News Article: Babcock to Toronto - for all the monies

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Frankly im not surprised at all. Personally I wasn't expecting him to come here, it was just a nice pipedream.

 

[Cherpak]

In the end as long as the puppet for Morehouse is the GM nothing will change. Morehouse will use his political background to spin how the injuries were the root cause for yet another poor season and try to dupe the STHs into coming back. Poor ********.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

In the end as long as the puppet for Morehouse is the GM nothing will change. Morehouse will use his political background to spin how the injuries were the root cause for yet another poor season and try to dupe the STHs into coming back. Poor ********.

This is true. Morehouse is the real issue in the organization.

I really don't think STHers give a **** about what excuse the Pens are going to give. The on ice product was so bad last year and even die hard fans are fed up.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

You can't say Johnston could win Gold with Canada in a breeze because Bylsma had a roster just as talented that got blown up in the Silver Game.

As far as I see, all you need to do to compare Johnston with Babcock is examine penalty minutes from this year and the Wings penalty minutes from the past decade. I wouldn't fire Johnston either, and his system is perfect for the players we have, but there's no doubt who the better coach and motivator is (No disrespect to Johnston)

Team USA in 2014 wasn't that good. In 2010, under Ron Wilson, it competed with Team Canada and "won" silver. I always root for USA, but some of the roster choices were questionable IMO, Canada will always be loaded, they're so loaded, Martin St. Louis didn't even make the team, and he only made it because Stamkos was injured. Canada has the best players in the league, they leave great players at home, USA brings the best they have to offer and still don't hold a candle to Team Canada. I think any Canadian with knowledge of the game can coach that team to a Gold medal, sure there is no guarantee but they are just stacked with talent, and they'll have McDavid in 2018 if NHL players go

However with that said, I agree that Babcock is the better coach, he's obviously in higher demand and rightfully so, that was never my argument. People are criticizing the Penguins for keeping Mike Johnston, Johnston is not the problem and Babcock isn't the solution is all I'm trying to say.

i dont hate this.

The Penguins will be fine with MJ.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this

Johnston really isn't in the top 10 list of the Pens problems. They have so many other issues other than him that negatively affect the organization/team.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

"Being fine" with an option is exactly what got the Penguins to go through the meteoric fall from potential NHL powerhouse year in and year out to barely limping into the playoffs.

It's about god damn time we bust our ***** at trying to find the best option with regard to everything; the front office, behind the bench, roster-wise.

Babcock is the best coach in the NHL, or at least he's in the top 3. Whether or not he favors vets like every single coach in the league does or not, he's a damn good coach with a resume that commands respect. Sid and Geno have huge respect and adoration for the guy, and it's mutual.

But nah, it's fine. We'll plod along with Mike "Bylsma in disguise" Johnston.

 

[71GenoMalkin]

Since Mike Babcock took over the Wings in the '05-06 season, no team has had a better record. per @TSNResearch.

Anybody in their right mind would swap HCMJ for Babcock. It's not even close. Will it happen? Probably not. But there is no denying it would be a massive upgrade.

While I don't think MJ did a horrible job, there is far too much coaching talent available or about to be available this off season to sit back and not actively pursue an upgrade. It's no different than your roster, if you can upgrade, you do it. If not, you are doing your team and fan base a disservice.

 

[66-30-33]

Not surprised. Clearly we are EASILY the worst run org, who needs the best coach in the game? can't even build around Crosby and Malkin. WHo needs good things.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Since Mike Babcock took over the Wings in the '05-06 season, no team has had a better record. per @TSNResearch.

Anybody in their right mind would swap HCMJ for Babcock. It's not even close. Will it happen? Probably not. But there is no denying it would be a massive upgrade.

While I don't think MJ did a horrible job, there is far too much coaching talent available or about to be available this off season to sit back and not actively pursue an upgrade. It's no different than your roster, if you can upgrade, you do it. If not, you are doing your team and fan base a disservice.

Here's what's wrong with the record argument, how did we feel about Bylsma? He reached 250 wins faster than any NHL coach in history, and I believe has the most wins of any other coach in Penguins history, with that on his resume, why on earth would we fire the guy?

