GDT: Avs @ Yotes: December 27, 2023 9:00PM EST - Uninspired edition

[Balthazar]

Let's say we go with your assessment on the goals, which i absolutely do not agree with, but even then the goal that really broke us was the 3rd goal. George makes the routine save we probably win 4-2. Instead they score and gain even more confidence to fuel their comeback.

Again, you get what you pay for. In this case it's a 3rd and a 5th round pick.

3.4M AAV. This is bottom tier AAV for starters in this league.

 

[AslanRH]

Bo's not a spring chicken anymore and I get the feeling he's pretty much who he's going to be at this point. But is this something you think he can still get better at, or do you think this is just where he's going to level out at?

I always go with Peter McNab's 200 game theory for defensemen.
Until they hit that mark, I'm going to keep hoping they have more development coming.
You can see many signs of what they could be early on, but it is the experience that flushes out what they will be.

 

[Pokecheque]

It's the kind of goal you should expect on a 3M AAV starter. Georgiev was never going to be a top end goalie, he's a cheap goalie acquired for cheap.

It's no worse than all those glove side goals on Grubauer or getting scored on because Kuemper was somehow 10 ft outside of his net.

Main difference is this year's Avs are a lot weaker than previous years Avs, especially on defense.

I'm not expecting him to be Patrick Roy, but yes, lower-tier starter or not, he should have stopped that one.

And I had my issues with Grubauer and Kuemper too. FTR Kuemper tended to make THOSE saves, it was some of the weak ones off bad rebounds that drove me buts. And so far this year, Georgiev has been demonstrably worse than either of those guys were for the Avs.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Where was that Yote fan on Saturday?

 

[henchman21]

Again, you get what you pay for. In this case it's a 3rd and a 5th round pick.

3.4M AAV. This is bottom tier AAV for starters in this league.

Some context with that AAV though... it is bottom end for established starters in the league, but it is high end for backups moving into a starting role (most are 2.75-3.25m). Which the latter was the case coming in here. His next contract, with any semblance of decent play will demand $5m on the open market... $6+m if it improves to last year's level.

His contract doesn't really matter though... soft goals being given up this consistently will be very tough to overcome in the playoffs. If this team is to contend, the goaltending has to get much better. If it doesn't, George is part of the reason for failure.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

If Varly didn't have another three years on his deal, I'd suggest trying to bring him home. He's currently sitting on a .918 SV% and 2.75GAA with the Islanders and Sorokin's big contract doesn't kick in until next season.

 

[henchman21]

If Varly didn't have another three years on his deal, I'd suggest trying to bring him home. He's currently sitting on a .918 SV% and 2.75GAA with the Islanders and Sorokin's big contract doesn't kick in until next season.

Yeah he really turned into a great 1B… but apparently loves it on the island.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Yeah he really turned into a great 1B… but apparently loves it on the island.

Good for him, too. I know his groin was a serious concern and the main reason we parted ways, but I've always liked Varly and have nothing but fond memories of him here.

 

[Foppa2118]

I disagree on this one. MacKinnon already has Bjugstad in the corner, there was no reason for Byram to also look to engage with Bjugstad. It wasn't a battle, Bjugstad had the puck looking to make a play.

This is where communication on the Avs is horrible. Yes, Crouse started as Nichushkin's man but we know in coverage that is not his man.

Head on a swivel. Cale's man was behind the net. It's not fair to expect him to also take Crouse.

It can be understandable if Bo thought MacKinnon would turn away from Bjugstad and head to the point, thus needing to engage but even if he does that, Crouse is still alone in front.

Bo looked lost, very lost, on that goal.

I don't disagree it would have been better for Bo to leave the man for Nate. Not sure if Nate was going to do that though, he was on his way back to the front of the net, but maybe he would have stayed with him. Cale also has the net front area, and you don't normally see both defenseman there.

However, that's not the biggest mistake on the play, or the reason the goal was scored.

Cale's man was no longer behind the net. He had gone to the others side in front of the net, and Cale was covering nobody and puck watching a bit too much. That's why he was late to try and disrupt the pass/shot with his stick.

