Confirmed with Link: Avs sign Jarome Iginla (3 years, $16M)

Foppa2118

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I get railed every time I say this, but Duchene has never worked well with PF types. Iggy might be tried on that line in camp/preseason, but he won't stay there.

I will gladly admit I am wrong if Iggy works well with Duchene (hell, I will be thrilled as Iggy provides the element missing on that line).

That's not exactly true, he showed good chemistry with McGinn last year, and also with Downie who plays the same role as a PF but in a smaller body. Duchene was much pickier about his linemates earlier in his career than he is now, where he's learned to adjust better.

Dutchy has also never had a PF type like Iggy who can read the play and wait for a great pass to snipe.

The closest he had was Stewart, and they didn't work because Stewart had problems with consistency and work ethic, and was unable to adjust himself.
 

henchman21

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That's not exactly true, he showed good chemistry with McGinn last year, and also with Downie who plays the same role as a PF but in a smaller body. Duchene was much pickier about his linemates earlier in his career than he is now, where he's learned to adjust better.

Dutchy has also never had a PF type like Iggy who can read the play and wait for a great pass to snipe.

The closest he had was Stewart, and they didn't work because Stewart had problems with consistency and work ethic, and was unable to adjust himself.

McGinn and Downie are not power forwards. Downie isn't even close... he is a pest with some skill. McGinn is a grinder with a decent shot, that is a different sort of game than what a power forward plays. Duchene has had chances with Landy and Stewart. Both were limited because they simply didn't work. Duchene is seemingly one of those players that is tough to develop chemistry with. I would LOVE to be wrong here, but I just don't see it happening.

Who is Duchene passing to on that line? O'Reilly is a good option but I think he'd work better with a shooter and then MacK and Landy benefit from Tanguay's passing.

Who did he pass to last year? It was Duchene/ROR with any random player. Tangs is better than any random player (sans MacKinnon) that was put on that line last season. Tangs also has a very underrated shot... if only he would ever use it.
 

Foppa2118

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McGinn and Downie are not power forwards. Downie isn't even close... he is a pest with some skill. McGinn is a grinder with a decent shot, that is a different sort of game than what a power forward plays. Duchene has had chances with Landy and Stewart. Both were limited because they simply didn't work. Duchene is seemingly one of those players that is tough to develop chemistry with. I would LOVE to be wrong here, but I just don't see it happening.

The only different between McGinn and Downie and what you're considering a power forward, is their weight. They play the same style. Their job is to go hard into the corners and get the puck to Duchene, finish their checks, be hard to play against, and go to the net for rebounds, screens, and passes. This is Iginla's style as well.

Their weight has nothing to do with how well they'll click with Duchene. Comparing Stewart not working to Iggy is a bit of a slap in the face too. He doesn't have the work ethic or smarts that Iginla has.

That leaves just one power forward that didn't quite work in Landy, and he's young himself. Him not being able to adjust quite as well may have been due to his own inexperience, the same way Duchene found it much harder to adjust early in his career. Landy never really clicked with Stastny up until last year either.

I don't see Duchene's past as a reason to doubt how well Iggy may work with him. Iginla's one of the most skilled power forwards in the league, and doesn't need the puck on his stick to be successful. That's a perfect fit for Duchene and O'Reilly who are great with the puck.

He had an issue finding chemistry earlier in his career, but since then he has found chemistry with many players. Mueller, Fleishchman, PAP, Downie, McGinn, O'Reilly, all guys he clicked very well with. The first three were more his natural fit, while I doubt he would have clicked with the latter three when he first broke into the league. It was all part of the learning curve he had to go through coming out of junior, and why he talks so often about how much he learned since then.
 
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Bubba Thudd

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I want Iginla with Duchene and ROR. They need some toughness on their line.

Landy and MacK already have that, and can cover for Tanguay's lack of grit.
 

henchman21

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The only different between McGinn and Downie and what you're considering a power forward, is their weight. They play the same style. Their job is to go hard into the corners and get the puck to Duchene, finish their checks, be hard to play against, and go to the net for rebounds, screens, and passes. This is Iginla's style as well.

Their weight has nothing to do with how well they'll click with Duchene. Comparing Stewart not working to Iggy is a bit of a slap in the face too. He doesn't have the work ethic or smarts that Iginla has.