Yes, anyone would swap HCMJ for Babcock, however HCMJ only had one year with a new organization, and he only got to coach the full team for 3 months without everyone else dropping like flies, I know people are tired of the injury excuse but it's a valid reason for our shortcomings. To fire him after one season with an incomplete lineup would be ridiculous.

Timing is everything, maybe we should have kept Bylsma and Shero for one more year. We knew Babcock's contract expired this Summer, they didn't bring Johnston in to be a lame duck coach. He wouldn't have left a HC/GM job to be a lame duck to eventually be replaced with Mike Babcock.

I think coaching upgrades and roster upgrades are different. Players know they can be moved at any point, I guess coaches do also but new GM's and coaches have new visions for the team. Maybe a new coach doesn't see a need for Hornqvist and we end up trading him for another sniper, maybe he doesn't believe in a defensive break out and we trade all of our PMDs for big, slow, shot blocking defensemen. Obviously I'm exaggerating but introducing a new coach every year can't be easy. Ask the Oilers how Tom Renney, Ralph Kruger, Dallas Eakins and Todd Nelson worked out? Now they MIGHT finally get it right with Todd McLellan, that's 5 head coaches in 4 years, they're a rebuilding team, this is a win now team.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Anyone that doesn't think we're neck and neck with the worst run organizations is out to lunch.

Run down the checklist: Horrendous drafting/development, horrendous free agent signings, Sid and Geno still don't have wingers after a decade, roster is old/slow/small/soft, terrible asset management, terrible over-valuing of experience/leadership.

But hey, we sell jerseys and people go to the games, so whatever... Right? Stay the course.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Anyone that doesn't think we're neck and neck with the worst run organizations is out to lunch.

Run down the checklist: Horrendous drafting/development, horrendous free agent signings, Sid and Geno still don't have wingers after a decade, roster is old/slow/small/soft, terrible asset management, terrible over-valuing of experience/leadership.

A lot of those areas have improved.

Drafting/Development: Shero seemed to get the idea later on, we have some promising young players at every position. Murray and Jarry in goal, Maatta, Pouliot, Harrington on D, Kapanen and Sundqvist at forward. Those are just the notable names, we might have more good players in the pipeline, guys like Megna, Dumoulin, Wilson, Sheary, etc.

Free Agent signings: Jim Rutherford didn't do too bad in FA, Ehrhoff, Comeau, Downie, and Greiss all on one year deals not overpaying for any of them. Shero signed Scuderi which was bad, but other than that he was never really that active and when he was it was just for cheap depth because we couldn't afford anything better. Martin and Michalek weren't horrendous but they weren't great either, Martin ended up paying off, but Michalek sucked here.

Sid/Geno wingers: JR added a couple good ones in Perron and Hornqvist, and I'm willing to bet he adds a least one more this Summer, if not more. Shero brought guys in, we just didn't keep them, couldn't re-sign Hossa and traded Neal for Hornqvist.

Old/slow/small/soft roster: Under JR, the roster got younger and will continue to get younger. I would say we got faster but we need more speed, I don't think the Pens are too small overall but more size would be good, yes they are soff.

Asset management: I don't see it being terrible, we don't do anything that any other team doesn't do. Even the great Chicago Blackhawks traded a 1st for Antoine Vermette, a 2nd for Timonen, etc. The Penguins aren't a team who should be trading their rentals, the goal is to win the Cup, selling off our UFAs hurts us more than helps us. Shero was smart to trade Staal so he didn't leave for nothing, and I think we'll do the same with Sutter.

Over-valuing of experience/leadership: Other than the Despres trade, they didn't have a choice to play the youth and that may force their hand in the future. Pouliot and Dumoulin were given legit chances and impressed, so far JR said the young guys will have a chance, he'll solidify that claim by getting rid of the older players.

 

[Night Shift]

I don't agree with name calling someone an idiot just because they have a different opinion. I have two points, I agree that Moorehouse is a problem within and if it's true he is involved in player personell we are in trouble.

And secondly, I agree that we are not a well run organization however if we were to can Johnston for another coach after one year i think it makes us look worse (more of the clown show and gong show than we already are). Even to the point any future coach would want to come here. I think they need to show some sort of stability if they want to attract future prospects(coaches, GM's).

 

[Penguinator]

i dont hate this.