All he's got to do here is not get puck focused and take a step forward a second earlier.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Where was that Yote fan on Saturday?

On top of his mom

 

[dahrougem2]

I don't disagree it would have been better for Bo to leave the man for Nate. Not sure if Nate was going to do that though, he was on his way back to the front of the net, but maybe he would have stayed with him. Cale also has the net front area, and you don't normally see both defenseman there.

However, that's not the biggest mistake on the play, or the reason the goal was scored.

Cale's man was no longer behind the net. He had gone to the others side in front of the net, and Cale was covering nobody and puck watching a bit too much. That's why he was late to try and disrupt the pass/shot with his stick.

All he's got to do here is not get puck focused and take a step forward a second earlier.

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But that's not fair. You are in this scenario asking Cale to account for two different players. He was with Macceli behind the net, then Macceli goes around and Cale doesn't follow him.

Even if Cale has the net front area, a simple head check would have shown Bo 2 Coyotes players near the front. If it was just 1, Cale has it taken care of. Because there are 2, and 29 is now in the corner, the onus is on Byram. He HAS to realize the Avs are now outmanned in front just based on the fact that he is beside 29 - is centre.

Byram, IMO, was lost here. It is not only on him, but to me it is mostly.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[Foppa2118]

Bo showing this defense to the staff.

You watching this game.

And who tells Mikko you ripped him for passing to the only guy that was open, and he should have handed the puck to Arizona for the final 30 seconds instead?

 

[Foppa2118]

But that's not fair. You are in this scenario asking Cale to account for two different players. He was with Macceli behind the net, then Macceli goes around and Cale doesn't follow him.

Even if Cale has the net front area, a simple head check would have shown Bo 2 Coyotes players near the front. If it was just 1, Cale has it taken care of. Because there are 2, and 29 is now in the corner, the onus is on Byram. He HAS to realize the Avs are now outmanned in front just based on the fact that he is beside 29 - is centre.

Byram, IMO, was lost here. It is not only on him, but to me it is mostly.

Well that's kind of a normal siatuion though isn't it, if I understand what you're saying correctly? To be aware of more than one player on ice, and then shift your attention to someone else, when you stop covering one of them?

At that moment, by far the most important thing he should be aware of is the man open in front of the net.

If Cale takes a step forward, he's in position to block the back door pass to Macceli, and has his stick in position to break up the play to Crouse. And MacKinnon is there to hopefully block a pass too, though he didn't.

Fair enough on the last part, and agree there was some miscommunication there by everyone, including Bo. I saw that you don't place blame on Bo for the other goals, so agree on that too.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

You watching this game.

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And who tells Mikko you ripped him for passing to the only guy that was open, and he should have handed the puck to Arizona for the final 30 seconds instead?

When did I say he should have handed the puck to Arizona?

When Mikko got the puck, he was 29 seconds into his shift. Both Manson and MacKinnon were at 70 seconds. I said he should have moved his feet. Durzi just shattered his stick, so there was an opportunity.

 

[Foppa2118]

When did I say he should have handed the puck to Arizona?

When Mikko got the puck, he was 29 seconds into his shift. Both Manson and MacKinnon were at 70 seconds. I said he should have moved his feet. Durzi just shattered his stick, so there was an opportunity.

That's the only other option Mars. To dump the puck in, or chip it down ice, and hand over possession.

He had a man closing in on him at the blueline, and bought as much time as he could before passing to Manson, who was open and looking for the pass. If he tries to outstate him, or eats the puck along the wall, he ends up in basically the same situation Manson found himself in.

Nate's not an option to pass back to as a forward who's the only one back and tired, and with a man in the passing lane.

Mikko's mistake isn't passing to Manson, they want to maintain possession in OT if they can, even though Josh is gassed.

Mikko's mistake was switching off after the pass, and not hustling to make himself an option to pass back to, when he saw Manson was getting in trouble. Josh also can't turn the puck over in this situation, no matter how tired he is, but it wouldn't have happened if Mikko supported him better after the pass.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

It's a locker room with no captain, that's what.