That leaves just one power forward that didn't quite work in Landy, and he's young himself. Him not being able to adjust quite as well may have been due to his own inexperience, the same way Duchene found it much harder to adjust early in his career.

I don't see Duchene's past as a reason to doubt how well Iggy may work with him. Iginla's one of the most skilled power forwards in the league, and doesn't need the puck on his stick to be successful. That's a perfect fit for Duchene and O'Reilly who are great with the puck.

He had an issue finding chemistry earlier in his career, but since then he has found chemistry with many players. Mueller, Fleishchman, PAP, Downie, McGinn, O'Reilly, all guys he clicked very well with. The first three were more his natural fit, while I doubt he would have clicked with the latter three when he first broke into the league. It was all part of the learning curve he had to go through coming out of junior, and why he talks so often about how much he learned since then.

Like I said... I hope I am wrong. There has just been NO evidence that he can play well with that type since juniors... and I wouldn't call OHL Grachev a power forward. He was really more of a big skilled player that could skate. Overall, it is really pointless to debate this... people who want Iggy on Duchene's line are always going to say that it will work now. People that don't think it will work (like me) will just say that Duchene hasn't proven it will work. Neither of us will change our minds until the season starts.

That said... if Downie is a power forward, Marchand is an elite one... With power forwards size and strength are a very important aspect of their games. They can do a bit of everything well.

Also as I said, I am open to an avatar bet on this. I welcome any takers.
 

Foppa2118

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Like I said... I hope I am wrong. There has just been NO evidence that he can play well with that type since juniors... and I wouldn't call OHL Grachev a power forward. He was really more of a big skilled player that could skate. Overall, it is really pointless to debate this... people who want Iggy on Duchene's line are always going to say that it will work now. People that don't think it will work (like me) will just say that Duchene hasn't proven it will work. Neither of us will change our minds until the season starts.

That said... if Downie is a power forward, Marchand is an elite one... With power forwards size and strength are a very important aspect of their games. They can do a bit of everything well.

Also as I said, I am open to an avatar bet on this. I welcome any takers.

Absolutely size and strength plays a role in a power forwards game, but I don't see how it could play any role in chemistry with Duchene. Just because a player is stronger than Downie or McGinn doesn't mean he's going to have less success with Dutchy. The comparison is in their style of play, and how they approach the game.

I thinks Iginla will have a very similar approach to his role on that line with Duchene and O'Reilly as McGinn did, except he'll be smarter about finding the holes to open himself up for passes, and finish plays better than Ginner. Other than that he'll play a strong game in the corners, go hard to the net for some dirty goals, and let Dutchy and ROR make all the plays.
 

henchman21

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Absolutely size and strength plays a role in a power forwards game, but I don't see how it could play any role in chemistry with Duchene. Just because a player is stronger than Downie or McGinn doesn't mean he's going to have less success with Dutchy. The comparison is in their style of play, and how they approach the game.

I thinks Iginla will have a very similar approach to his role on that line with Duchene and O'Reilly as McGinn did, except he'll be smarter about finding the holes to open himself up for passes, and finish plays better than Ginner. Other than that he'll play a strong game in the corners, go hard to the net for some dirty goals, and let Dutchy and ROR make all the plays.

Iggy plays a much closer style to Landy than he does McGinn. Iginla likes the puck a hell of a lot more than McGinn/Downie/etc and that is a huge factor when playing with Duchene. If Duchene doesn't have the puck, he isn't nearly as effective. That is why Landy and Duchene never clicked in their brief times togther... Landy likes the puck and plays well with it (and without it to), but that limits the amount of time Duchene has with it. ROR might be the very best Av without the puck and that is number 1 reason he clicks with Duchene so well. Grinders like McGinn are not great with the puck, so they know to give it to Duchene. PAP in the lockout year was manly an outlet on the right boards that would just pass the puck to Duchene streaking up the middle. I could go on, but Duchene shines when he has the puck and not so much without it.
 

tigervixxxen

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With Iginla, Nate and Landy wouldn't that be too little puck to go around too? I think their games are too similar for that to be the best combo. I know they aren't the same but more similar than any other top 6 combo. I see both sides though, I agree Duchene doesn't click with everyone. And if he doesn't click with Iginla then they'll figure out something that works.
 

henchman21

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With Iginla, Nate and Landy wouldn't that be too little puck to go around too? I think their games are too similar for that to be the best combo. I know they aren't the same but more similar than any other top 6 combo. I see both sides though, I agree Duchene doesn't click with everyone. And if he doesn't click with Iginla then they'll figure out something that works.