The Penguins will be fine with MJ.

Agreed but let's see if he can be successful again with a healthy roster next season. I really don't like what Tocchet did (or didn't do to be exact) though.

As for Babcock, i'm curious as to what HE will accomplish next season...

 

[Zbynek]

My season ticket rep.

I love how HF rumors start like this. My brother's on the waiting list and to the best of our knowledge, there's been no significant change in order (or way of knowing, by any means).

Whatever dude.

 

[Zbynek]

A lot of those areas have improved.

Drafting/Development: Shero seemed to get the idea later on, we have some promising young players at every position. Murray and Jarry in goal, Maatta, Pouliot, Harrington on D, Kapanen and Sundqvist at forward. Those are just the notable names, we might have more good players in the pipeline, guys like Megna, Dumoulin, Wilson, Sheary, etc.

Free Agent signings: Jim Rutherford didn't do too bad in FA, Ehrhoff, Comeau, Downie, and Greiss all on one year deals not overpaying for any of them. Shero signed Scuderi which was bad, but other than that he was never really that active and when he was it was just for cheap depth because we couldn't afford anything better. Martin and Michalek weren't horrendous but they weren't great either, Martin ended up paying off, but Michalek sucked here.

Sid/Geno wingers: JR added a couple good ones in Perron and Hornqvist, and I'm willing to bet he adds a least one more this Summer, if not more. Shero brought guys in, we just didn't keep them, couldn't re-sign Hossa and traded Neal for Hornqvist.

Old/slow/small/soft roster: Under JR, the roster got younger and will continue to get younger. I would say we got faster but we need more speed, I don't think the Pens are too small overall but more size would be good, yes they are soff.

Asset management: I don't see it being terrible, we don't do anything that any other team doesn't do. Even the great Chicago Blackhawks traded a 1st for Antoine Vermette, a 2nd for Timonen, etc. The Penguins aren't a team who should be trading their rentals, the goal is to win the Cup, selling off our UFAs hurts us more than helps us. Shero was smart to trade Staal so he didn't leave for nothing, and I think we'll do the same with Sutter.

Over-valuing of experience/leadership: Other than the Despres trade, they didn't have a choice to play the youth and that may force their hand in the future. Pouliot and Dumoulin were given legit chances and impressed, so far JR said the young guys will have a chance, he'll solidify that claim by getting rid of the older players.

I'm with you on all of that, but any time Mike ****ing Babcock becomes available, you kick the tires on him. He's one of the undisputed best hockey coaches of all time and a JR statement "nope, we're good" is frustrating no matter how you look at it.

I actually like Johnson and his epic hairstyle, probably more than 95% of HFboards, but he's gone in a second if Babcock starts thinking Pittsburgh.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

A lot of those areas have improved.

Drafting/Development: Shero seemed to get the idea later on, we have some promising young players at every position. Murray and Jarry in goal, Maatta, Pouliot, Harrington on D, Kapanen and Sundqvist at forward. Those are just the notable names, we might have more good players in the pipeline, guys like Megna, Dumoulin, Wilson, Sheary, etc.

None of those guys--save for Maatta--are anywhere close to being impact NHLers. Pouliot showed signs of elite offensive ability, but he's nowhere near polished enough to get top 4 minutes yet. Murray's had an incredible year in the AHL, but I'd like another year before I'd feel comfortable giving him backup time. Kapanen is still a year away, even if he's looked good in his brief AHL stint.

Free Agent signings: Jim Rutherford didn't do too bad in FA, Ehrhoff, Comeau, Downie, and Greiss all on one year deals not overpaying for any of them. Shero signed Scuderi which was bad, but other than that he was never really that active and when he was it was just for cheap depth because we couldn't afford anything better. Martin and Michalek weren't horrendous but they weren't great either, Martin ended up paying off, but Michalek sucked here.

There's a distinct difference between "not doing too badly" and being successful. A large gap separates the two. No, I don't really have any issue with JR's signings. Mostly low risk, all short deals. Free agency has been garbage for years, is garbage now, and will continue to be garbage for the foreseeable future. It's a horrendous way to fix glaring holes in your lineup. It's a horrendous way of building.

