Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part X | Offseason Blues

[Vaslof]

Call me an optimist but I think the top line repeats next year. Mack attack is legit and I think Rantanen can be even better next season.

The bolded is what I've been thinking. We might have seen maximum MacKinnon last season, but Rantanen still has another level in him.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Injuries and inconsistent play happen to every team.

Schwartz missing 20 games and Edmunson missing 13 didn't cost the Blues a playoff spot when pretty much everyone else on St. Louis stayed healthy - though you may be on to something with Jake Allen having another meltdown.

Yeah we lost MacKinnon, Barrie, EJ, Varly, Bernier all for significant stretches. Jost was even coming off of injury to start the year.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Yeah we lost MacKinnon, Barrie, EJ, Varly, Bernier all for significant stretches. Jost was even coming off of injury to start the year.

Plus Andrighetto and Barberio with day-to-day scratches that turned into 3+ month-ish mystery injuries. These guys might have been depth players but for a rebuilding team like we were last year still of importance.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Assuming our remaining RFAs(Nemeth, Martins, Geertsen, Graves) sign, we will be at 46 of 50 contracts. About $15m in cap space.

25 F
16 D
5 G

The rumours of Boikov and Lindholm going back to Europe haven’t seemed to pick up any steam, as of now they are part of the 46.

Joe still has room to go and acquire a 2nd line forward for a pick and prospect, and then add a couple of forward bodies through camp. We will need to see how many of the incoming rookie forwards(Barron, Lewis, etc.) actually need ECHL time, so a couple of more AHL vets makes sense.

 

[Stealth JD]

Injuries and inconsistent play happen to every team.

Schwartz missing 20 games and Edmunson missing 13 didn't cost the Blues a playoff spot when pretty much everyone else on St. Louis stayed healthy - though you may be on to something with Jake Allen having another meltdown.

Agreed. And Allen is the biggest question mark. I just wanted to touch on the point that STL was a mediocre team from Jan-Apr. and needed to retool to keep up. They absolutely needed to do so, and did. On paper they're markedly improved from the team they iced on opening night last year, to the point that I think their management group considers them "all-in" and Cup contenders. The magnitude of the changes on a club that missed by 1-point last year were pretty profound, even by the fans' expectations. We're ultimately expecting them to fail in the most painful way imaginable, but to this point STL is feeling like Charlie Brown about to kick the **** out of that football that Lucy's holding.

I'll butt out of your guys' forum, but I wanted to provide a bit of color. This division is terrifying and I really want to see Karlsson go to Dallas or Colorado just for the insanity of it all. I remember the hockey world ridiculing Joe Sakic over the Duchene drama, but he's on the verge of building a monster (thanks largely to Dorian & Melnyk) in Denver as that core is shaping up really nicely. Another big gun in Colorado would be cool to see. STL missed last year because of depth...it's a very real concern.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Agreed. And Allen is the biggest question mark. I just wanted to touch on the point that STL was a mediocre team from Jan-Apr. and needed to retool to keep up. They absolutely needed to do so, and did. On paper they're markedly improved from the team they iced on opening night last year, to the point that I think their management group considers them "all-in" and Cup contenders. The magnitude of the changes on a club that missed by 1-point last year were pretty profound, even by the fans' expectations. We're ultimately expecting them to fail in the most painful way imaginable, but to this point STL is feel like Charlie Brown about to kick the **** out of that football that Lucy's holding.

I'll butt out of your guys' forum, but I wanted to provide a bit of color. This division is terrifying and I really want to see Karlsson go to Dallas or Colorado just for the insanity of it all. I remember the hockey world ridiculing Joe Sakic over the Duchene drama, but he's on the verge of building a monster (thanks largely to Dorian & Melnyk) in Denver as that core is shaping up really nicely. Another big gun in Colorado would be cool to see. STL missed last year because of depth...it's a very real concern.

No need to butt out of this forum, very good insight like that is appreciated around here. St Louis looks great on paper apart from goaltending, hope they do well (except against us )

 

[Raucherhusten]

Agreed. And Allen is the biggest question mark. I just wanted to touch on the point that STL was a mediocre team from Jan-Apr. and needed to retool to keep up. They absolutely needed to do so, and did. On paper they're markedly improved from the team they iced on opening night last year, to the point that I think their management group considers them "all-in" and Cup contenders. The magnitude of the changes on a club that missed by 1-point last year were pretty profound, even by the fans' expectations. We're ultimately expecting them to fail in the most painful way imaginable, but to this point STL is feeling like Charlie Brown about to kick the **** out of that football that Lucy's holding.

