Speculation: Avs interested in William Karlsson

Meeqs

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Aug 23, 2012
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But Miller isn't a bad cap dump. Sure I criticize him plenty but he's more than serviceable as a number 4 two way defender. He's not perfect but he's not a pure cap dump. He's not going to be a bench rider. Regardless of where he goes. You add Tuch to Miller and you're getting a top 6 winger with high upside and a very usable if flawed second pair defenseman who does well as a second PP unit QB. That's a lot. I know Barrie isn't chump change himself but what Vegas is looking at is a guy who is basically Miller that's better where Miller is weak. It's a good upgrade but they also have Shea Theodore, Nate Schmidt, and Nic Hague so players of Barrie's type aren't a huge need. Then we get another draft pick which is good. But the total package Vegas is getting makes them immediately worse. With no definite prospect of pick 16 making them any better or evening out. I'm not saying the original proposal was fair, but adding Tuch to it with nothing else back from Colorado is overkill.

As for Glass, don't get me wrong. I think he could play in the NHL today. I just don't think he should just yet. He's had his stint slamming the WHL with his talent but he's on more even footing in the AHL right now. I'd rather he take the time to refine his talents and adapt to the size and speed of that league before jumping into the NHL. The kid is a fantastic passing talent and has as high a hockey IQ as any prospect I've seen. He just hasn't translated those talents into something I'd consider truly poised for NHL stardom just yet. Plus even though he's added a little size to his frame he's still pretty lanky and I'd like him to build up some more too. He's a guy that will go into dirty areas to forecheck and work behind the net and along the boards but he needs more size if he's gonna do it properly in the NHL. Of course that's all just my opinion. We'll see what Gallant thinks this September.

Quick thoughts on the bad trade:
-Agree that Barrie isn't really a need
-You're massively underrating Barrie as a player though
- Anything more just highlights why the trade was so bad, Barrie wouldn't be worth what he would cost for VGK

On Glass:
We see guys coming in younger and younger and I don't see too much more reason to keep him in the AHL where he is already slaying it and is slightly under a PPG. From the games I have watched and his numbers he is ready and I think he would develop better in the NHL at this point anyways. I will be pretty darned shocked if he isn't in the NHL next year and I think 10 games in everyone will be shocked he wasn't called up sooner.

My question is, lets say WK stays: what is the max AAV you think he is worth and who does VGK ship out to pay him?
Lets say he is going to be moved: What return are you looking for?
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
97,393
32,116
Las Vegas
Quick thoughts on the bad trade:
-Agree that Barrie isn't really a need
-You're massively underrating Barrie as a player though
- Anything more just highlights why the trade was so bad, Barrie wouldn't be worth what he would cost for VGK

On Glass:
We see guys coming in younger and younger and I don't see too much more reason to keep him in the AHL where he is already slaying it and is slightly under a PPG. From the games I have watched and his numbers he is ready and I think he would develop better in the NHL at this point anyways. I will be pretty darned shocked if he isn't in the NHL next year and I think 10 games in everyone will be shocked he wasn't called up sooner.

My question is, lets say WK stays: what is the max AAV you think he is worth and who does VGK ship out to pay him?
Lets say he is going to be moved: What return are you looking for?
I'm not. I figured I didn't explain myself well. Miller plays a similar style to Barrie but Barrie is better in all regards, especially in his own zone and at making puck decisions and holding the puck at the point. What I'm saying is when you consider that Miller may not do what Barrie does anywhere near as effectively, he still fits that role adequately albeit from a lower pairing position. His numbers this year dipped more from an overall dip in Vegas' offensive production. Had Vegas not ended up in a cap bind, they would've been more than fine with keeping Miller on while continuing to foster guys like Hague, Whitecloud, and Bischoff. If Miller is traded it won't be a cap dump, but a cap casualty, and in my mind that's not a semantical difference. Colin has value. The real problem is the contract they gave to Nick Holden. 2.2 million may not be a lot but the guy is bad. He's worth at most 1 million less as a healthy scratch option as he is a liability defensively and his only offensive benefit is deftly skating past forecheckers to fling useless wristshots at goalie crests. And because he's barely usable he isn't really a cap relief trade option. Miller at least has some value.

But none of this is to say Barrie isn't a great asset. It's just when taking together the fact that Vegas already has Theodore, Schmidt, Hague in the minors (Schuldt could also go on to be a strong commodity), and Miller as a deep discount Barrie himself, any trade with Miller going one way and Barrie coming back the other is like putting a nicer hat on a hat with a lottery ticket attached when the guy giving the hat is getting a pair of designer jeans back. Barrie may be the most valuable piece in this hypothetical trade but not every trade can be looked at based on pure equity. It also has to make sense for both sides. Moving three core pieces for one piece that doesn't fill a need and is quite like other pieces Vegas already has is just not a smart move. And this all not to mention the fact that Barrie only has one year left on his contract so he is, in effect, a one year rental. What's stopping Barrie from asking too much from Vegas and leaving the Knights with nothing more than a prayer that pick 16 will be a star? As I've said. If Vegas adds Tuch to that Barrie nonsense, Colorado needs an add as well. Couldn't say what at the moment but given Barrie's impending UFA status and that he's not a need, that's 3 core pieces out the door for only one year's worth of a guarantee and that's simply not worth it to Vegas at all.