IMO all of them are very good without the puck, and Landy (especially) and MacK are underrated playmakers. Also, all of them are pretty unselfish players with the puck and have knacks for moving to the right areas without it.

Maybe Iginla will work and I will have to eat a plate full of crow... for balance sake, I hope it does. I just don't think it will.
 

Taak19

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Tanguay and Iggy have previous chemistry so I'd like to see -

ROR Duchene Landy
Tangs Nate Iggy

or swap ROR and Landy if Landy doesn't play right.
 

Foppa2118

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Iggy plays a much closer style to Landy than he does McGinn. Iginla likes the puck a hell of a lot more than McGinn/Downie/etc and that is a huge factor when playing with Duchene. If Duchene doesn't have the puck, he isn't nearly as effective. That is why Landy and Duchene never clicked in their brief times togther... Landy likes the puck and plays well with it (and without it to), but that limits the amount of time Duchene has with it. ROR might be the very best Av without the puck and that is number 1 reason he clicks with Duchene so well. Grinders like McGinn are not great with the puck, so they know to give it to Duchene. PAP in the lockout year was manly an outlet on the right boards that would just pass the puck to Duchene streaking up the middle. I could go on, but Duchene shines when he has the puck and not so much without it.

You contradicted your argument there a bit though in saying Duchene isn't as effective if he doesn't have the puck. Putting Tanguay on his wing just means he will have the puck less than if Iggy was there.

Also, while ROR is very good without the puck, that doesn't mean he approaches the game that way in the offensive zone. That's why him and Duchene work off each other so well. He spends a lot more time with the puck on his stick than Iginla does too. Not near as much as when he's at center, but Duchene often backs off to let O'Reilly win battles and make a great pass to him with time and space.

This has been his biggest adjustment in his game the last couple years. The way he uses and trusts his linemates more. It's a big reason why he had trouble finding chemistry with wingers early in his career. I'm pretty sure there's no way he would have been able to find success playing with O'Reilly his first couple years in the league.

I don't think Landy's brief stint with a lack of success on Duchene's wing is attributable to power forwards in general not being a good fit. That's probably something that we'll just disagree on no matter what. I do think there will be much more mixing and matching in the top 6 this year than last year though, and actually wouldn't be surprised if at some point this year they ended up spending time together again and working it out. If not, I don't think that means there's a correlation with Iginla having success or not.

Landy also skates with the puck in the neutral zone a hell of a lot more than Iginla does. If you look at his 30 goals from last year, he's barely touching the puck in the plays. He's driving the net and/or one touching the puck, or dishing to someone else in transition while opening himself up to receive a pass.



I'll also make a similar statement as you in that I could be wrong and he very well may not work. I just believe strongly that Duchene's struggles to find chemistry were limited to his his first 2-3 years, not the last couple where's he's really matured in that area. I'm much more worried about Iggy not clicking because of him notoriously starting slow, than I am his style of play.
 
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henchman21

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ROR didn't handle the puck a great deal in the offensive zone, and neither did any of Duchene's linemates. Duchene does the bulk of the work with the puck and the others play off what he is doing. I'm not saying ROR never handles the puck, but compared to what Landy did with Stastny it isn't even a close comparison.

Tangs doesn't need the puck to be effective. I would put him right behind ROR in that category. Part of being a power forward is exerting your physical dominance with the puck and carrying it to where you need it to be through sheer force. You have to have the puck to do that. Iggy is doing less of that as his career goes on, but it is still a part of his game. Don't just look at his goals, watch the rest of his game. He isn't Landy with the puck, but he handles it a good amount. I know I will never convince you, and you will never convince me. Only results will do that. Let's see during the season who ends up right.
 

Foppa2118

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ROR didn't handle the puck a great deal in the offensive zone, and neither did any of Duchene's linemates. Duchene does the bulk of the work with the puck and the others play off what he is doing. I'm not saying ROR never handles the puck, but compared to what Landy did with Stastny it isn't even a close comparison.

Well that's a different topic. Duchene and Stastny don't appraoch the same at all either. Stastny is a quick give and go guy. Duchene likes more time with the puck, but gets in trouble if he's doing it all himself. Hence, why he worked so well with O'Reilly because he was so good at winning puck battles and making great underrated passes to Duchene.