Precisely. 1000%!

 

[Foppa2118]

It's a locker room with no captain, that's what.

I think you and I have beaten this drum a lot, though I think we may disagree on whether they should have named a new captain.

But Landy and EJ are clearly big losses in terms of their calming leadership presence specifically, and the respect they had with their teammates, to get them to listen and buy in.

I think some of the guys like Nate and Mikko, and maybe even Toews (didn't expect him) run a little too hot in these situations, on the bench and in the room between periods, and they don't have Landy and EJ to balance that out. Cale's trying, but it doesn't seem to be enough right now.

When Landy and/or EJ were here, we'd hear comments from players during intermission or post game interviews, saying they thought they played well, and they just need to keep a positive mindset, and keep working, and then they'd play well and win the next period or game.

Now we hear comments from guys pointing fingers at others when they're not playing well themselves, and saying guys think they're playing better than they are, and coincidentally or not, they have problems giving away games, and letting one or two goals against snowball into five without re-focusing and getting back on track. Then they don't respond well enough in the games after, so it becomes a losing streak, instead of a one game thing.

Cale said after the game that staying calm has been a problem for them, and he said similar earlier in the year as well.

“It feels like once we're on our heels, we can't really find a way to get off of it. That's what it felt like. Just every time you're touching the ice, you get a little anxious, not knowing what's gonna happen, and then guys get a little...mishandle pucks and stuff. Yeah it's a tough one. Obviously, I just don't think we've found a way to handle that type of adversity unfortunately. We have to find a way to just make sure we can calm everything down in the moment, and re-focus as a group.”

 

[Balthazar]

I think you and I have beaten this drum a lot, though I think we may disagree on whether they should have named a new captain.

Well how can we disagree on that? The new captain literally can't be there. So either it's a new one or no captain at all.

 

[chet1926]

Again, you get what you pay for. In this case it's a 3rd and a 5th round pick.

3.4M AAV. This is bottom tier AAV for starters in this league.

I mean even a league minimum goalie should be making the save on goal #3.

 

[Foppa2118]

Well how can we disagree on that? The new captain literally can't be there. So either it's a new one or no captain at all.

IIRC, you think they should have named a new captain?

I think they should give Landy an opportunity to try and come back first, but more importantly, I don't think making Cale or Nate captain would have changed anything this year unfortunately.

I think Cale or Nate would have approached their leadership role exactly the same, and guys would have respected and listened to them just the same as they do with an A instead of a C.

 

[Balthazar]

IIRC, you think they should have named a new captain?

I think they should give Landy an opportunity to try and come back first, but more importantly, I don't think making Cale or Nate captain would have changed anything this year unfortunately.

I think Cale or Nate would have approached their leadership role exactly the same, and guys would have respected and listened to them just the same as they do with an A instead of a C.

So you think the issue is having no captain but they shouldn't name a captain?

I mean even a league minimum goalie should be making the save on goal #3.

Usually yes, sometimes not.

Georgiev makes that save 19 times out of 20.

 

[Foppa2118]

So you think the issue is having no captain but they shouldn't name a captain?


Usually yes, sometimes not.

Georgiev makes that save 19 times out of 20.

I think the problem is they took their biggest leader out of the room last year, and then their second biggest one out this year. And both have a very calming style of leadership.

It's hard to replace leaders like that in one offseason. One if you're lucky, but two is very hard to do.

It just left a vacuum they haven't been able to fully fill yet, because this is a relatively different group now that's trying to build their own culture. This isn't the same group it was before. There's lots of new personalities.

And unfortunately, I don't think putting the C on Cale or Nate would have changed any of those issues.

 

[Foppa2118]

To be even more clear, IMO the problem isn't losing a captain, it's losing the leadership presence of both Landy and EJ.

They didn't have a captain last year either, but they didn't have these problems. They had health problems, but not these problems.

 

[LOFIN]

Naming a new captain ain't going to resolve shit. If you think changing the A to C with one of these guys is going to make a difference, lol.