Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 2016-17 Part XXVI

[LieutenantDangle]

Hartnell bought out. Making room for something I wonder?

lets bring him in!

 

[henchman21]

my point is that you have to make a legit effort to push him out of the top 30 IMO.

That is where I disagree... I think there is a tier around ~25-~40 that could be debated either way with ease on many players. The differences would likely be semantics and preferences in that group. I prefer better defense and consistency in centers, if somebody prefers flash and offense more they'd rank Duchene higher. To me a player like Stepan is so much better defensively and produces nearly the same as Duchene that I rank him above. But if a team or somebody prefers 5 more goals a season over the defense, they would prefer Duchene.

I don't see Horvat is being that close... better than Duchene defensively already and coming into his own offensively. Next year I don't think it will be all that close between the two.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Gotta believe the Hartnell buyout is for Kovy. Also further explains the Panarin trade I think.

 

[hockeyfish]

Why the hell would a team wait until after expansion to buy out a player. Could they not plan 2weeks in advance?

 

[Avs44]

Why the hell would a team wait until after expansion to buy out a player. Could they not plan 2weeks in advance?

Probably finalized something with the Devils for Kovalchuk, is my best guess. Need the cap and opens up a roster spot for a winger.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

I'm not so much "anti-Duchene" as I just never bought in like others have.

He's a good player, to say otherwise would be absolutely ludicrous. But, I don't think he's going to return to this "60-70 point" echelon this season, or any other after that. I think he's already hit his offensive peak. I don't think he will stay in Denver after his current contract is up, and even if he wants to, given what the Avs have and are building, I don't think I want the Avs to pay him what his next contract will likely be.

I do think that certain fans have some "graduation goggles" when it comes to him, because of how much was made of him being an Avs fan growing up, they think that his childhood love of the team will outweigh his desire to win and his desire to move on after what will be either 8-10 years of frustration and losing.

I was on record back before we traded O'Reilly that I would've kept him (O'Reilly) and traded Duchene, as I think we would've gotten a lot better of a package back then. And I stand by that today. It doesn't mean that I'm necessarily anti-Duchene though.

Like I said, he's a good player, but I think Joe's got his trade valuation completely off the mark, and that's why he's not getting any offers he likes. But if he wants to go ahead and bring back a player who's clearly unhappy, and drop him into that locker room when they're trying to get younger (and will have players like MacKinnon who's still coming into his own, Jost, Compher, and maybe even Greer) and have him and his situation be a distraction every day until the trade deadline, then that's his decision; no matter how much I disagree with it.

Preach brotha.

Put yourself in the shoes of a gm trying to build a cup winner. Is Matt Duchene today the guy you want as your #1 centre? It's fair to project he returns to a 55ish point centre.

Does it fill you with confidence to picture Duchene going up against the Getzlaf and Crosby and whoever other top guns?

Not every team can have a top end franchise defining centre. Maybe Francis has decided if they'll never be strong up the middle to build up other areas of the team.

The Islanders won't be looking at Duchene as their #1. Neither would the preds.

Montreal or Carolina or the other rumoured options would be looking at Duchene as their #1. But that is Becuase he's all the is available. Not because he's their first choice.

Duchene is the only piece available and should command a good price. But if you're a rival gm this is a guy you kick the tires in before making the deal. It's not the guy you sell the farm for without thinking twice.

 

[JoemAvs]

Gotta believe the Hartnell buyout is for Kovy. Also further explains the Panarin trade I think.

I just read somewhere that the sense is right now that Kovy will return to the KHL next season...

Found it:


https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/880438862723657729


Could be that this guy is full of crap but given that Portzline stated earlier this week that the Jackets are looking to bring in another top6 fwd (preferably a C) and only see Kovalchuk of some sort of a backup plan to this or as additional move, I wouldn't be surprised if something big goes down soon in Columbus.

Especially given the rumors out there in the national media that Jarmo really wants to go for it in the next couple of years...


Given that they just cleared cap (wouldn't have to do that for a guy like Reinhart), I certainly have my hopes up a bit.

CBJ is probably our best bet at this point if NSH and CAR are not willing to pay up...

 

[CalderKing21]

A player getting his agent involved because he's ready to move on is not going to re-sign here.

Duchene is gone. Either traded within the next two years or he'll sign somewhere else.