I'll butt out of your guys' forum, but I wanted to provide a bit of color. This division is terrifying and I really want to see Karlsson go to Dallas or Colorado just for the insanity of it all. I remember the hockey world ridiculing Joe Sakic over the Duchene drama, but he's on the verge of building a monster (thanks largely to Dorian & Melnyk) in Denver as that core is shaping up really nicely. Another big gun in Colorado would be cool to see. STL missed last year because of depth...it's a very real concern.

As long as we leave Dallas and Minni in the dust it's all good

 

[CobraAcesS]

As long as we leave Dallas and Minni in the dust it's all good

Yeah, add Chicago to that lol

 

[Raucherhusten]

Yeah, add Chicago to that lol

Honestly forgot about them. They are the ONE team in the Central i'm not expecting anything good any more. Their Top D being 33/34 might be the reason for feeling comfortable (and a little bit cocky) that the Avs should be the better team for the next 5+ years.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Honestly forgot about them. They are the ONE team in the Central i'm not expecting anything good any more. Their Top D being 33/34 might be the reason for feeling comfortable (and a little bit cocky) that the Avs should be the better team for the next 5+ years.

I won't toss Chicago aside yet, but I will root for their continued demise.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Honestly forgot about them. They are the ONE team in the Central i'm not expecting anything good any more. Their Top D being 33/34 might be the reason for feeling comfortable (and a little bit cocky) that the Avs should be the better team for the next 5+ years.

Minnesota and Chicago are the two on the fast track to nowhere but down.

 

[chet1926]

I understand the second line thing but as a team last year we didn't have a problem scoring goals .

Well when your first line has the year they did, goal totals are going to look pretty good. The first line combined for 83 goals, that is a ton. To put that in perspective the combined total for Kerfoot, Soderberg, Comeau, Nieto, Compher and Jost was 88.

It would be nice to at least have a couple of other guys that can be reliable 20+ goal scorers. Kerfoot potted 19 last year, but honestly I'd be more inclined to pencil him around 15, he just reminds me on Tanguay with a crappier shot, hopefully Jost can improve to 20+ I fully expect him to get into this category; if he doesn't I consider this a fail, Soderberg at 15ish is probably a safe bet, Nieto at 15 is probably higher end for him 10-12 is more likely IMO, Compher should be able to get more than 13 I hope 20 isn't out of the question for him but I won't pencil that in until I see it, Ghetto is probably a 15-20ish type if he stays healthy.

Take a look at a good team like Winnipeg, they've got 5 guys that they can count on for 20+ goals, then another 2-3 in the 15+ range.

For us MacK, Rantanen, Landy are all good for 20+ , Jost/Compher/Kerfoot/Ghetto are question marks as to where they end up, and then Soderberg/Neito/Calvert all in the 10-15 range. We've got to get some more reliable 20+ guys to really start competing with the big boys.

 

[Spleenless Wonder21]

Is it bad that I see that name & this immediately runs through my head?

 

[agentblack]

I thought I read somewhere fans are petitioning him to wear no 5 which he refuses to of course

 

[Patagonia]

My point was that the Avs had to trade away star players in O'Reilly and Duchene to get some depth players. That is not sustainable in the long term. Only 4/12 of the Avs current forwards were drafted by the team and they were all early 1st round picks. I wouldn't call that good scouting and development.

The players wanted to leave and this created a difficult environment for any GM when it's openly known a trade is to happen. ROR wanted to be the highest paid, but was considered the 4th best player. Duchene after nearly 10 years was tired of rebuilding, wanted to play for a competitive team.

Consider the following return:

----------------------------------------------------------------O'Reilly + McGinn Trade
Zadorov
Grigorenko - Released
Compher
Greer (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 2nd-2015)
Morrison (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 2nd-2016)
Smirnov (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 6th-2017)
----------------------------------------------------------------Duchene Trade
OTT 1st-round pick (2019)
OTT 3rd-round pick (2019)
Bowers
Hammond - Released
Girard
Kamenev
Annunen (NSH 2nd-2018 for PIT 2nd-2018)
Zhuravlyov (NSH 2nd-2018 for PIT 5th-2018)

AVs gained 14 assets (2 released) by trading 3 players. The return is so massive, you can ice 2 solid lineups.
Sakic reshaped the team with younger, faster and more talented players. Salaries were cut to add and resign existing players. Barrie indirectly benefited in trading ROR avoided being a Cap casualty.

