GDT: Avs @ Yotes: December 27, 2023 9:00PM EST - Uninspired edition

[dahrougem2]

Naming a new captain ain't going to resolve shit. If you think changing the A to C with one of these guys is going to make a difference, lol.

That's not what the dilemma is. It's losing a guy like Landeskog that hurts, not the theory behind the C.

 

[LOFIN]

That's not what the dilemma is. It's losing a guy like Landeskog that hurts, not the theory behind the C.

I agree, it's just that I got the impression some people think they should've named a new captain and that would resolve the issues.

I do admit, I'm very disappointed in the situation. I know I and probably everyone else here knows that Landy is the best captain in the league, but I thought the leadership group around him would be good enough to sustain his absence.

Are there rules in place that prevent him from being around the team more when he's injured? If not, get him behind the f***ing bench even. He may not be able to go on the ice but should be able to be in every day activities.

 

[the_fan]

They should give the C to Georgiev

 

[LOFIN]

They should give the C to Georgiev

It is stupid how in hockey you cannot give the C to the goalie. Why? He can talk to the refs just as well, it's not THAT hard to skate around in goalie gear.

 

[Foppa2118]

I mean even a league minimum goalie should be making the save on goal #3.

I thought the 3rd on the wraparound was savable, since it went far side, but I took more issue with the 2nd goal personally.

Watch the way he shuffles over on his knees. He's deep in his crease almost at the goal line.

I'm not a goalie technique expert, and I'm sure there's a place for those little shuffles, but I think a big push there to the top corner of his crease might be better. Or even a push to stand up and reset to challenge the shooter, and then go down to the butterfly when the shot is taken.

Instead he stays on his knees, and kind of makes himself small while hunched over a little, and deep in his net. That's why a lesser skilled defenseman was able to find the open net short side from the facoeff dot.

That's a save he makes if he's making himself bigger in net, and cutting down the angle toward the top of the crease.

 

[the_fan]

It is stupid how in hockey you cannot give the C to the goalie. Why? He can talk to the refs just as well, it's not THAT hard to skate around in goalie gear.

And isn’t that sort of discrimination not giving a C to goalies?

 

[henchman21]

It is stupid how in hockey you cannot give the C to the goalie. Why? He can talk to the refs just as well, it's not THAT hard to skate around in goalie gear.

Tell that to Lou

 

[The Abusement Park]

I think the teams missing Landy more on the ice than off the ice.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think the teams missing Landy more on the ice than off the ice.

Well they're 2nd in goals/gm, so they're ok in that department.

They're 14th in goal against/gm, so maybe he could have helped there, but they have good enough personnel defensively IMO. They're just making too many mental mistakes, and the goalie is letting in a few too many soft goals.

That's something Landy would be able to help with off the ice, especially the mistakes, but not on the ice. Mostly during games too.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well they're 2nd in goals/gm, so they're ok in that department.

They're 14th in goal against/gm, so maybe he could have helped there, but they have good enough personnel defensively IMO. They're just making too many mental mistakes, and the goalie is letting in a few too many soft goals.

That's something Landy would be able to help with off the ice, especially the mistakes, but not on the ice. Mostly during games too.

I mean gpg will be fine no matter what with the talent on the team. The roster as a whole just has everyone playing either more minutes than they should or higher roles than they should. Landy moving all the forwards down a role, for the most part, would really help the depth out right now and I think that right now is a major issue on the roster.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

One thing the captain does though is reinforce the coaches' marching orders. Toews made it clear that there is a disconnect between how some players think they are playing and how they are actually playing.

This is an area where Landeskog is missed. Not just because he has a letter on his chest, this isn't some stupid Nathanial Hawthorne novel. What Landeskog has though is the ability to hold folks accountable. Folks actually like to be held accountable by him; they want his approval because they hold him in high esteem. Those things are why he was given the C, not the result of it. It's those intangibles that the team appears to be missing the most.

Landy is the first to change his game to what is needed in the moment. You need someone net front, tipping goals, he'll do it. You need to run and gun, he's not fast but he doesn't hold the speedier guys back and he positively helps them out by doing a lot of heavy lifting for them while playing this style. Worried someone is trying to take a run at one of your guys? Landy will be your huckleberry....