When the player himself talks in more glowing terms of the opponents team than his own at trade deadline and says to the media that he's "open to being traded" what more should he do? Get a "trade me" face tattoo? Duchene is mentally checked out already and if he's brought back for next season it's a coinflip if he can regain composure or just be a walking dead for Avs.

I think the agent being involved was just simply to find a quicker end to the circus.
They've dangled him for over a year now and it was public as hell. He likely just wanted his agent to address Sakic and get an answer so Duchene could have some peace of mind.

MD didn't take anything close to a "discount" on his current deal (and I'm not saying that you said he did, it's part of a larger overall point), so why should we assume that he's not going to ask for 6M at minimum on his next deal (and likely more given his name cache)?

The Avs drafted a Duchene replacement in Jost last season (pretty obvious, if you ask me), and I would hope that they don't want to even pay Duchene 6M on his next contract. As a fan, I don't really want a part of that.

I think it just meant that the Avs dangled the 2 pieces they felt could bring back the most value without trading guys that Sakic himself handpicked.
Duchene and Landeskos were the most established NHL guys on the Avs and signed to semi long term deals so you can trade them away with a bit a cost control for the other team and potentially gain a top haul in return.

 

[henchman21]

Especially given the rumors out there in the national media that Jarmo really wants to go for it in the next couple of years...

He really should before the Werenski deal kicks in (and maybe Wennberg's if he gets bridged).

 

[CobraAcesS]

That is where I disagree... I think there is a tier around ~25-~40 that could be debated either way with ease on many players. The differences would likely be semantics and preferences in that group. I prefer better defense and consistency in centers, if somebody prefers flash and offense more they'd rank Duchene higher. To me a player like Stepan is so much better defensively and produces nearly the same as Duchene that I rank him above. But if a team or somebody prefers 5 more goals a season over the defense, they would prefer Duchene.

I don't see Horvat is being that close... better than Duchene defensively already and coming into his own offensively. Next year I don't think it will be all that close between the two.

It's interesting you'd say all the way to 40. That just seems like even more of a stretch to me. I don't want to get into a big debate with you because I understand your point of view clearly.

Your opinion as someone who has some access to the circles in the NHL is interesting though. Especially because if your opinion is shared by some NHL GMs, then there is far less chance Sakic gets anything close to what hes asking. All it takes is one though.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I'd be fine with a Duchene to CBJ deal honestly. They are out of the conference, and at this point, I think they may be one of the teams that may actually come close to meeting Sakic's demands.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

As far as NAS is concerns it makes sense Sakic asked for Ekholm and until the playoffs started I wouldn't be surprised that Poile was ok with that but he needed Ekholm for a playoff run so he needed to wait However two things is making this deal impossible now:
1. Ekholm had a great playoffs
2. NAS went all the way to the SC finals and that was mainly due to their top-4.

So no surprise he doesn't want to break them up anymore. They came really close to winning it all without RyJo and Fiala so I'm sure they don't want to tinker too much. They know they need to replace both Fisher and Neal but they will most likely replace them by offering mostly if not all futures (Fiala not included).

 

[Balthazar]

I hope that Sakic would have offered CBJ to take Hartnell if he were to trade Duchene there.

 

[tucker3434]

Kovalchuk or Duchene.

Kovalchuk AND Duchene?

I'd be fine with a Duchene to CBJ deal honestly. They are out of the conference, and at this point, I think they may be one of the teams that may actually come close to meeting Sakic's demands.

Murray seems like A pretty close fit to what Sakic is after. But, who knows?

 

[henchman21]

It's interesting you'd say all the way to 40. That just seems like even more of a stretch to me. I don't want to get into a big debate with you because I understand your point of view clearly.

Your opinion as someone who has some access to the circles in the NHL is interesting though. Especially because if your opinion is shared by some NHL GMs, then there is far less chance Sakic gets anything close to what hes asking. All it takes is one though.

I'd not saying Duchene would be #40 (probably early 30s around 32-33-34)... but that you could debate the merits of Duchene vs Tyler Johnson at this stage. I'd prefer Duchene, but I get liking Johnson and his proven ability in the playoffs. There isn't one right answer to this, but Duchene is right in that tier with Stepan, Horvat and Kesler IMO.

 

[Balthazar]

As far as NAS is concerns it makes sense Sakic asked for Ekholm and until the playoffs started I wouldn't be surprised that Poile was ok with that but he needed Ekholm for a playoff run so he needed to wait However two things is making this deal impossible now:
1. Ekholm had a great playoffs
2. NAS went all the way to the SC finals and that was mainly due to their top-4.