I simply disagree in your belief the return are depth players.

 

[CB Joe]

The players wanted to leave and this created a difficult environment for any GM when it's openly known a trade is to happen. ROR wanted to be the highest paid, but was considered the 4th best player. Duchene after nearly 10 years was tired of rebuilding, wanted to play for a competitive team.

Consider the following return:

----------------------------------------------------------------O'Reilly + McGinn Trade
Zadorov
Grigorenko - Released
Compher
Greer (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 2nd-2015)
Morrison (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 2nd-2016)
Smirnov (BUF 2nd-2015 for SJ 6th-2017)
----------------------------------------------------------------Duchene Trade
OTT 1st-round pick (2019)
OTT 3rd-round pick (2019)
Bowers
Hammond - Released
Girard
Kamenev
Annunen (NSH 2nd-2018 for PIT 2nd-2018)
Zhuravlyov (NSH 2nd-2018 for PIT 5th-2018)

AVs gained 14 assets (2 released) by trading 3 players. The return is so massive, you can ice 2 solid lineups.
Sakic reshaped the team with younger, faster and more talented players. Salaries were cut to add and resign existing players. Barrie indirectly benefited in trading ROR avoided being a Cap casualty.

I simply disagree in your belief the return are depth players.

The only established star players in your entire list are Duchene and O'Reilly. So yea they are all depth players so far.

 

[chet1926]

Damn I forgot about Perron.

I'm trying to think of scenarios where we'd make the playoffs and assuming that the 1st line and the Soda line can't do better than last year, the only thing that could push us in the playoffs is a 2nd line on par with the rest of the league. We are currently two top 6 forwards away from that.

Yeah it's going to be tough to make the playoffs in the West.

For me the Central looks like:
1. Winnipeg
2. Nashville
3. St Louis
but honestly those 3 could be in any order as they all have very solid teams
4. Minnesota (finished higher than us last year, didn't get worse)
5. Avalanche
6. Dallas
I think these 3 teams are fairly close so we could easily be 4th and just as easily be 6th
7. Chicago (all those championship runs are taking a toll and the team is on the decline)

Pacific:
1. San Jose
2. Vegas
3. LA
4. Edmonton
5. Anaheim
6. Arizona (could surprise a lot of people, finished strong last year)
7. Calgary
8. Vancouver

So realistically we will be competing with Dallas, Minnesota, Edmonton, Anaheim, and Arizona for 2 playoff spots. All 5 of those teams are solid, it's not going to easy. IMO there are easily 11-12 teams fighting for 8 spots. For me only Vancouver, Calgary and Chicago seem to be on the outside.

 

[Balthazar]

Yeah it's going to be tough to make the playoffs in the West.

For me the Central looks like:
1. Winnipeg
2. Nashville
3. St Louis
but honestly those 3 could be in any order as they all have very solid teams
4. Minnesota (finished higher than us last year, didn't get worse)
5. Avalanche
6. Dallas
I think these 3 teams are fairly close so we could easily be 4th and just as easily be 6th
7. Chicago (all those championship runs are taking a toll and the team is on the decline)

Pacific:
1. San Jose
2. Vegas
3. LA
4. Edmonton
5. Anaheim
6. Arizona (could surprise a lot of people, finished strong last year)
7. Calgary
8. Vancouver

So realistically we will be competing with Dallas, Minnesota, Edmonton, Anaheim, and Arizona for 2 playoff spots. All 5 of those teams are solid, it's not going to easy. IMO there are easily 11-12 teams fighting for 8 spots. For me only Vancouver, Calgary and Chicago seem to be on the outside.

People need to stop underrating Dallas. The fact that they didn't make the playoffs like year was an anomaly. They have a damn good team and I've them 3rd in the central after Winnipeg and Nashville.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

If I had to predict right now...