On Glass: I mean I certainly hope you're right but I'm not entirely convinced there's nothing to gain from AHL development. Chicago is clearly doing a stellar job handling its players. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Glass come up as an injury call up, but I'm not expecting him to make the team out of camp. Barring any changes to his game come training camp. Don't get me wrong, if Glass came in today, presuming Vegas even had games to play he'd be one of if not the best passer on the team. But I'd like to see him fine tune his playmaking and high hockey IQ against a lower demand level of competition before throwing him into the fire.

On Wild Bill: I'm not sure how much he'll fetch. It would seem given his numbers he's played his way out of a substantial raise. 6 million is probably the most fitting ballpark figure. With Clarkson's 5.25 million coming off the books that frees up a little more space. I don't think it's absurd to think that Rielly Smith might be moved. That's another 5. They're also unlikely to re-sign Deryk Engelland. Maybe for 1m. I'm not really sure how this will all play out. I trust McCrimmon.
 
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Ivan13

Not posting anymore
May 3, 2011
26,141
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Zagreb, Croatia
But Miller isn't a bad cap dump. Sure I criticize him plenty but he's more than serviceable as a number 4 two way defender. He's not perfect but he's not a pure cap dump. He's not going to be a bench rider. Regardless of where he goes. You add Tuch to Miller and you're getting a top 6 winger with high upside and a very usable if flawed second pair defenseman who does well as a second PP unit QB. That's a lot. I know Barrie isn't chump change himself but what Vegas is looking at is a guy who is basically Miller that's better where Miller is weak. It's a good upgrade but they also have Shea Theodore, Nate Schmidt, and Nic Hague so players of Barrie's type aren't a huge need. Then we get another draft pick which is good. But the total package Vegas is getting makes them immediately worse. With no definite prospect of pick 16 making them any better or evening out. I'm not saying the original proposal was fair, but adding Tuch to it with nothing else back from Colorado is overkill.

As for Glass, don't get me wrong. I think he could play in the NHL today. I just don't think he should just yet. He's had his stint slamming the WHL with his talent but he's on more even footing in the AHL right now. I'd rather he take the time to refine his talents and adapt to the size and speed of that league before jumping into the NHL. The kid is a fantastic passing talent and has as high a hockey IQ as any prospect I've seen. He just hasn't translated those talents into something I'd consider truly poised for NHL stardom just yet. Plus even though he's added a little size to his frame he's still pretty lanky and I'd like him to build up some more too. He's a guy that will go into dirty areas to forecheck and work behind the net and along the boards but he needs more size if he's gonna do it properly in the NHL. Of course that's all just my opinion. We'll see what Gallant thinks this September.

Are you kidding me? Tyson Barrie is one of the best offensive defensemen there is and a sure-fire first pairing D, who excels driving the play at ES and on the PP.
 
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Mac Attack

Beefy Legs
Aug 15, 2018
1,179
730
Avs don't have their own 3rd so OS wouldn't be an option. I also don't know what WK wants for a contract but I would have to think if they could get him for 6.3 long term VGK would just find a way to keep him. Freeing up a mil or so in cap space should be very doable.

I'm not saying its a done deal on either side, just that I feel it is at least a reasonable basis for discussion.
They gave away next year's 3rd so they still have this year's
 

AslanRH

Not a Core Poster
Sponsor
Jun 5, 2012
15,246
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Wyoming, USA
The Avs reacquiring their 2020 3rd wouldn't be an issue if it comes to that, which it could depending on if Sakic decides he wants to be positioned to be aggressive with all the potential RFAs out there.
The Avs have 2 3rds in the 2019 draft that both will likely be higher slotted than the 3rd in 2020
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
97,393
32,116
Las Vegas
Are you kidding me? Tyson Barrie is one of the best offensive defensemen there is and a sure-fire first pairing D, who excels driving the play at ES and on the PP.

Who is a one year rental, will cost more to re-sign than Vegas can afford, and plays a role on defense that Vegas is well settled with even if they're not as good.
 

Ivan13

Not posting anymore
May 3, 2011
26,141
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Zagreb, Croatia
Who is a one year rental, will cost more to re-sign than Vegas can afford, and plays a role on defense that Vegas is well settled with even if they're not as good.
That's a whole different argument, and one you did not make in your ealier post.
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
Jul 1, 2012
26,283
18,255
Alphaville
Very lightly used. Barely one full season of work over two years!

