Confirmed with Link: Avs acquire Brad Stuart

[AvsGuy]

Garrison cost a 2nd. A 2nd and McBain got you Sekera a year ago.

A 2nd could easily turn into nothing. But they hold some real value. And you can get a hell of a lot better back for them than Reto Berra and Brad Stuart.

This is my early feelings on the issue. Brad Stuart? Gughhh.. Just because he makes our D slightly better does not mean he is still good whatsoever. I'd have much preferred Gorges. ****.

 

[Bender]

This is my early feelings on the issue. Brad Stuart? Gughhh.. Just because he makes our D slightly better does not mean he is still good whatsoever. I'd have much preferred Gorges. ****.

Maybe next year, maybe even the year after that. But two years from now, with ANOTHER TWO YEARS at $3.9M, that contract will be very difficult to move. Gorges is a good player but taking on 4 years of term is the real issue with him.

We should get a good year out of Brad Stuart since he's 34 and on the last year of his deal.

 

[henchman21]

There is a large difference between an early 2nd round pick and a late 2nd round pick. Usually teams have players with 1st round grades in the early 2nd, but by the time they get to the late 2nd those players are usually gone. The Avs have done very well drafting in the early 2nd, but when they get past ~40 their record is not so good. Gaunce, Delmas, Elliott, Pickard, and Heard were all 2nd round picks after #40 since 2008. Not exactly a bunch of world beaters.

Now people argue value frequently on 2nd round picks, well out off all the draft picks, 2nds are probably the most dealt right now and their value differs wildly between expected positioning and teams get far different returns. Murray cost 2 2nd round picks (Pittsburgh so late 2nd round), whiile Sekera cost an early 2nd round and McBain (also probably worth a 2nd round pick at the time). Peter Holland cost a conditional 2nd round pick. Setoguchi cost a 2nd round pick. Rundblad (who is very close to being a bust) cost a 2nd. Regehr cost 2 2nd round picks. MacDonald cost a 2nd and a 3rd. Andrei Kostitsyn cost a 2nd and a 5th. A number of those would be considered 'bad' trades.

Now it probably was a bit of an overpayment, but the amount of that overpayment is not that large. Make it a conditional 3rd (say 3rd if under 50 games, 2nd if over), and it would be much closer to 'correct' value. Without a doubt I would much rather overpay by 1 round to avoid the hot mess that was UFA defensemen this year. There were some seriously ugly contracts for players that are not any good. Right now the Avs have a stop gap for a year and can walk away if this doesn't work.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Even Buffalo were hesitant to give up their 2015 2nd. They gave up their 2016 2nd for Gorges and just hope they won't suck as bad in two years' time. McDavid and whatnot.

 

[Flanagan]

I just want to point out that with the acquisition of Stuart, the Avs now have five top-3 draft picks on the roster.

1st: Johnson, MacKinnon
2nd: Landeskog
3rd: Duchene, Stuart

 

[Alex Jones]

Stuart sucks, I hate this move. Sharks fans have been openly discussing buying this guy out for months. He sucks.

 

[jfc64]

Out of Sakic and Roy, who is Jonah Hill and who is Brad Pitt?

 

[Taak19]

.....this ain't moneyball.

 

[cgf]

I don't wannahate, but I think a left handed Sarich is the best case scenario with Stuart and what's likely is much worse. Dude's O'byrne bad with the puck.

 

[AslanRH]

.....this ain't moneyball.

No but it is money puck

Assuming ROR and Barrie come in at 9m total.

In off-season 2015, the Avs will have 19 players signed with 15m + whatever the cap goes up.

Bigras, Siemens, Bleakley, Hishon, and Elliott are all currently potential candidates to fill the 4 empty spots and all will cost less than 2m each.

That will leave the Avs with around 8m+cap increase and a full roster. likely bottom 15 in payroll again

Can they upgrade players by taking on more cap? --- Sure.
Can they budget some for EJ, MacK, and likely a Barrie extension? ----- They had better.

But this front office has shown poor trade practices and have yet to show they will make trades that take on salary as opposed to freeing it up.

 

[UncleRisto]

But this front office has shown poor trade practices and have yet to show they will make trades that take on salary as opposed to freeing it up.

Ya that trade where we got rid of Jones and O'Brien was horrid. Just getting rid of salary. Ugh.