So no surprise he doesn't want to break them up anymore. They came really close to winning it all without RyJo and Fiala so I'm sure they don't want to tinker too much. They know they need to replace both Fisher and Neal but they will most likely replace them by offering mostly if not all futures (Fiala not included).

We don't need one of their top 4, they're all too old. I hope Sakic isn't sticking on that. However, Nashville need Duchene and they believe that their window is now. A good GM could easily fleece Nashville without even asking for their top 4. Tell Poile that he can keep his beloved top 4 and add Duchene on top of that and see what you can get.

 

[Murzu]

CBJ fans would butcher me if they read this but I'd very much like

Murray + PLD for Duchene

or

Murray + 2018 1st + Björkstrand for Duchene and something not too valuable.

Kovalchuk AND Duchene?

Murray seems like A pretty close fit to what Sakic is after. But, who knows?

They would be so stacked.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

We don't need one of their top 4, they're all too old. I hope Sakic isn't sticking on that. However, Nashville need Duchene and they believe that their window is now. A good GM could easily fleece Nashville without even asking for their top 4.

I'd take Ekholm in a heart beat if he was available even though he is 1-2 years older than what Sakic wants.

I know they need Duchene. I'm just saying they are not gonna use anything significant from their roster to get him because they already lost Neal.

 

[JoemAvs]

I hope that Sakic would have offered CBJ to take Hartnell if he were to trade Duchene there.

Pretty sure that Hartnell would not waive his NMC for our current dumpsterfire.

Yeah at this point if Sakic insists on a roster D, Murray is probably our only legit option.

Lets just hope that Bjorkstrand (could be available after they got Panarin) + 1st head our way as well with the Avs also adding a bit.

 

[Balthazar]

I'd be OK to go with Zadorov, Murray and Bigras on the left side for the next couple of years and see if one of them becomes a legit top pairing guy. At the moment all 3 are good enough to play 2nd pairing.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I'd not saying Duchene would be #40 (probably early 30s around 32-33-34)... but that you could debate the merits of Duchene vs Tyler Johnson at this stage. I'd prefer Duchene, but I get liking Johnson and his proven ability in the playoffs. There isn't one right answer to this, but Duchene is right in that tier with Stepan, Horvat and Kesler IMO.

Fair enough

 

[JoemAvs]

http://www.dispatch.com/sports/20170629/blue-jackets--jackets-are-linked-to-some-big-names


So Portzline speculating that the Avs would have asked for Murray + Jenner + maybe a 1st...

Not sure I want Jenner over a couple of their prospects but if they get that 1st included, I would be pretty ok with that deal...

 

[cgf]

I just read somewhere that the sense is right now that Kovy will return to the KHL next season...

Found it:


https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/880438862723657729


Could be that this guy is full of crap but given that Portzline stated earlier this week that the Jackets are looking to bring in another top6 fwd (preferably a C) and only see Kovalchuk of some sort of a backup plan to this or as additional move, I wouldn't be surprised if something big goes down soon in Columbus.

Especially given the rumors out there in the national media that Jarmo really wants to go for it in the next couple of years...


Given that they just cleared cap (wouldn't have to do that for a guy like Reinhart), I certainly have my hopes up a bit.

CBJ is probably our best bet at this point if NSH and CAR are not willing to pay up...

I may underestimate Murray, but unless retention, Bigras, and maybe someone like Henry, gets them to add PLD or Bjorkstrand; none of their offers really excite me.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I may underestimate Murray, but unless retention, Bigras, and maybe someone like Henry, gets them to add PLD or Bjorkstrand; none of their offers really excite me.

I probably over rate Murray, and I agree with you lol. His injury history is a legit concern. I can argue all day that he has more potential left and is better than hes been given credit for, but I have nothing when it comes to his issue with injuries.

 

[cgf]

I'd be OK to go with Zadorov, Murray and Bigras on the left side for the next couple of years and see if one of them becomes a legit top pairing guy. At the moment all 3 are good enough to play 2nd pairing.

We really should still use our 1st next year on a LHD if we get Murray without sending back Bigras. If it comes to it we can move Murray or Bigras down the road, if one is pushed out by our 2018 1st, Zadorov, and the other.