Landy handles the puck more than O'Reilly in transition I'll agree, but we're probably straying from the point focuses too much on that.

Tangs doesn't need the puck to be effective. I would put him right behind ROR in that category. Part of being a power forward is exerting your physical dominance with the puck and carrying it to where you need it to be through sheer force. You have to have the puck to do that. Iggy is doing less of that as his career goes on, but it is still a part of his game. Don't just look at his goals, watch the rest of his game. He isn't Landy with the puck, but he handles it a good amount. I know I will never convince you, and you will never convince me. Only results will do that. Let's see during the season who ends up right.

Got to disagree with you here. Tangs doesn't really have a role at all unless he has the puck. He's not a liability defensively at this stage in his career, but he's not contributing a whole lot in the offensive zone or the neutral zone if he's not making plays with the puck. Either way he spends a lot more time with the puck than Iginla does.

I know we probably won't see eye to eye on this, but at least it's nice to have a good conversation about hockey again knowing that the season's right around the corner.
 

henchman21

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Got to disagree with you here. Tangs doesn't really have a role at all unless he has the puck. He's not a liability defensively at this stage in his career, but he's not contributing a whole lot in the offensive zone or the neutral zone if he's not making plays with the puck. Either way he spends a lot more time with the puck than Iginla does.

Tangs is a master at finding a soft spot in the offensive zone, receiving a pass, and making a quick move and pass to somebody for an easy goal. That is how he has made his living in the NHL. He also has a really quick shot when he actually wants to use it (which is almost never).

If Tangs is with Duchene and ROR... we will see a lot of plays where Duchene does his spin moves, dishes to Tangs who makes a quick move and passes to ROR for an easy tap in goal.
 

cgf

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Either way our top 6 looks ridiculous for as long as everyone's healthy, whether it's iggy with Dutchy&ROR and tangers with mack&landy or vice versa.

Though I do think surrounding MacK with Landy and iggy could help him as he learns to center the harder minutes game in and game out as that would be one of the strongest and toughest high-skill lines out there with Landy being exceptional defensively and iggy still being really good.

The Dutchy line wouldn't hit much but neither Dutchy nor ROR get pushed around, and they can assert themselves in board battles so it's not like that line would be soft, and with McG getting bumped up when Tanguay gets hurt they'll have a big hitter eventually to.
 

CobraAcesS

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One area where Landeskog and Duchene actually had chemistry was on the penalty kill. They were not used together that long, but they were a scoring threat every time they were out there.

I wouldn't rule out them being able to play together now after another year of growth.

As far as Iginla goes... He does not need the puck on his stick much at all, he needs someone who can pass to him for one timers and rebounds. Something Duchene and O'Reilly will be great at.

Iginla still has one of the most feared one timers/slap shots in the league, which is also why Tanguay worked so well with him.

Tanguay also played a lot of center with Iginla because of the fact that they didn't have any better options. People forget that too...

I think Duchene adapts to his line mates now, when he isn't scoring goals hes setting people up, when his shots are going in, he shoots more. He can do both much more effectively, which is also why he didn't fall off the map when he was not able to buy a goal in 10 plus games.

I'm really not sure where anyone is getting the idea that Iginla needs to carry the puck up the ice on a regular basis. Hes known for physical play, and his shot.
 

the_fan

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I'm still puzzled as to why the Avs haven't done an official introduction of Iginla like they've done with every other big name players they've signed.
 

MvpKinnon

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As far as Iginla goes... He does not need the puck on his stick much at all, he needs someone who can pass to him for one timers and rebounds. Something Duchene and O'Reilly will be great at.

I agree. Which is why I'd like to see them try

ROR-Dutchy-Iggy
Landy-Mack-Tangs

ROR and Dutchy's line was lacking defensively imo. Iggy would help with that too.
 
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bohlmeister

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I agree. Which is why I'd like to see them try

ROR-Dutchy-Iggy
Landy-Mack-Tangs

ROR and Dutchy's line was lacking defensively imo. Iggy would help with that too.

IMO Tangs is better defensively than Iginla as well. And likely has better wheels. I think this is the best option.
 

Foppa2118

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Shocker, Chambers made up the lines just like we already knew.

Adrian Dater @adater · 1h

Patrick Roy says the top two lines will be this:
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Tanguay
O'Reilly-Duchene-Iginla
 

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