News Article: Awesome read: Why we fight?

StutzlesTapeJob

Registered User
Dec 22, 2008
1,162
79
http://http://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-we-fight/

Just an amazing perspective inside the nhl from a pov you don't get often.

It's by Prust aka pruster and explains a great deal about fighting, team chemistry, the role of enforcers and so on. I like how it's done. It's honest and not self aggrandizement.

It's very relevant for our roster discussions, team chemistry, and oft injured star players. Per prust, Players do fear getting pummeled (even enforcers every player is human and doesn't like getting beat up) It's important to make it clear you can't target stars, free of charge. You need guys who relish the role of responding. Etc.

Downie is a step in the right direction. The rest of our bottom six is not, or doesn't care enough.

Hope some of you enjoy it as much as I did.
 

MtlPenFan

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
15,629
754
What a load.

Everything in there is ********. For the 1000th time, having guys who fight isn't a deterrent to anything.

And the fact that Prust - who's neither won or lost a fight his entire career - considers himself an enforcer is the funniest thing I've read in a while.
 

Penguinator

Kesselator
Sep 17, 2014
3,999
2
Space
What a load.

Everything in there is ********. For the 1000th time, having guys who fight isn't a deterrent to anything.

And the fact that Prust - who's neither won or lost a fight his entire career - considers himself an enforcer is the funniest thing I've read in a while.

But... but... I always thought this was for real!

I happen to be watching Slap Shot right now, next thing i know you're gonna tell me that it's not real either?

You're breaking my heart brah! :cry:
 

StutzlesTapeJob

Registered User
Dec 22, 2008
1,162
79
Well safe to say if it's not obscure comic references that the masses are too simple to understand, it won't go over well here. The usual salty genital crew shall poo poo it.

I thought it was good to get more insight into an nhl fighting role players mind. Even if only confirming what I know from junior and d1.

I took little of Prust trying to exaggerate that he was a heavyweight or an agent of mutually assured destruction. Ide take Prust over our 4th line any day of the week

I also believe the opinion he contributed to be more informed...u know as a guy who made it to the chel, than we who who contributes on here.

A team that responds aggressively as a complete group when opposition takes liberties means something. Must just be coincidence that our stars are injury prone. We lack emotion. And get roughed out of the playoffs consistently. It's prob just that we r missing jagr.....
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,355
18,785
Pittsburgh
Is it really anything the masses around here don't get? I mean...I understand where this may have a touch on the borderline fan base who don't know much about the game, but here everyone is more detailed in the ways of the game.

Add in the player giving the narrative on the subject and that's where the negative vibe comes in.

The Pens are soffff, and Downie does touch base with this, but as a whole this team needs more guys with a spine. Lapierre and Comeau are also a step in the right direction. They need that guy who'll be taken seriously who's not about antagonizing, and worth putting in the top six when needed.

I'm drawling a blank on that note.

I mean better than, Stewart.;)
 

vikingGoalie

Registered User
Oct 31, 2010
2,904
1,328
Is it really anything the masses around here don't get? I mean...I understand where this may have a touch on the borderline fan base who don't know much about the game, but here everyone is more detailed in the ways of the game.

Add in the player giving the narrative on the subject and that's where the negative vibe comes in.

The Pens are soffff, and Downie does touch base with this, but as a whole this team needs more guys with a spine. Lapierre and Comeau are also a step in the right direction. They need that guy who'll be taken seriously who's not about antagonizing, and worth putting in the top six when needed.

I'm drawling a blank on that note.

I mean better than, Stewart.;)

i fill in the blank. Evander Kane

Though we'll never get him now that the Jets are a legit playoff team.
 

Greeneye

Registered User
May 17, 2006
3,858
5
Golden, CO
Well safe to say if it's not obscure comic references that the masses are too simple to understand, it won't go over well here. The usual salty genital crew shall poo poo it.

I thought it was good to get more insight into an nhl fighting role players mind. Even if only confirming what I know from junior and d1.

I took little of Prust trying to exaggerate that he was a heavyweight or an agent of mutually assured destruction. Ide take Prust over our 4th line any day of the week

I also believe the opinion he contributed to be more informed...u know as a guy who made it to the chel, than we who who contributes on here.

A team that responds aggressively as a complete group when opposition takes liberties means something. Must just be coincidence that our stars are injury prone. We lack emotion. And get roughed out of the playoffs consistently. It's prob just that we r missing jagr.....

Don't take it personal man, the Pens board has collectively forgot more about hockey than Prust or any NHL player will ever know.
 

Terrapin

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
9,361
1,382
Prust is actually a pretty good guy to comment on this. He's not exactly an enforcer, but he does do his share of fighting and agitating. He's exactly right. Nobody wants to get their ass kicked, let alone in front of 20,000 people.

