News Article: Awesome read: Why we fight?

[flaneur]

shrug. not sure why there is such a negative reaction to this op-ed. i'm definitely not a proponent of fighting but i thought it was an interesting and honest assessment from the perspective of the new type of nhl enforcer (too small to be a classic enforcer but has some skill to help his team in other aspects of the game). this doesn't mean i agree with his viewpoint... but that is what op-eds are about.

so far i've enjoyed reading a sampling of articles from that site (i thought the logan couture break down of his favourite centers was a good read). with derek jeter's reputation and clout amongst athletes i'm not surprised that he has gotten some interesting contributors.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

Haha I'm thankful a few other people enjoyed the read lol.

 

[Terrapin]

Haha I'm thankful a few other people enjoyed the read lol.

You probably wont find a more anti-fighting/physical play crowd than on this board. They'll defend their European-style utopia regardless of how many times the Pens get manhandled out of the playoffs

 

[billybudd]

You probably wont find a more anti-fighting/physical play crowd than on this board. They'll defend their European-style utopia regardless of how many times the Pens get manhandled out of the playoffs

Difficult to argue that enforcing still functions in the fable-like manner Prust says it does. In 1991? Sure. Now? Not a chance.

If Marchand blows out OV's knee on a slewfoot, there's no linesman in the league that's about to let Erskine go take care of that.

Not saying the psychology of intimidation isn't still an important variable, but the officiating favors rats, not "policemen." Prust is living in a fairy tale world.

 

[Terrapin]

Difficult to argue that enforcing still functions in the fable-like manner Prust says it does. In 1991? Sure. Now? Not a chance.

If Marchand blows out OV's knee on a slewfoot, there's no linesman in the league that's about to let Erskine go take care of that.

Not saying the psychology of intimidation isn't still an important variable, but the officiating favors rats, not "policemen." Prust is living in a fairy tale world.

I agree. However, everyone points to the instigator penalty. I think I can count on one hand how many times I've actually seen that called over the years. I don't believe Tootoo even got one when he attack Borts (the 2nd fight).

I think the big reason for the decline of true enforcers is that nowadays players are bigger, faster, stronger than 30 years ago, and more guys can actually play AND fight/intimidate. Of course, the Pens somehow have managed to acquire zero of those types of guys. lol

 

[billybudd]

I agree. However, everyone points to the instigator penalty. I think I can count on one hand how many times I've actually seen that called over the years. I don't believe Tootoo even got one when he attack Borts (the 2nd fight).

I think the big reason for the decline of true enforcers is that nowadays players are bigger, faster, stronger than 30 years ago, and more guys can actually play AND fight/intimidate. Of course, the Pens somehow have managed to acquire zero of those types of guys. lol

Nah. Players are bigger, sure, but I'd be floored if Chris Kreider didn't get handled badly by Wendel Clark. Guys 30 years ago were so much more practiced at fighting.

The difference is real, real simple: linesmen didn't used to break up mismatches if the smaller guy did something to invite the fight.

As a side note, there was never a point I'm aware of in which the instigator was NOT a penalty. Prior to 2 minutes instigation, the refs would give an extra 2 for roughing if you jumped a guy.

 

[madinsomniac]

You probably wont find a more anti-fighting/physical play crowd than on this board. They'll defend their European-style utopia regardless of how many times the Pens get manhandled out of the playoffs

But to be fair, fighting is a non event in those same playoffs... Look I came to grips years ago that eventually the league will legislate fighting out... they are moving that way... making it illegal to take your helmet off and getting rid of the penalty for fighting with a visor on are just two more nails in the coffin.

Fighting was never the policing tool people claimed, but it is entertaining and it was an outlet for the nutso contingency so they didn't accost someone with a stick. It also lent the aura of toughness to a sport that was often associated with ice skating by the uninitiated and not thought of as the rough contact sport it really is. In any case as TSN and ESPN have pointed out this year, more and more true fighters are being shown the door and not signed in this era. the threat of lawsuits are effectively removing this slowly but surely.

 

[Terrapin]

But to be fair, fighting is a non event in those same playoffs... Look I came to grips years ago that eventually the league will legislate fighting out... they are moving that way... making it illegal to take your helmet off and getting rid of the penalty for fighting with a visor on are just two more nails in the coffin.

Fighting was never the policing tool people claimed, but it is entertaining and it was an outlet for the nutso contingency so they didn't accost someone with a stick. It also lent the aura of toughness to a sport that was often associated with ice skating by the uninitiated and not thought of as the rough contact sport it really is. In any case as TSN and ESPN have pointed out this year, more and more true fighters are being shown the door and not signed in this era. the threat of lawsuits are effectively removing this slowly but surely.

Fighting isn't as common in the playoffs, but let's not pretend like it doesn't ever happen. Every series the losing team in games 1 or 2 starts running people.

The league won't get rid of it, at least in our lifetime. There are too many people that like it, and too few people that care enough to get rid of it. Like you said, the NHL is ultimately entertainment, and in the eyes of most people, hockey just isn't entertaining enough. Many will say it's still a secondary sport due to the bad rap of fighting. They may be right. But there's no fighting in college hockey, and when's the last time you saw a college hockey game on TV?

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Fights still occur in the playoffs. Lower than the amount of fights that occur during the regular season; obviously.

This team hasn't been the same since Godard and Rupp were released. Seeing Brandon Bollig go after Simon Despres during a puck stoppage was frustrating. Knowing that only one player on the team that has a chance of not getting beaten decisively. How many times does Downie have to fight out of his weightclass? He is eventually going to get knocked out; you can feel it.

Enforcers can help build team toughness. Many players have stated that they feel bigger knowing that someone has their back. That being said; a Ryan Malone or Bill Guerin type power-forward is vital as well.

Is an enforcer going to contain Matt Cooke or Ryan Garbutt; probably not. However, they can contain a Matt Martin or an Adam McQuaid.

The mindset that all goons/enforcers are terrible players is false. Hybrid-enforcers like Chris Neil, Brandon Prust, Anthony Peluso, and Ryan Reaves are capable of playing a regular shift.

 

[lastcupever75]

Nah. Players are bigger, sure, but I'd be floored if Chris Kreider didn't get handled badly by Wendel Clark. Guys 30 years ago were so much more practiced at fighting.

The difference is real, real simple: linesmen didn't used to break up mismatches if the smaller guy did something to invite the fight.

As a side note, there was never a point I'm aware of in which the instigator was NOT a penalty. Prior to 2 minutes instigation, the refs would give an extra 2 for roughing if you jumped a guy.

maybe. but thats a tough example for your point. clark was one of the best fighters in the game IMO. he would no doubt destroy kreider

I rank him the #1 fighter in his weight class.
and he's likely near the top of guys who can fight and play the game as well

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

I thought the pysc momentum aspect was most currently applicable. I didn't read it as "I am a deterrent through pure fear". A la enforcers of old. I see some of it as the modern pound of flesh. No more poundings via mismatch with goons. But the same mentality. If you play that way, it's going to suck for you. I will make sure of it.

The idea of physical play, hits and general rough and tumble can ignite a team. And it's a players role to do it. I thought comeau Downie and despres did that well for us early on. It's faded to an all to similar level. Laps has helped the current 4th line start having a clear role and style of play that works for the three. Improvement.

With comeau healthy we just need a bigger better Farnham. But who idk.