Sid/Geno wingers: JR added a couple good ones in Perron and Hornqvist, and I'm willing to bet he adds a least one more this Summer, if not more. Shero brought guys in, we just didn't keep them, couldn't re-sign Hossa and traded Neal for Hornqvist.

I'm happy with Perron and Hornqvist's acquisitions, but that's just a start. We need two more wingers of equal or better caliber. I just have a feeling this organization's run by people stupid enough to believe that there's no more work to be done. I vehemently believe that we need to move one of Letang or Maatta to land the coveted, elite winger we need. It's not gonna happen in FA, it's not gonna happen at the draft/deadline, and it's not gonna happen with Sutter's return (if we should trade him, which I think we need to). The position we find ourselves in after a decade of horrific forward drafting/development is that we can only take the trade route to fix things now. We can't rely on the draft, it'll take to long--and I don't have a single drop of faith in this team's ability to scout and develop talent at forward.

Old/slow/small/soft roster: Under JR, the roster got younger and will continue to get younger. I would say we got faster but we need more speed, I don't think the Pens are too small overall but more size would be good, yes they are soff.

We're 25th in avg. weight, 15th in avg. height, and we're the 4th oldest team in the league. Add to that the fact that we're soft as baby ****, it amplifies the issues with the roster's avg. size.

Asset management: I don't see it being terrible, we don't do anything that any other team doesn't do. Even the great Chicago Blackhawks traded a 1st for Antoine Vermette, a 2nd for Timonen, etc. The Penguins aren't a team who should be trading their rentals, the goal is to win the Cup, selling off our UFAs hurts us more than helps us. Shero was smart to trade Staal so he didn't leave for nothing, and I think we'll do the same with Sutter.

We basically traded Staal for peanuts. We waited until the 11th hour, when it was blatantly clear he'd only sign in Carolina, and we moved him for a significantly worse return because of it. The writing was on the wall for a solid year before he was eventually moved, but this organization's so averse to change that it refused to look forward without Staal. Shero basically handed him a blank check while weeping and clinging to his leg. We could have easily gotten the winger we covet for Staal, as well as a solid return of prospects/picks. We could have landed Bobby Ryan+, but we chose to stubbornly refuse to imagine moving on without Staal, so we threw caution to the wind and took it down to the wire.

We should have moved Martin. We could have gotten a fantastic return for him this deadline. He wasn't the make-or-break player that was going to ensure a deep playoff run. But, again, we refused to approach things with insight and an eye to the future. It was blatantly apparent we were not good enough to make a deep run this spring, but we spent big on Winnik and tossed away an incredibly promising player in Despres for Ben ****ing Lovejoy--and all of his experience (all ~100 more games).

If you have any sort of faith in this team's ability to assess the value of players properly, or in it's ability to adapt, evolve, and stay at the forefront of the league--I admire your dedication to the "ignorance is bliss" mindset.

Over-valuing of experience/leadership: Other than the Despres trade, they didn't have a choice to play the youth and that may force their hand in the future. Pouliot and Dumoulin were given legit chances and impressed, so far JR said the young guys will have a chance, he'll solidify that claim by getting rid of the older players.

JR said that last season. And then he traded Despres for absolutely nothing--an AHL level defenseman who is 31 and atrocious in all aspects of the game.

JR's a mouthpiece. He's got no real power. He's a front for the same 38 idiots who worked with Shero and learned from him. Nothing's changed. Nothing will.

Until things actually happen, I'm not willing to give this organization the benefit of the doubt. Not for a second. Actions speak louder than words.

JR went on about having to get younger, how they ****ed up Bennett's development, how they botched the Despres deal, how they need to get faster and harder to play against, and how he needs to find two wingers--through trade since FA is ****. I agree with all of it, but it's the same old song and dance until I see things being done. How are we going to get said wingers? Sutter? Maybe, but we'd have to add significantly. Letang? That'd do it--he'd fetch a King's Ransom, but I don't think this organization's got the brains or the balls to make a move like that. Maatta? He'd get a damn good return too, but I'd rather trade Letang.

In any event, I'll believe it all when I see it happen. I'm not sold.

 

[NatureBoy]

You don´t get the chance to hire a fantastic coach that often. If a coach like that becomes available it is just stupid not to at least try to pursue him. But once again, this shows in what horrible shape this organization really is.....