I highly recommend the book The Code. Even if it's a bit dated, there are some great stories in it. I recall one (I'd have to go back and look exactly), where I think Tony Twist fought someone who was kind of a friend of his. He kicked the guys ass, and as Twist was getting off of him, the guy says to Twist 'loser's buying dinner later'. Twist says 'well that's you!'. Dude says 'yeah, but winner's buying the beer *******!'
 

mikethelegacy

formerly mikelegacy
May 9, 2013
1,763
16
Pittsburgh, Pa
Prust is actually a pretty good guy to comment on this. He's not exactly an enforcer, but he does do his share of fighting and agitating. He's exactly right. Nobody wants to get their ass kicked, let alone in front of 20,000 people.

I highly recommend the book The Code. Even if it's a bit dated, there are some great stories in it. I recall one (I'd have to go back and look exactly), where I think Tony Twist fought someone who was kind of a friend of his. He kicked the guys ass, and as Twist was getting off of him, the guy says to Twist 'loser's buying dinner later'. Twist says 'well that's you!'. Dude says 'yeah, but winner's buying the beer *******!'

That's awesome!!! I have to read that book because of that one little snippet now hahaha.
 

Your Boy Troy

Registered User
Sep 19, 2013
2,804
750
Brampton, Ontario
A terrible article by a terrible player.

Brandon Prust is a terrible player? Is this sarcasm?

The guy is capable of moving up or down a line. He would instantly be the best player on the Pens fourth-line.

Just last night he knocked down a 6'8" Tyler Myers on open ice which caused a turnover and he finished the play off with a nice one-timer goal.
[edit]
MOD
 
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MtlPenFan

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
15,629
754
Brandon Prust is a terrible player? Is this sarcasm?

The guy is capable of moving up or down a line. He would instantly be the best player on the Pens fourth-line.

Just last night he knocked down a 6'8" Tyler Myers on open ice which caused a turnover and he finished the play off with a nice one-timer goal.

:shakehead

Yes, it's easy to knock a guy down when you jump out of the penalty box, hit an unsuspecting player by clipping him from behind as he's back pedaling and go the other way.

This was nothing but yet another self serving soliloquy by a player whose only reason for being is being able to hold his own in a fight.

And again, Brandon Prust has NEVER deterred anyone from doing anything ever.
 
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Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
Well safe to say if it's not obscure comic references that the masses are too simple to understand, it won't go over well here. The usual salty genital crew shall poo poo it.

I thought it was good to get more insight into an nhl fighting role players mind. Even if only confirming what I know from junior and d1.

I took little of Prust trying to exaggerate that he was a heavyweight or an agent of mutually assured destruction. Ide take Prust over our 4th line any day of the week

I also believe the opinion he contributed to be more informed...u know as a guy who made it to the chel, than we who who contributes on here.

A team that responds aggressively as a complete group when opposition takes liberties means something. Must just be coincidence that our stars are injury prone. We lack emotion. And get roughed out of the playoffs consistently. It's prob just that we r missing jagr.....

Thanks for posting. Good stuff. Unfortunately, MOST of the Pens fans on this board have gone completely away from this mentality and line of thinking. Most are now into Corsi. They don't want to hear from guys in the trenches. They want to hear from nerds with abacuses. Most Pens fans have completely bought into the idea that a fourth line should be comprised of the most skilled players possible who don't make a lot of money.

While I do agree $2.5 million for Brandon Prust is simply too much coin, and I wouldn't want that much money tied to the fourth line, and he's not great value for the third line, he still brings quite a bit to the Habs organization. And while not a heavyweight, he can certainly fight and will take on ANYONE. I recall him going with 6-8 Jeff Finley, then of the Islanders. If you guys don't think THAT can electrify a bench, then there is nothing else that needs to be discussed on this matter. It's not always about the fight. It's sometimes about WHO you fight, and it's almost always about WHEN you fight him. The famous 'Shhh' momeny by Max Talbot is a PRIME example of this.

A few years ago, I remember going to see a Habs-Leafs game at the Bell Centre on a Saturday night. Those games are awesome from a fan standpoint. You don't even have to like either team (and I don't) to really enjoy those games. Anyway, the Habs were completely dominating this particular game, and I think the score was 2-0 or maybe even 3-0 in the first period. Brad May decides to drop the gloves with Georges Laraque. Mistake, right? On the surface, oh yes. Laraque dropped him pretty quickly. I mean, this was a total NHL mismatch. Well, when the fight was over, May staggered his way to the penalty box but his team got really charged up. They completely dominated the Habs the rest of the night. It was a game I will never forget.

