chart. Him being scratched to start the next season was inexcusable, but I think his development was handled perfectly outside of that.

You forgot that Smith was our best player in the playoffs vs Boston.

 

[hot dog]

IMO, that entire summer was a mistake for Holland. He refused to pay more than $3.2M a season for Hudler, but had no problem coughing up $3M for Samuelsson and $1.9M for Jordin Tootoo for multiple years... Along with Brunner and Nyquist (who Holland kept saying would be a regular the next season), it gave the team a big crowd up front. All that with a lockout looming that was supposed to bring changes that would punish frivolous UFA spending and burying contracts. Then two years for Colaiacovo was an absolute head scratcher.

That summer was hilarious. I wasn't registered yet but I was reading these forums pretty regularly and I remember people joking about Kenny bringing Sammy back then instantly almost everyone agreed on how awful the signing was when it broke. Kind of like Cleary last year, but without the whole spectacle of the situation. Tootoo was a little different... people generally liked that contract and thought Kenny did well. The Coliacovo one was kind of out of left field and later in the process iirc, but people were kind of meh to it.

That said, the consensus did seem ready to move on from Hudler like how they did with Fil... might have just been more accepting fate though because the writing was clearly on the wall.

 

[Yemack]

Smith looked very good in his initial callup. Really a couple things have happened to him. He has had very inconsistent partners, his longest stretch is with a guy his game doesn't mesh with at all in Quincey.

That callup he played with Kronwall which has been consistently where Smith has looked his best. Part of this is Kronwall's superior passing ability to the rest of the D-man allows Smith to play faster.

Another unfortunate event for Smith was he was on the wrong end of Brendan Shanahan trying to show no favorites would be played dropping the hammer on him as a first time offender on a hit. It meant he really couldn't be on the roster and he lost the opening time in the AHL and still had an NHL suspension which doesn't make sense, I understand the rule but it seems silly sometimes for the AHL to uphold and NHL suspension and it not count fractionally towards games off at the NHL level.

Smith is not where we hoped he would be. His skating seemed to get a little worse at some point. His mean streak disappeared to some extent with a big open ice hit on Ben Smith. Also as a guy that is willing to scrap and adds that dimension he has had two fairly fluky injuries while dropping them.

Smith looked like a star, he was very good in his initial callup. He was also the best of the superstar Badger D-man that litter the league, was an incredible player in GR. I really cannot put my finger on it, people keep saying he needs to earn more ice time. That is certainly the Detroit way and it is a hard model to argue with given the success. However, to not use Smith as a PP guy never made any sense. To have the 40 or 50 odd games Smith has looked good have a high percentage with Kronwall and ignore that doesn't make much sense.

You also had a lot of mixed messages from Babcock. Things like Smith shouldn't fight, Smitty should just concentrate on his own end.... Yada yada yada he never seemed to have a feel what made Smith so good at every other stop. I really still hope Blashill can tap into it.

I don't think there is a single player the Wings have mismanaged more than Brendan Smith in my years watching the team. Yes Smith has his share of the blame and as the player he should own the lions share. But the Wings and Babcock have not done him many favors either.

On Tatar earlier, I don't think he was ready until late March or early April of the season before he ran out of options. He was still a big work in progress, he learned a lot in his short callup where his play lagged considerably toward the end and the full year under Blashill. His game grew exponentially and his confidence soared for the tail-end of that season and post-season. He also played maybe his worst hockey right after the demotion so for that stretch he sunk back down the depth chart. Him being scratched to start the next season was inexcusable, but I think his development was handled perfectly outside of that.

Lets get few things straight. It isn't that Smith doesn't mesh well with Quincey (which is true by the way) it is that Smith needs a specific type of partner because of his supposed playstyle. The reason he looked great with Kronwall is because Kronner is so versatile he can see what Smith is doing and can kind of accommodate for him because Smith aren't really versatile. (he's gotten better but still got some ways to go).

You are only focusing on his offensive flair which is usually a mistake alot of fans make of when evaluating a player. Yes Smith did show, at time somewhat deliberately, his offensive skating in his couple showings with the Wings. But there was a one big problem with him which still rings true to this day. His other part of the game, especially game management was pretty bad... and to be honest, it looked, at times, very amateurish. When he first came up, I thought he was one of the most clueless D man at times in Wings uniform and was thinking that he was not even remotely close to being ready. If he kept playing, there is no doubt in my mind, the other team would have focused on him to create turnover and he would have been eaten alive because his game was not at NHL level yet. Babcock saying Smith should focus working on his game in our zone was not really criticism per say, it was more like telling him the sky is blue. Maybe it is true some other coach might have used him differently. If there is one thing Babcock didnt like was having a seriously flawed card on his hand even if that card had some value on other area. Still being a defenseman is pretty much all about dependability unless you have beyond gifted level offensive ability like Karlsson who by the way looked like a defensive genius during WJC. I doubt he would see more ice time under any other coaches.

Anyways, in saying that, I still have bit of Smith hype left in me and hoping Blash can turn Smith into a more productive player. Smith isn't going to turn into defensive star... you know, I know, everyone knows it is true. Still he's got some weapons that supposedly is very good... I kinda believe that. It's too bad the ice hockey rink is too small. If it was at least twice as big, hockey would need 3D on ice and Smith could have been a good rover D.

And to elaborate bit further on Tatar. He did try his best to show his good side when he first got called up. But I think there was a concern that that was just initial excitement and adrenaline pumpin him up. I also did not think Tatar was physically strong enough to handle 82 game schedule of NHL... but I wasn't really watching him closely so maybe I'm wrong. Overall it did seem he debuted quarter to half a season later than expected but not really a huge mistake of any sorts IMO.

 

[Frk It]

Larkin put on 10 lbs this summer, worked out with Glendening

 

[Henkka]

Larkin put on 10 lbs this summer, worked out with Glendening

Good. Better to put 10 lbs with Glendy, than with Byfuglien...

So, Larkin went from 190 lbs --> to 200 lbs ?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Good. Better to put 10 lbs with Glendy, than with Byfuglien...

So, Larkin went from 190 lbs --> to 200 lbs ?

No way of really knowing, but yeah, I think he is somewhere in the neighborhood of 200lbs at present.