GDT: Aves @ Hawkes | 6:30pm MT | All I want for Christmas is Cale and a 2C

[CobraAcesS]

Byram would try to toe drag all 4 PKers, go to take a huge slapper, get poke checked, and give up a breakaway that George promptly stops and slashes Bo in the face.

Fk it, try everything


It's more likely George doesn't make the stop though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Toews deserves his share of the blame too. He’s been good, but we’ve been accustomed to him being great. When Makar goes down, you need one of these guys to step up, and no one has. I’d be trying Byram on PP1 next game to try something new. Get Bo’s confidence going.

Byram would try to toe drag all 4 PKers, go to take a huge slapper, get poke checked, and give up a breakaway that George promptly stops and slashes Bo in the face.

Case in point. Fair and legitimate criticism of Toews, re-directed back to Byram with over the top hyperbole.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Speaking of breakaways, George's stop on Bedard's breakaway was epic.

 

[dahrougem2]

Speaking of breakaways, George's stop on Bedard's breakaway was epic.

Wish he would stop other chances the way he stops breakaways

 

[henchman21]

Wish he would stop other chances the way he stops breakaways

By chance you mean a soft floater from 45’?

 

[Foppa2118]

I've been saying it since the beginning of the season that locker room needs a captain. Teams without captains FAIL.

They desperately need Landy or EJ to settle the team down in the kind of situations they've had this year. They bring the team together and get them focused on the positives in situations like this.

That's their brand of leadership. Not hanging their heads and pointing fingers at others, instead of themselves when they're making mistakes. That's a recipe for a fractured dressing room.

Putting the C on Cale or Nate wouldn't change anything though unfortunately. They'd approach their leadership role the same, with or without a letter, and guys already respect and listen to them.

They didn't have Landy last year either, but they didn't have these kind of problems, and they had a worse team on paper, with more injuries. Understandable that they moved on from EJ, but I think they underestimated what a glue guy he was for the team.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Not sure if this player has been speculated yet, but I could easily see it being directed at Georgiev, too. He's already had a public outburst at one of his defensemen, so if there's similar stuff going on behind the scenes it's not hard to see Toews taking it personally.

I think you are on to something here. Georgiev probably thinks he's playing great and it's his team mates fault that goals are being scored.

And sometime's he's right.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think you are on to something here. Georgiev probably thinks he's playing great and it's his team mates fault that goals are being scored.

And sometime's he's right.

Might be the case in a lot of games this year with Georgie, but last night he was good. Wasn't at fault for the goals, and he made some big saves at key times, which he had been struggling with earlier.

Hopefully Toews wasn't referring to him, when he was the one that cost them two goals. That would be kind of ridiculous.

 

[SB]

Makar made the observation earlier this year that if they aren't all skating like they should, then people aren't where they should be when passes are made. This seems to align. It's like watching the NFL, when the qb appears to throw a terrible pass, but it's because the route runner effed up -- still, the qb gets the INT and the bad look.

That said, is it realistic to expect these guys to skate like crazy people for 82 games plus? Is there a Plan B?

 

[Foppa2118]

Makar made the observation earlier this year that if they aren't all skating like they should, then people aren't where they should be when passes are made. This seems to align. It's like watching the NFL, when the qb appears to throw a terrible pass, but it's because the route runner effed up -- still, the qb gets the INT and the bad look.

That said, is it realistic to expect these guys to skate like crazy people for 82 games plus? Is there a Plan B?

This has been their achilles heel every year under Bednar, because his system requires fast skating to pressure puck carriers, and hound loose pucks at all times.

When they don't skate like they need to, they don't get to the areas of the ice they need to, and since they don't hit much, and don't have an overly tough defense to play against, they can become fairly beatable.

Their plan B Bednar usually asks them to to play when they don't have it that night, is a simple, meat and potatoes games, but that's not really their identity, so I think it's hard to turn it off and on.

It's proven to be a great system, but I've always wondered the same, about what the threshold is for when they may reach a point of diminishing returns, over 82 games + playoffs multiple years in a row.

 

[Pokecheque]

What the hell is this? Now you're cherry picking screenshots just to fit your narrative. He just got the puck there and stepped away from the forechecker. A split second later, that passing lane was covered. Drouin's circling up ice not even looking for the pass.

Watch the video. Watch it in real time. Watch the reverse angle from behind the net. He had a split second where he could have and should have chipped it to open ice, but he didn't have an open passing lane.

You guys have fallen hook line and sinker for this anti Byram narrative, just because a couple people who never liked him to begin with, criticize him over and over trying to get others to think like them. So much so you're calling that play arrogant and saying nobody on the team likes him which is nonsense.

I'm sorry Poke, but just like with EJ, you and a few others just don't watch these plays before you criticize. Every GDT I'm in I have to correct people because they literally see things that never happened. Like passing options.

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I ain’t cherry picking shit. Play the video if you want I don’t care but you’re just being obstinate at this point. I simply picked a shot where he had clear possession and separation and there was plenty of time and space to do something with the puck.

And you’re not “correcting” anyone. You just refuse to see anyone’s perspective but your own. You’re in the vast, vast minority on this one. Whether looking at the metrics or just using the eye test we can all plainly see that Byram has been BAD. I don’t know why you can’t see it but you’re the one pushing this narrative and you’re the one nitpicking multiple screenshots.

 

[Pokecheque]

Toews deserves his share of the blame too. He’s been good, but we’ve been accustomed to him being great. When Makar goes down, you need one of these guys to step up, and no one has. I’d be trying Byram on PP1 next game to try something new. Get Bo’s confidence going.