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's the same as seeing a guy like Parise make it to free agency. If he's one of the best in the world at what he does, be it coach, LW, defenseman, whatever... You make it your ****ing priority to land that guy. Why? Because we makes your ****ing hockey team better.

Not exactly rocket science.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I love how HF rumors start like this. My brother's on the waiting list and to the best of our knowledge, there's been no significant change in order (or way of knowing, by any means).

Whatever dude.

I've had a great relationship with my rep for many years. They contacted me the other day to ask me if I was interested in moving my seats to a spot that was opening up I was interested in. We had a conversation about moving seats, renewals, and how things are looking. Your brother can inquire but they aren't going to tell him final numbers until after May 31. The rep said it doesn't look good now and the renewals are coming in much lower and the amount of people on the waiting list has dwindled.

I share some info my rep told me and I'm starting rumors.

 

[#66]

This is true. Morehouse is the real issue in the organization.

I really don't think STHers give a **** about what excuse the Pens are going to give. The on ice product was so bad last year and even die hard fans are fed up.

He's a talking head.

The inmates have run the asylum in Pittsburgh for more than 30 years. Any change in that leads to cups.

CP steps in, changes the make up around Mario and Coff and wins cups.

A task master like MT is in place and he gets this team to a final and it was Discos spin on MT hockey that won a cup.

Enough with the baby sitters and EJ grooming coaches that come in. I don't want to see a coach play head games with Sid and Malkin but they do have to take some responsibility for how they played in the playoffs this year and last year.

Malkin looked like dog **** this year. Crosby played like a zero last year. No two buts about it... Get it done, at least try or take a Tavares contract otherwise. IMO they need to hear that every once in a while.


I'm just sick of the culture that surrounds this team. Last year the Pens were slow and soft... this year the Pens changed so much and end up being soft and slow. WTF!!!

 

[PensFan68]

Good, I never expected them to and didn't even want them to after thinking about it. I posted this in the offseason thread.



Think I'm an idiot all you want, be my guest. I don't think Babcock is that great, he's a good coach but hey, Dan Bylsma is looked at as a good coach too, so is Mike Johnston. Mike Babcock is not Scotty Bowman, he's closer to Dan Bylsma than Bowman lol, I don't see a massive upgrade from Bylsma to Johnston to Babcock, I just don't.

I agree a bit with you. While I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, he just doesn't seem to finish. If Bylsma would've stayed here, he would've ended up with more wins than Babcock in the same amount of time. Does that mean he is a great coach?

And the fans here would turn on Babcock in a heartbeat. He'd be playing Craig Adams just like the last two coaching staffs.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Anyone that doesn't think we're neck and neck with the worst run organizations is out to lunch.

Run down the checklist: Horrendous drafting/development, horrendous free agent signings, Sid and Geno still don't have wingers after a decade, roster is old/slow/small/soft, terrible asset management, terrible over-valuing of experience/leadership.

But hey, we sell jerseys and people go to the games, so whatever... Right? Stay the course.

So what exactly would change, out of all the problems you listed, if Babcock was hired? The "Council of Nine" would still be in control of the front office.

They need top down changes, not bottom up changes.

3Crosby played like a zero last year. No two buts about it...

3rd in the scoring race and 1st in PPG... I would hate to see what you would think of him if he would have finished outside the Top 10 and dropped below a point per game.

Was he at his very best? No, but I would hardly call his season "playing like a zero".

 

[Ogrezilla]

We probably weren't going to be able to hire him even if we wanted to.

 

[roquay]

You don´t get the chance to hire a fantastic coach that often. If a coach like that becomes available it is just stupid not to at least try to pursue him. But once again, this shows in what horrible shape this organization really is.....

I'm sure they have asked about him. They can't do it publicly.

 

[BHD]

No big surprise. Still ****ing stupid though. In order to be a successful franchise, you gotta hurt some feelings now and then. This organization refuses to do so, so it will continue to toil in mediocrity like it has for the past 5+ years.

Maybe the organization doesn't believe in knee-jerk reactions.

i dont hate this.

The Penguins will be fine with MJ.

MJ did a respectable job, all things considered. Babcock would definitely be an upgrade over him, but those insisting it needed to happen... I dunno...