Talbot trade was great too now that you look at it. Just wanted to mention that so I could point out that Talbot has been an exemplary veteran presence. Seems like a great guy.

 

[AslanRH]

Ya that trade where we got rid of Jones and O'Brien was horrid. Just getting rid of salary. Ugh.

I never said all their moves were bad. Their signings of guys like Holden are good moves. But thanks for the witty retort.

Talbot trade was great too now that you look at it. Just wanted to mention that so I could point out that Talbot has been an exemplary veteran presence. Seems like a great guy.

That Talbot trade was good in hindsight, but there were very few among us and within the "experts" that thought they got good value for Downie. I agree with the Calgary trade looking good, but Sarich-SOB was primarily a wash in contribution level but did cut salary. Tangs-Jones was definitely a win.

so I'll concede 2 good trades as the "value" in the Calgary trade trumps the loss of the "value" in the Talbot trade.

3 Trades/ 3 Moves TBD:

Stuart for a 2nd + 6th
PaP + 5th for Briere
2nd for Berra
Stastny for Iginla
ROR?
Barrie?

I'd wager 2 of the 3 trades will end up looking like losses. 3 if you think they could have just waited and signed Berra as a UFA.

The Stastny - Iginla exchange will likely be debated for all time and likely will not ever be agreed upon if they both perform at their expected levels.

If ROR is not re-upped long term, and leaves, I'd bet that goes down with everyone as a loss.

Barrie has not been re-signed yet. TBD

There is a good chance they will be lucky to end up at 50% positive in their moves so far, and that is not something that gives me much confidence.

 

[Avs_19]

A few days later, still not a fan of this move. One way to win all of us over is if he lays Cooke out on opening night. I'd become a huge fan right away.

 

[OMackDuch]

I think the good thing about this move is that we have a guy who can HIT like wilson. He is better than wilson and I think he'll not play a lot this year.

he had 122 hits this year. it's good.

ps: holden had 118 hits in 54 matchs :O. He hit more than I thougt. At this pace he would have 179 hits for the most in the team .....

 

[shadow1]

He's clearly a gap stop. I know people don't like the trade price (versus maybe even keeping Andre Benoit), but the Avalanche obviously went after other defensemen and it didn't work.

Sakic for sure mentioned Brooks Orpik and Anton Stralman, and TSN said we were after Matt Niskanen. Avalanche management knows there's work to be done.

That being said - and call me a homer - but I will take the chance that Brad Stuart blocks a shot or makes a big hit in the playoffs that saves a game or swings momentum versus what the likely alternatives were.

Whereas Sakic even admitted the Parenteau-Briere deal was due to contract term, to me this deal is their way of saying a lower end guy like Nate Guenin won't be making an extended appearance in the playoffs again.

 

[cgf]

He's clearly a gap stop. I know people don't like the trade price (versus maybe even keeping Andre Benoit), but the Avalanche obviously went after other defensemen and it didn't work.

Sakic for sure mentioned Brooks Orpik and Anton Stralman, and TSN said we were after Matt Niskanen. Avalanche management knows there's work to be done.

That being said - and call me a homer - but I will take the chance that Brad Stuart blocks a shot or makes a big hit in the playoffs that saves a game or swings momentum versus what the likely alternatives were.

Whereas Sakic even admitted the Parenteau-Briere deal was due to contract term, to me this deal is their way of saying a lower end guy like Nate Guenin won't be making an extended appearance in the playoffs again.

Wouldn't stuart have to be better than Guenin for it to matter?

 

[Pokecheque]

The thing I find a tad alarming is that he played a depth role on a very deep and talented team, and still stunk. I'm hoping the change of scenery does him some good, but best case scenario to me is that he serves as a stopgap for a VERY short time period until someone on the farm is ready...maybe Elliott or Siemens, I don't know.

 

[AslanRH]

a 2nd and 6th and 3.6m shouldn't be just a stop gap.

McBain
DelZotto
Butler
Tallinder
etc
etc

Those are stop gaps that are cheaper both in assets and in salary and just as likely to stick as long as Stuart. But Stuart has a cup and played pretty well a few years ago.

 

[UncleRisto]

I never said all their moves were bad. Their signings of guys like Holden are good moves. But thanks for the witty retort.

No problem, just doing what I do best.

a 2nd and 6th and 3.6m shouldn't be just a stop gap.