Brayden Schenn vs. Gabriel Landeskog, May 17, 2021 - St Louis Blues vs. Colorado Avalanche | HockeyFights

HockeyFights - Brayden Schenn vs. Gabriel Landeskog, May 17, 2021 - St Louis Blues vs. Colorado Avalanche

www.hockeyfights.com

Ultimately, I think where Landy is truly missed is that he did a lot of work getting players out of their own heads which allows for better consistency which appears to be the big issue this season.

 

[henchman21]

If this team has leadership issues with Landy not around, the problems are simply deeper than we all think and may not be fixable. I don’t think this is the case personally.

 

[the_fan]

I really love how everything is doom and gloom, no light at the end of the tunnel, sky is falling, but the Avs sit only 4 points behind the Rangers for the league lead. Not that I haven’t also been pessimistic… I have.

Talk about having high standards, but this takes it to another level

 

[Foppa2118]

I really love how everything is doom and gloom, no light at the end of the tunnel, sky is falling, but the Avs sit only 4 points behind the Rangers for the league lead. Not that I haven’t also been pessimistic… I have.

Talk about having high standards, but this takes it to another level

And most of their problems have been mental, and focus related, including in goal. Which in theory should be fixable in season. They fix that, and maybe get Kovalenko and someone else at the deadline, and they've got as good a shot as anybody.

This ties in with leadership though.

If you take the two biggest leaders off a team, and don't really replace them with the same kind of vocal, highly respected leaders, any team will suffer. It's not a sign of a problem, outside the fact that some of the guys left run a little hot, and could use a calming presence like they had before.

It's going to take some time for new leadership to step forward too and carry the torch the same way.

Hopefully they can work their way through it and maybe get Gabe back as a boost for the playoffs.

 

[the_fan]

And most of their problems have been mental, and focus related, including in goal. Which in theory should be fixable in season. They fix that, and maybe get Kovalenko and someone else at the deadline, and they've got as good a shot as anybody.

This ties in with leadership though.

If you take the two biggest leaders off a team, and don't really replace them with the same kind of vocal, highly respected leaders, any team will suffer. It's not a sign of a problem, outside the fact that some of the guys left run a little hot, and could use a calming presence like they had before.

It's going to take some time for new leadership to step forward too and carry the torch the same way.

Hopefully they can work their way through it and maybe get Gabe back as a boost for the playoffs.

I agree yes. Most of this losses are mental and self inflicted, but it is amazing that after all of that, they’re only 4 points from league lead. If someone read our forum and didn’t check the standings, they would think Avs were a lottery team. I also will stand by what I’ve been saying and blame some of the losing on not having a 2nd line. Part of the mental collapse Avs are having is because the top guys getting overworked

 

[Foppa2118]

I agree yes. Most of this losses are mental and self inflicted, but it is amazing that after all of that, they’re only 4 points from league lead. If someone read our forum and didn’t check the standings, they would think Avs were a lottery team. I also will stand by what I’ve been saying and blame some of the losing on not having a 2nd line. Part of the mental collapse Avs are having is because the top guys getting overworked

They're in that place in the standings, despite being 5-4-1 in their last 10 as well. Plenty of room for growth.

Fix the mental errors, and soft goals, and they should end up with a better record, and may be even higher in the standings. They'll at least be in a good position to do so.

2nd line for sure is playing a part in the losses. I think they could overcome some of the losses, by stopping the mistakes, but they also need more O zone time, to generate more momentum from RJ's line.

The game is so much about momentum now, even more than in the past. You lose it and it's hard to get it back. Especially when as Cale says, they're having trouble re-focusing, and getting off their heels.

Since late November, Val hasn't played less than 21:35 in a game. Bednar has played him around 25 minutes five times. Around 27 minutes three times. And 29 minutes against Ottawa. There's a limit to how long you can do that before you burn a guy out or risk injury.

He played him 25 minutes in this one, and he looked like crap. Lots of uncharacteristic turnovers and lost battles. Though maybe that was because he had too much sugar on the Xmas ham.

 

[henchman21]

I really love how everything is doom and gloom, no light at the end of the tunnel, sky is falling, but the Avs sit only 4 points behind the Rangers for the league lead. Not that I haven’t also been pessimistic… I have.

Talk about having high standards, but this takes it to another level

You must be willfully ignoring games played and points percentage.

But this is about contending… not another worthless division title and quick exit like last season.

 

[the_fan]

They're in that place in the standings, despite being 5-4-1 in their last 10 as well. Plenty of room for growth.

