Rumor: AVS Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics)

[tigervixxxen]

Do I really need to preface by saying we aren't going to get a NHL player for a 7th?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That's not worth a pick, I'll pass.

I dont understand this. How is a good veteran #5/6 Dman not worth a pick?


Its not like he's in his mid 30's already. The dude is only 29 years old. Would shore up the bottom pairing for the next 2-3 years at least if we wanted to keep him around.


It's not like we're gonna be moving a 1st or 2nd for him. It would be a 3rd at most and we could probably get him for a 4th + one of our struggling prospects in all honesty.


Sometimes I'm amazed at how much we value picks, especially these late ones. The chances of that 4th round pick being a better player then Polak is so slim. And it's not like we're in a spot where we need every single pick we can get. We need 1st/2nd round picks to stock up on high end prospects, but we've got plenty of depth pieces. And Roy/Joe seems like they plan to bring in at least 1-2 depth prospects from Europe every year as well.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

No thanks to Polak, and why would we want to re-sign him? Do we really want another 3M 3rd pairing defender? That's a lot of money tied up to one side of the defense.

I'd be perfectly content with this team doing nothing at the deadline, other than letting the kids play.

 

[tigervixxxen]

We should not be moving out 3rds and 4th like those are candy. Yes we need every pick we can get. Obviously they don't all work out but that's the point, the more you get the more chance you have at getting one that does. Our recent 3rd and 4th have been Martin, Geertsen, Wood, Beaudin and Mironov. We absolutely need more of those, they might not be NHL players but they aren't nobodies either. We aren't one piece away. When are we going to commit to development and stop sacrificing it for short term gratification? We don't need to make another Brad Stuart deal, that's the last thing this org needs. And this guy is a rental? What is the purpose? To marginally upgrade the D? Just call up Zadorov for god sakes, that's free. We need to be moving guys out and getting picks in return. Why can't that be us? We just have to ride our collection of marginal talent to the end every year. I'm not saying oh our 4th round picks are so precious they can't ever be moved but no I'm not getting the upside here.

 

[Ivan13]

Like I said before, lets actually ice the best team possible before making moves. And 3rd rounders are valuable if you have good scouts, and I'd like to believe we have those.

 

[JoemAvs]

We should not be moving out 3rds and 4th like those are candy. Yes we need every pick we can get. Obviously they don't all work out but that's the point, the more you get the more chance you have at getting one that does. Our recent 3rd and 4th have been Martin, Geertsen, Wood, Beaudin and Mironov. We absolutely need more of those, they might not be NHL players but they aren't nobodies either. We aren't one piece away. When are we going to commit to development and stop sacrificing it for short term gratification? We don't need to make another Brad Stuart deal, that's the last thing this org needs. And this guy is a rental? What is the purpose? To marginally upgrade the D? Just call up Zadorov for god sakes, that's free. We need to be moving guys out and getting picks in return. Why can't that be us? We just have to ride our collection of marginal talent to the end every year. I'm not saying oh our 4th round picks are so precious they can't ever be moved but no I'm not getting the upside here.

Probably never. Aside from maybe the Leafs (I haven't checked but it would make sense), we are probably the only team that had less picks during their rebuilding phase than any team that just held on to their 7 picks a year.

We didn't have 7 picks / year while we were rebuilding with a roster completely devoid of any real talent that had an impact on our current roster. Everyone should take a look at our 2008-2009 roster if they get impatient once in a while. http://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/COL/2009.html

EDIT: Aside from Tanguay (for Jones), Galiardi who got traded for McGinn who got traded for Zads (minor impact on that trade), McLeod, EJ (who we got for Stewart and Shattenkirk) and the 2nd for Liles (don't know what happened with that. Did we trade it for Berra?), we got nothing out of it prospect or player wise.

That is one key piece (maybe 1.5 half if you want to factor in McGinn somehow). Everything else we had to gain throught the draft/trade/UFA in the last 7 years. And we did not even have many picks since then.
We are doing remarkably well given the circumstances.

Lacroix lived in a pre-cap world and did not really value picks. Sakic has been better especially recently but he also "learned" under Lacroix and traded 2nds for marginal players like Stuart and Berra.

They have changed a bit recently but looking at the Hejda situation last year, I don't really believe that they value picks as highly as they should.
And this whole section on hfboards mostly applauded them for it.

The Avs also never really have been sellers for some reason. That is ridiculous when you consider that we have only made the playoffs twice in the last 7 years.


This just might be the biggest issue and worry I have when it comes to the future of this team. Our management (with the fanbase applauding it) has gone for the instant gratification way too often and not really kept an eye on the future.

I mean half the board wants to trade our 1st for some winger that we may or may not re-sign right now just to give us an extra 2 % chance of making it to the show.

If our rebuild fails then simply because we have been too impatient and did not value our picks/ futures over mediocre short term success.




I really don't want Polak or someone similar but if they want to trade a 5th or a prospect they don't have in their future plans than I could live with it.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

I'm mostly looking forward to seeing which AHLers we ship out for other AHLers. So far Caron and Hamilton didn't work out but Clark and Gormley seem to be doing decent for San Antonio.

It also gives more of an insight as to what exactly they want to build down there.

 

[dahrougem2]

Do I really need to preface by saying we aren't going to get a NHL player for a 7th?

Of course not, which is why I said I'll pass on Polak

 

[Nzap]

EDIT: Aside from Tanguay (for Jones), Galiardi who got traded for McGinn who got traded for Zads (minor impact on that trade), McLeod, EJ (who we got for Stewart and Shattenkirk) and the 2nd for Liles (don't know what happened with that. Did we trade it for Berra?), we got nothing out of it prospect or player wise.