Fights can change momentum. Fights can create energy when the arena is completely snoozing. Sure there's a deterrent factor too, but there's an entire strategy and psychology to the hockey fight. And believe me, it took me YEARS to figure this out. I used to be a huge proponent of no fighting...more skill on every line. But as you grow older, you learn more and more about the game. About the intricacies of it. About the psychology of it. And so I eventually gave in and realized this actually plays a role in how an individual player performs on the ice.

By the way, just because I really enjoy annoying a LOT of you here, John Scott scored his second goal of the season last night against Calgary. And he scored when it was 3-0 in the third period. And he did exactly what any good leader would do in that situation...got his bench fired up and going "come on guys!" repeatedly, both on the ice and when he got back to the bench. The Sharks were completely asleep before the goal. They wound up playing a much stronger third period, even in defeat.

But everybody is going to insist John Scott is useless. Despite the fact he now has as many goals in the NHL this season as Despres, Martin, Lapierre and Bortuzzo...and 1 behind Ehrhoff and Bennett.

Go watch Scott's goal last night and his reaction afterwards. We could only WISH Chris Kunitz had that kind of fire in his belly anymore. And we wonder why Sid seems to be sleepwalking this season.
 

Burgs

Registered User
Sep 10, 2005
6,761
7
Having a heavyweight fighter sometimes helps if he's the right guy. Someone who can skate, play and hit a little in addition to fighting. Godard was pretty good in his role, Laraque too for a while. I remember Talbot saying everyone felt bigger and more eager to play tough, knowing they had BGL ready to back them up. I guess that's what Prust means even though he naturally self-aggrandizes a bit. I'd rather have a few Gary Roberts types sprinkled throughout the lineup than a single enforcer on the 4th line. But I don't think it's a coincidence the Pens have become sort of the always-injured punching balls of the league ever since Godard left and wasn't fully replaced.

Way back in 2006 we brought in Eric Cairns to stop the abuse Sid was going through every game. The current "just outplay them" approach has shown not to work. There was a December game against Florida where Bolland took a premeditated, two-handed slash at Sid's left hand with the puck nowhere near them. He didn't get a penalty, he didn't see any retaliation. Later in the game when Sid got high-sticked and took his glove off to check for blood you could see his other hand was already wrapped up in thick tape. There you have a cause of his goal slump right there. Last week an opponent gave him a vicious cross-check to the hip away from play. Again no penalty and no reaction from our bench. Everyone always talks about getting the most out of our stars. To me that doesn't only mean getting more skilled wingers (though that's very important), it also means protecting the stars that are already here. The current roster doesn't do it, just as last year's didn't do anything about it. I'm not a fan of goons but maybe we need one again, if only so the rest of the team grows some balls.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,590
1,269
Montreal, QC
Having a heavyweight fighter sometimes helps if he's the right guy. Someone who can skate, play and hit a little in addition to fighting. Godard was pretty good in his role, Laraque too for a while. I remember Talbot saying everyone felt bigger and more eager to play tough, knowing they had BGL ready to back them up. I guess that's what Prust means even though he naturally self-aggrandizes a bit. I'd rather have a few Gary Roberts types sprinkled throughout the lineup than a single enforcer on the 4th line. But I don't think it's a coincidence the Pens have become sort of the always-injured punching balls of the league ever since Godard left and wasn't fully replaced.

Way back in 2006 we brought in Eric Cairns to stop the abuse Sid was going through every game. The current "just outplay them" approach has shown not to work. There was a December game against Florida where Bolland took a premeditated, two-handed slash at Sid's left hand with the puck nowhere near them. He didn't get a penalty, he didn't see any retaliation. Later in the game when Sid got high-sticked and took his glove off to check for blood you could see his other hand was already wrapped up in thick tape. There you have a cause of his goal slump right there. Last week an opponent gave him a vicious cross-check to the hip away from play. Again no penalty and no reaction from our bench. Everyone always talks about getting the most out of our stars. To me that doesn't only mean getting more skilled wingers (though that's very important), it also means protecting the stars that are already here. The current roster doesn't do it, just as last year's didn't do anything about it. I'm not a fan of goons but maybe we need one again, if only so the rest of the team grows some balls.

Good post, Burgs. I agree, word for word.
 

MtlPenFan

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
15,629
754
I can name you countless more examples of fights doing nothing to turn momentum than vice versa.
 

Terrapin

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
9,361
1,382
I can name you countless more examples of fights doing nothing to turn momentum than vice versa.

Doesn't really matter though does it? There's a reason, when a fight breaks out, that all 18,000 people in the crowd stop what they're doing, stand up, and cheer. It's entertaining to most people, and you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of players in the leauge that would want it taken out of the game.