McBain
DelZotto
Butler
Tallinder
etc
etc

Those are stop gaps that are cheaper both in assets and in salary and just as likely to stick as long as Stuart. But Stuart has a cup and played pretty well a few years ago.

Those guys are all awful. There's been fears of Stuart being just as useless but if that turns out to be the case then yeah they definitely wasted a 2nd round pick big time.



They have a tendency to overpay a little but these "Ugh you could've gotten Sekera with that pick a year ago" comments that some of us are making are completely useless to make right now.

 

[AslanRH]

No problem, just doing what I do best.



Those guys are all awful. There's been fears of Stuart being just as useless but if that turns out to be the case then yeah they definitely wasted a 2nd round pick big time.



They have a tendency to overpay a little but these "Ugh you could've gotten Sekera with that pick a year ago" comments that some of us are making are completely useless to make right now.

Agree, saying that they were even given the chance at Sekera is speculation and impossible to know. Going back to trades between other teams is moot as we do not know if there was anything the other teams were wanting from the Avs.

Clearly they see value in
Briere + Stuart for PAP + 2nd + 5th + 6th.

I just don't see it. I get experience, leadership and those undefined intangibles have value, but that is a steep price for 1 year of mentoring.

If that trade (as a package) would have been proposed to this board, I imagine the response would have been a lot different than saying it is an overpay "by a little bit".

 

[Avs71]

What I find surprising about Stuart, for how slow he apparently is, he only took 1 tripping, 2 hooking, and 3 holding penalties all season long. EJ, for example, took 9 holding penalties.

Or maybe he is so slow that he cannot even get a grab on the player.

I wouldn't write this off as a bad move until we see him play under Roy. Hejda was a -17 his first season in Colorado, as well as a healthy scratch, and just a horrible player some nights. Then Roy told him how he wants him to defend differently, and suddenly Hejda is a serviceable player on the top pairing, at 35 years old nonetheless.

The Avs may be able to find the youth fountain once again, and have a serviceable top 4 player for the majority of the season.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

The thing I find a tad alarming is that he played a depth role on a very deep and talented team, and still stunk. I'm hoping the change of scenery does him some good, but best case scenario to me is that he serves as a stopgap for a VERY short time period until someone on the farm is ready...maybe Elliott or Siemens, I don't know.

He played 2nd pair minutes at even strength (17:01) and on the PK (2:01). He was 5th amongst Dmen for total ice time (19:09). Out of guys on our team, Only EJ and Hedja put in more even strength time. Only those 2 plus Holden had more total ice time.

 

[AslanRH]

Still can't understand not just buying out PAP (CBO qualified) or retaining a bit of salary rather than sacrificing a pick and adding a 4m player that could have had the same place in the lineup filled with a much cheaper option.

Stuart move is just another move where I hope they see something I don't.

I really want to be wrong on both trades, but adding 7.6m in salary for 2 likely 1 year place holders that likely could have been found at less salary in FA not cost any picks just seems like the opposite of valuing draft picks that will help with the FO's supposed plan of "building the team through the draft".

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Still can't understand not just buying out PAP (CBO qualified) or retaining a bit of salary rather than sacrificing a pick and adding a 4m player that could have had the same place in the lineup filled with a much cheaper option.

Stuart move is just another move where I hope they see something I don't.

I really want to be wrong on both trades, but adding 7.6m in salary for 2 likely 1 year place holders that likely could have been found at less salary in FA not cost any picks just seems like the opposite of valuing draft picks that will help with the FO's supposed plan of "building the team through the draft".

I think their main goal was to add veteran presence. Guys that have been deep in the playoffs and can help guide our younger players.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

a 2nd and 6th and 3.6m shouldn't be just a stop gap.

McBain
DelZotto
Butler
Tallinder
etc
etc

Those are stop gaps that are cheaper both in assets and in salary and just as likely to stick as long as Stuart. But Stuart has a cup and played pretty well a few years ago.

The point is to get a stop gap that fits what you need and will make your team better. Del Zotto would make this team worse. You don't bring in a guy who sucks at D when your D is weak. Same for McBain. We don't need another #5 PP fill in. What makes Butler better than Stuart? Neither are offensive guys. And 5 on 5 Stuart actually was playing in a highr role (2nd line vs 3rd line) on a much better team. Stuart is also big and physical, unlike Butler. Tallinder doesn't hit either, is even older and was another guy on a crappy team.