Yes, it will help the Avs in re-signing him. If he played the full season he might be leaning towards free agency or a 5m long term deal. This way, you can extend him for around 4m.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
31,011
16,540
Toruń, PL
Wild Bill is a fan favourite in Vegas. I mean I can see them move on from him, but he will be one of the last avenues they will test with after all the other roads have been exhausted.
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
Jul 1, 2012
26,283
18,255
Alphaville
Wild Bill is a fan favourite in Vegas. I mean I can see them move on from him, but he will be one of the last avenues they will test with after all the other roads have been exhausted.

McPhee said he prefers players filing for arbitration so that's probably what will happen, and when enough space gets cleared, he can get signed to 6-6.5m long term (or less)
 

Meeqs

Registered User
Aug 23, 2012
9,295
1,677
USA
I'm not. I figured I didn't explain myself well. Miller plays a similar style to Barrie but Barrie is better in all regards, especially in his own zone and at making puck decisions and holding the puck at the point. What I'm saying is when you consider that Miller may not do what Barrie does anywhere near as effectively, he still fits that role adequately albeit from a lower pairing position. His numbers this year dipped more from an overall dip in Vegas' offensive production. Had Vegas not ended up in a cap bind, they would've been more than fine with keeping Miller on while continuing to foster guys like Hague, Whitecloud, and Bischoff. If Miller is traded it won't be a cap dump, but a cap casualty, and in my mind that's not a semantical difference. Colin has value. The real problem is the contract they gave to Nick Holden. 2.2 million may not be a lot but the guy is bad. He's worth at most 1 million less as a healthy scratch option as he is a liability defensively and his only offensive benefit is deftly skating past forecheckers to fling useless wristshots at goalie crests. And because he's barely usable he isn't really a cap relief trade option. Miller at least has some value.

But none of this is to say Barrie isn't a great asset. It's just when taking together the fact that Vegas already has Theodore, Schmidt, Hague in the minors (Schuldt could also go on to be a strong commodity), and Miller as a deep discount Barrie himself, any trade with Miller going one way and Barrie coming back the other is like putting a nicer hat on a hat with a lottery ticket attached when the guy giving the hat is getting a pair of designer jeans back. Barrie may be the most valuable piece in this hypothetical trade but not every trade can be looked at based on pure equity. It also has to make sense for both sides. Moving three core pieces for one piece that doesn't fill a need and is quite like other pieces Vegas already has is just not a smart move. And this all not to mention the fact that Barrie only has one year left on his contract so he is, in effect, a one year rental. What's stopping Barrie from asking too much from Vegas and leaving the Knights with nothing more than a prayer that pick 16 will be a star? As I've said. If Vegas adds Tuch to that Barrie nonsense, Colorado needs an add as well. Couldn't say what at the moment but given Barrie's impending UFA status and that he's not a need, that's 3 core pieces out the door for only one year's worth of a guarantee and that's simply not worth it to Vegas at all.

On Glass: I mean I certainly hope you're right but I'm not entirely convinced there's nothing to gain from AHL development. Chicago is clearly doing a stellar job handling its players. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Glass come up as an injury call up, but I'm not expecting him to make the team out of camp. Barring any changes to his game come training camp. Don't get me wrong, if Glass came in today, presuming Vegas even had games to play he'd be one of if not the best passer on the team. But I'd like to see him fine tune his playmaking and high hockey IQ against a lower demand level of competition before throwing him into the fire.

On Wild Bill: I'm not sure how much he'll fetch. It would seem given his numbers he's played his way out of a substantial raise. 6 million is probably the most fitting ballpark figure. With Clarkson's 5.25 million coming off the books that frees up a little more space. I don't think it's absurd to think that Rielly Smith might be moved. That's another 5. They're also unlikely to re-sign Deryk Engelland. Maybe for 1m. I'm not really sure how this will all play out. I trust McCrimmon.

Hey I wasn't able to continue this last night but I just wanted to say thanks for the great conversation. It was fun and it'll be exciting to see me be right about Glass haha.
 

Meeqs

Registered User
Aug 23, 2012
9,295
1,677
USA
They gave away next year's 3rd so they still have this year's

Next years 3rd is the one that would be used in an offer sheet, they would need to get it back from FLA to make any kind of OS in that range
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
97,393
32,116
Las Vegas
That's a whole different argument, and one you did not make in your ealier post.
Read more carefully. My point that Vegas has players like Barrie in terms of role including Miller himself was not meant to suggest that Barrie is not a premier talent but that Vegas, as a team that needs more defensive specialists to counterbalance their wealth of offensive minded defensemen, would be getting an upgrade with Barrie for sure. But not one that is worth sacrificing the potential of Tuch over, and especially not if Barrie only has one year left on his contract. Tuch is a top 6 talent signed at a fair price for significant term. They're not burning that on a rental they don't really need. That was never to say Vegas can't benefit from Barrie's services.
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
97,393
32,116
Las Vegas
Hey I wasn't able to continue this last night but I just wanted to say thanks for the great conversation. It was fun and it'll be exciting to see me be right about Glass haha.
I mean that's some crow I'd eat with two hands and no plate.
 
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