One of the Varly picks.

 

[JoemAvs]

One of the Varly picks.

Ah. Damn it. You are correct. Thank you. So Liles might also have gotten us 1/4 of Varlamov or however you would value it. Or he might have got us Mitchell Heard.

Oh well...

My point still stands .

 

[AvsRobin]

We can get a good bottom pairing d-man in the summer without giving up a pick for one now.

Giving up a pick now for a pending UFA and then being too much invested to back out when it comes to re-signing him and end up giving him a deal we'll regret. No thanks. (See Reto Berra)

 

[ABasin]

Polak? Meh. He's certainly an OK veteran 3rd pairing guy, but if they need an OK veteran 3rd pairing defenseman, they can just sign one over the Summer. Or they could even sign Polak over the Summer. No need to trade assets for a UFA-to-be who'd play 10 minutes per night.

If they could do it for a 6th round pick or something, fine. But Polak will go to a contender for more than that. I suspect that unlike Sakic, Shanahan knows what to do with a veteran UFA-to-be defender on a non-playoff team.

 

[AslanRH]

Polak? Meh. He's certainly an OK veteran 3rd pairing guy, but if they need an OK veteran 3rd pairing defenseman, they can just sign one over the Summer. Or they could even sign Polak over the Summer. No need to trade assets for a UFA-to-be who'd play 10 minutes per night.

If they could do it for a 6th round pick or something, fine. But Polak will go to a contender for more than that. I suspect that unlike Sakic, Shanahan knows what to do with a veteran UFA-to-be defender on a non-playoff team.

I think a guy like Polak would allow the 3rd to get more regular strength minutes and even more if they can handle some of the PK and/or PP time. The problem has been that Bigras' partner can't be trusted to be out late in the game to either hold a lead or chase the comeback.

I know the team isn't cup contenders, but they are still playoff contenders. I think your post perfectly sums up what the FO is going to have to deal with. Polak is good enough to help a contender, but can he be good enough to help this team lock down a playoff spot? What is that playoff experience worth to the team going forward? Is it worth a 4th or a 3rd? Is it worth a 5th + prospect?

Not saying this is enough, but if you can use guys who probably don't have a future here to pad that 6th or 5th, I think you have to try to make the move. I don't advocate moving 1sts or 2nds for short term fixes, but if you don't see a spot in the future for guys like Hishon, Everberg, Gormley, Smith, Siemens, etc then using them as currency to enhance the value of the late picks then you should without hesitation.

This team needs to start experiencing playoff hockey and all the experience and lessons that come with it. Clearly the FO values that experience, which is why they valued Stuart, Iginla, Briere, etc. Some lessons though can't be taught without the experience to go with it. It is time for this group to start learning what is required of them to play at the next level. I think the FO is willing

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Still have to clear a roster spot before we can trade a pick for a player, I believe.

EDIT: contract spot, not necessarily roster spot.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Serious question, do you have any issue with Iginla in our top 6 and if so what is your proposed solution for this year and next year?

He isn't in the top 6 so that is not an issue.

 

[agentblack]

Yeah TOR thinks they can get a 2nd for Polak. Apart of me thinks someone will pay that because they'll get Roszival flashbacks and be terrified of not having that insurance come playoff time.
I can see a contender doing so, but not us. Not to mention we'd have to send a contract back.
Plus we might be able to get him for free in the offseason (well not free) if we really wanted to go that route.

 

[cgf]

The reason to get polak is to try save Beauch from falling off a cliff before next season, to accelerate Bigras' development by giving him more minutes, and to push this team ahead of Minny/Nashville for a playoff spot in this important season. Waiting around for the summer accomplishes none of that.

You wanna change the way the media talks about us? Well getting into the playoffs in 2 of the 3 season Roykic have been in charge is how you do that.

 

[agentblack]

Yeah i see that but to pay a 3rd and probably Siemens for Polak? yeesh.

nvm about moving Siemens. He got seriously injured the other day.

 

[twostroke27]

Yeah i see that but to pay a 3rd and probably Siemens for Polak? yeesh.

nvm about moving Siemens. He got seriously injured the other day.

Again? Geeze it's time to cut our losses and move on at this point.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Holy cow, a 9 player trade.

Phaneuf to Ottawa.

 

[Kschey]

The reason to get polak is to try save Beauch from falling off a cliff before next season, to accelerate Bigras' development by giving him more minutes, and to push this team ahead of Minny/Nashville for a playoff spot in this important season. Waiting around for the summer accomplishes none of that.

You wanna change the way the media talks about us? Well getting into the playoffs in 2 of the 3 season Roykic have been in charge is how you do that.

Just call up Zads and play him 20+ minutes again. That'll do.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He isn't in the top 6 so that is not an issue.

I know that but he's supposed to be. Is it ok paying a 3/4th liner 5.3M?

Again? Geeze it's time to cut our losses and move on at this point.

He was carried off on a stretcher, not exactly like its his fault.

I totally get this team needs playoff experience but it's not shuffling the deck chairs that's going to bring us there. It's MacKinnon remembering how to score goals and handle the puck in the offensive zone that's going to get us there. Roy is right, it's up to the core to decide if they are going to do it or not. Sure it's nice to surround them with help but right now the difference between crossing that line or not is up to them.

 

[Freudian]

 

[AvsRobin]

#Sens get Phaneuf, Frattin, Bailey, Rupert and Donaghey in exchange for Cowen, Greening, Michalek, Lindberg and 2nd-rounder in 2017.

 

[tigervixxxen]

That doesn't sound like a whole lot to me quality I mean.