Fix the mental errors, and soft goals, and they should end up with a better record, and may be even higher in the standings. They'll at least be in a good position to do so.

2nd line for sure is playing a part in the losses. I think they could overcome some of the losses, by stopping the mistakes, but they also need more O zone time, to generate more momentum from RJ's line.

The game is so much about momentum now, even more than in the past. You lose it and it's hard to get it back. Especially when as Cale says, they're having trouble re-focusing, and getting off their heels.

Agreed on over playing players. Bednar played Val 29 minutes against Ottawa. Played him 27 a couple other times and 25 a couple other times. Then he played him 25 minutes in this one, and he looked like crap. Lots of uncharacteristic turnovers and lost battles. Though maybe that was because he had too much sugar on the Xmas ham.

Exactly.

With a legit 2nd line, specially one defensively responsible plus providing offense would make a world of difference. Again, it’s actually amazing where the Avs are in standings without a 2nd line. They havent even had Lehky for a while, the one guy who could at least play on 2nd line and make a difference.

 

[the_fan]

You must be willfully ignoring games played and points percentage.

But this is about contending… not another worthless division title and quick exit like last season.

Said it before, they can’t contend without a 2nd line. Colton Wood and Drouin being the 2nd line is not gonna cut it

 

[henchman21]

Said it before, they can’t contend without a 2nd line. Colton Wood and Drouin being the 2nd line is not gonna cut it

Oh i agree.. but they could win the Central without a second line and playing the top line 25+ a game. Which would likely lead to a quick exit. Would that be a success just because they did well in the regular season?

 

[the_fan]

Oh i agree.. but they could win the Central without a second line and playing the top line 25+ a game. Which would likely lead to a quick exit. Would that be a success just because they did well in the regular season?

Absolutely not. This is why it’s all on CMac to fix if they want to go far in the playoffs. It’s not like he needs to get an entire second line. Just get a legit 2C, and with Lehky back, it should be enough

Lehky-Lindholm-Drouin

That’s a good enough 2nd line

 

[Foppa2118]

Literally every year we blame the Avs record on a weak division. Including the year before they won the Cup.

Avs are 8th in points % in the entire NHL, with two teams from the Central ahead of them. Only the Pacific has more ahead of them with three.

And they're in that spot while playing like shit, going 5-4-1 in their last 10, making careless mistakes and turnovers, and letting in soft goals. Which are all things they can correct in season.

Meanwhile they should get Lehky and Girard back soon, and if they're lucky maybe add Kovalenko and Landy, plus a deadline addition or two.

They need to get better, including in goal, and improve the 2nd line somehow, but they're still in a good spot to contend if they do. These aren't massive hurdles or inherent problems that can't be fixed in season either.

 

[henchman21]

Absolutely not. This is why it’s all on CMac to fix if they want to go far in the playoffs. It’s not like he needs to get an entire second line. Just get a legit 2C, and with Lehky back, it should be enough

Lehky-Lindholm-Drouin

That’s a good enough 2nd line

I don’t think that is enough, but we’d get sidetracked with semantics.

The point I’m making there is pointing to standings success today as a sign things are okay is basically like saying last season was okay or winning the central again and getting booted is okay. The standings today simply don’t matter to the goals this team should have. We could dissect the details of why the Avs are up the standings, but the fact of the matter is they could be 6 points ahead of everyone else, if they don’t have a good shot at contending, it simply doesn’t matter where they are today or march.

 

[the_fan]

I don’t think that is enough, but we’d get sidetracked with semantics.

The point I’m making there is pointing to standings success today as a sign things are okay is basically like saying last season was okay or winning the central again and getting booted is okay. The standings today simply don’t matter to the goals this team should have. We could dissect the details of why the Avs are up the standings, but the fact of the matter is they could be 6 points ahead of everyone else, if they don’t have a good shot at contending, it simply doesn’t matter where they are today or march.

There is still a chance of Landy coming back in the playoffs, Kovalenko making impact when he joins the Avs, but add that to uncertainty what CMac will actually do to fix the 2C, there are a lot of question marks for this team right now

 

[expatriatedtexan]

There is still a chance of Landy coming back in the playoffs, Kovalenko making impact when he joins the Avs, but add that to uncertainty what CMac will actually do to fix the 2C, there are a lot of question marks for this team right now

Not to mention if we have an actual 2C, Bednar might be willing to share one of Nuke or Rantanen with him to give that second line a little more 5v5 goal scoring umph.