As someone else said, John Scott has 2 goals this year. That's as many as Craig Adams has scored in what, the last 3 years combined? Yes Adams kills penalties. So does everyone else on the team not named Kunitz or Bennett.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
Goons/heavyweights/enforcers/glorified janitors don't do anything except waste valuable cap space and roster spots. No goon is going to deter anything from happening to Sid or Geno. We've seen it countless times before when we had a tougher lineup. The guys that are going to take shots at Sid and Geno are grown men, they're not going to be intimidated or deterred from their objective--dirty or not--by some schmuck who plays 3 minutes a game and can't play hockey. Sorry.

It's not about preventing it from happening, because that's simply not a reality. If someone has their mind made up that they're gonna go after one of our guys, there's no stopping it. It's about having a team tough enough to pound the opposition into dust, and have defensemen second-guessing every action on a dump in, and forwards afraid to go along the wall or in corners. Clutterbuck and Martin are prime examples. They hit everything that moves and are very good bottom six players to boot. I'd be all for getting guys that fit that bill--but if you're talking about some knuckle-dragging idiot who skates about as well as some random dude in a beer league--nah. This isn't the 80s. That's not conducive to success in the NHL anymore.

And who cares how many regular season, meaningless goals John Scott has? Are you comfortable putting that guy out on the ice in the playoffs for any significant amount of time? No? Then he's completely useless. If you answered yes, I don't know what to tell ya.
 

Zen Arcade

Bigger than Kiss
Sep 21, 2004
20,308
2,216
Pittsburgh
Having a heavyweight fighter sometimes helps if he's the right guy. Someone who can skate, play and hit a little in addition to fighting. Godard was pretty good in his role, Laraque too for a while. I remember Talbot saying everyone felt bigger and more eager to play tough, knowing they had BGL ready to back them up. I guess that's what Prust means even though he naturally self-aggrandizes a bit. I'd rather have a few Gary Roberts types sprinkled throughout the lineup than a single enforcer on the 4th line. But I don't think it's a coincidence the Pens have become sort of the always-injured punching balls of the league ever since Godard left and wasn't fully replaced.

Way back in 2006 we brought in Eric Cairns to stop the abuse Sid was going through every game. The current "just outplay them" approach has shown not to work. There was a December game against Florida where Bolland took a premeditated, two-handed slash at Sid's left hand with the puck nowhere near them. He didn't get a penalty, he didn't see any retaliation. Later in the game when Sid got high-sticked and took his glove off to check for blood you could see his other hand was already wrapped up in thick tape. There you have a cause of his goal slump right there. Last week an opponent gave him a vicious cross-check to the hip away from play. Again no penalty and no reaction from our bench. Everyone always talks about getting the most out of our stars. To me that doesn't only mean getting more skilled wingers (though that's very important), it also means protecting the stars that are already here. The current roster doesn't do it, just as last year's didn't do anything about it. I'm not a fan of goons but maybe we need one again, if only so the rest of the team grows some balls.

At least in the case of Bolland, Farnham immediately started taking runs at Ekblad. I agree with the rest of your post though.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Having a heavyweight fighter sometimes helps if he's the right guy. Someone who can skate, play and hit a little in addition to fighting. Godard was pretty good in his role, Laraque too for a while. I remember Talbot saying everyone felt bigger and more eager to play tough, knowing they had BGL ready to back them up. I guess that's what Prust means even though he naturally self-aggrandizes a bit. I'd rather have a few Gary Roberts types sprinkled throughout the lineup than a single enforcer on the 4th line. But I don't think it's a coincidence the Pens have become sort of the always-injured punching balls of the league ever since Godard left and wasn't fully replaced.

Way back in 2006 we brought in Eric Cairns to stop the abuse Sid was going through every game. The current "just outplay them" approach has shown not to work. There was a December game against Florida where Bolland took a premeditated, two-handed slash at Sid's left hand with the puck nowhere near them. He didn't get a penalty, he didn't see any retaliation. Later in the game when Sid got high-sticked and took his glove off to check for blood you could see his other hand was already wrapped up in thick tape. There you have a cause of his goal slump right there. Last week an opponent gave him a vicious cross-check to the hip away from play. Again no penalty and no reaction from our bench. Everyone always talks about getting the most out of our stars. To me that doesn't only mean getting more skilled wingers (though that's very important), it also means protecting the stars that are already here. The current roster doesn't do it, just as last year's didn't do anything about it. I'm not a fan of goons but maybe we need one again, if only so the rest of the team grows some balls.

:handclap:
 

Jjbuck

Registered User
Apr 1, 2014
64
21
Countless NHL'ers have spoken in favor of, and have tried to explain fighting.

And countless keyboard warriors have discounted their opinions.

Stick to fantasy hockey, boys.
 

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