Winnipeg
Nashville
St. Louis
Dallas
Colorado
Minnesota
Chicago

San Jose
Los Angeles
Vegas
Edmonton
Calgary
Anaheim
Arizona
Vancouver

 

[the_fan]

1. Being content with regression, is simply loser talk in my opinion. The goal of professional sports is to win not continually collect high draft picks. No one in here is talking about selling off the future to try and win a championship. I'm more so frustrated that we did absolutely nothing to address our weak points this offseason to try and remain a team that can fight for a playoff spot. It's like Sakic knew he had a weakness on the second line, but sat on his hands and couldn't get anything done to help it in the slightest. And now he is relying on the hope that certain young players continue to progress, and IMO that is just hope which may work it may not.

2. It sure seems like many posters in here are pretty damn sure we are going to be drafting a top tier player come next draft with Ottawa's pick. I wouldn't count on something like that happen. If it does great, but we shouldn't be counting on it.

3. Good UFAs don't want to come to teams that consistently lose. Sure we can get the Calvert/Cole's of the world to come, that's no big deal and they don't improve your team much if any. Name the last big name UFA to sign with the Avs. Don't say Iginla, because that was a guy well past his prime that not a ton of teams were interested in. It doesn't matter how much young talent you have, if you haven't proven that you can win on a consistent basis the likelihood of quality UFAs, that actually have an decent impact on the team, coming here is not particularly high as proven by Tavares not even giving us the time of day even though we clearly had interest.

4. There has never been a championship team that was solely built around the draft. But I will say that your statement is accurate as well. There does have to be a nice mixture of both drafting/developing, trading and UFA to build a contending team. We've been a poor team for over a decade now. Something has got to change. We can't continue in mediocrity, we finally have some good pieces in place but if we fail to address weak points via other methods we will continue to be a poor team with very little success. We don't have any prospects/players outside of Jost right now that have 2nd line potential, and who knows if he actually ever hits that potential. That is a problem that has to be addressed externally. We can't succeed as a 1 line team.

Teams don't really need big name UFA's to win the cup now days, it's all done with drafting and trades mostly. Pens, Caps, Hawks, did they acquire any big name free agents? In fact those who did, like Wild getting Suter and Parise haven't won shit.

Edit: and it's still a big question whether or not the Leafs will ever win the cup with Tavares.

 

[Congo Jack]

I wonder if/when that Craig Anderson trade will happen, we all know how he gets when he wants off a team.

 

[agentblack]

I wonder if/when that Craig Anderson trade will happen, we all know how he gets when he wants off a team.

Have a feeling this'll be a hockey trade , teams looking to swap a G

 

[Patagonia]

People need to stop underrating Dallas. The fact that they didn't make the playoffs like year was an anomaly. They have a damn good team and I've them 3rd in the central after Winnipeg and Nashville.

Dallas is a Dark Horse team...they have explosive offense, but terrible defense and sometimes suspect Goalie. They could explode and score a large number of goals and struggle for weeks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they finish ahead of the AVs, they're a difficult team to predict, but they should not be underestimated.

 

[Raucherhusten]

Teams don't really need big name UFA's to win the cup now days, it's all done with drafting and trades mostly. Pens, Caps, Hawks, did they acquire any big name free agents? In fact those who did, like Wild getting Suter and Parise haven't won ****.

Edit: and it's still a big question whether or not the Leafs will ever win the cup with Tavares.

Oshie for the caps, Hossa for the Hawks and a little nugget named Phil Kessel for Pittsburgh. Every team needs some outside help. Some might need more others less. To think otherwise is just stupid. You usually have a couple of keyplayers and then start to build around them. I mean look at the Predators - half of their offence comes from outside, either by trades or FA signings.

The Avs are at that point now where just drafting and developing isn't enough to make that next step. We still have some time to do so but we surely need to start pretty soon.

 

[Balthazar]

Dallas is a Dark Horse team...they have explosive offense, but terrible defense and sometimes suspect Goalie. They could explode and score a large number of goals and struggle for weeks.

I wouldn't be surprised if they finish ahead of the AVs, they're a difficult team to predict, but they should not be underestimated.

Methot was injured all year and they get Heiskanen who's supposedly the best dman that wasn't playing in the NHL. Their defense will be fine. Also never underestimate a coaching change...they got stuck with 2 dinosaurs for many years (Ruff and then Hitchcock)...now they get a younger more dynamic guy who understands the new NHL better.