Good heavens they JUST got their flagging power play back on track. The car is running again, they don’t need to set it on fire there, Jiffy Lube.

 

[Foppa2118]

I ain’t cherry picking shit. Play the video if you want I don’t care but you’re just being obstinate at this point. I simply picked a shot where he had clear possession and separation and there was plenty of time and space to do something with the puck.

And you’re not “correcting” anyone. You just refuse to see anyone’s perspective but your own. You’re in the vast, vast minority on this one. Whether looking at the metrics or just using the eye test we can all plainly see that Byram has been BAD. I don’t know why you can’t see it but you’re the one pushing this narrative and you’re the one nitpicking multiple screenshots.

Bullshit. And I'm not in the mood to deal with it today, as you can tell. I usually just ignore it, but not today.

And I usually have very polite disagreements, and acknowledge when others are right, and when I've been wrong, and you know it because I've had many conversations with you like that. Very disingenuous of you to say otherwise.

And you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said to make it seem like I'm not acknowledging Byram's mistake here. I've said multiple times that he should have chipped the puck to an open area.

You absolutely did cherry pick that screen shot. You picked one right after he got the puck, and his "passing option" (Drouin) had his back turned, and was circling up ice not even looking at the puck.

That's why you didn't even attempt to show me where the passing options you claimed he had in the screenshots I showed you. Where are they? Shoud be easy for you to answer since you're so sure you're right.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Wish he would stop other chances the way he stops breakaways

Im telling you meng he legit seems surprised when the puck hits him haha.

 

[Pokecheque]

You absolutely did cherry pick that screen shot. You picked one right after he got the puck, and his "passing option" (Drouin) had his back turned, and was circling up ice not even looking at the puck.

That's why you didn't even attempt to show me where the passing options you claimed he had in the screenshots I showed you. Where are they? Shoud be easy for you to answer since you're so sure you're right.

That’s why I said he could’ve either passed it to Drouin or chipped it off the boards up to him. It’s true he looped around and had his back turned so it wasn’t a great direct pass option but that’s why I said he could’ve chipped it up the right side. Worst case scenario it ends up being an icing or a Hawks player gets it but at least it’s not in the zone.

Anyway I’m as tired of this argument as you appear to be so we will just leave it at that.

 

[Alienblood]

Let's just hope Byram picks up his play cause he isn't playing to his ability and I say fire Pratt .

At this rate, and maybe Byram wants out deep down, but he needs to go elsewhere to hit his ceiling.

I'm not advocating trading him but he needs more offensive responsibility or something to get his head on straight

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not true at all. Obivously I was exagerrating by saying he's the only one we talk about. Not a single one of those players receives the same amount of criticism as Byram, and the rest have mostly been criticized fairly. Byram has not.

People are constantly saying things that are objectively not true about him. Like he's arrogant or his teammates don't like him and won't fight for him, when LOC just did.

I mean you didn't even read my post before criticizing it. You literally said the same thing I did, but you were telling me I'm wrong. You guys just jump to conclusions constantly with Byram.

That's just so so so so untrue... RyJo and Georgie have been getting absolutely plastered all season and rightfully so. They've been awful. Toews has been getting criticized, but to a lesser degree because while he's still not playing up to his standard he's still playing halfway decent. Byram hasn't been good this year and is getting rightfully criticized for his play because he's playing well below his talent level.

The teammate stuff earlier is ridiculous and totally unfounded but that's one dude.

I said some similar things to you, you said he had a split second to chip it out. But he had more time than that. He had time to make a multitude of options(chip it out, loop back and restart the break out, ice it) and none of them should ever include trying to dangle someone at his own blue line. If we can't criticize him for making a bad play there.... It's a bad play man. You're stuck looking at it from your perspective and won't look at it from anyone else's.

 

[Foppa2118]

That’s why I said he could’ve either passed it to Drouin or chipped it off the boards up to him. It’s true he looped around and had his back turned so it wasn’t a great direct pass option but that’s why I said he could’ve chipped it up the right side. Worst case scenario it ends up being an icing or a Hawks player gets it but at least it’s not in the zone.

Anyway I’m as tired of this argument as you appear to be so we will just leave it at that.

I would disagree that would make Drouin a passing option, but I agree he had better options to chip it out. (See, this is how you and I normally disagree)

Chipping it into open ice for teammates to skate into is actually a big part of Bednar's system. Bo should know that, but he made a mistake.

Agreed on the last part, and agree to disagree on Byram in general, as I do most things.

 

[Foppa2118]

That's just so so so so untrue... RyJo and Georgie have been getting absolutely plastered all season and rightfully so. They've been awful. Toews has been getting criticized, but to a lesser degree because while he's still not playing up to his standard he's still playing halfway decent. Byram hasn't been good this year and is getting rightfully criticized for his play because he's playing well below his talent level.

The teammate stuff earlier is ridiculous and totally unfounded but that's one dude. Poke said that the play that led to the goal against last night was an arrogant play and it definitely was in a sense. Just an unnecessary play.

I said some similar things to you, you said he had a split second to chip it out. But he had more time than that. He had time to make a multitude if options and none of them should ever include trying to dangle someone at his own blue line. If we can't criticize him for making a bad play there....

They absolutely have, and a lot of it is justified. But it doesn't come close to the quantity or accuracy of the criticism of Byram. I would normally add "IMO" to that, but IMO it's not an opinion.

Agreed on the rest. Glad we can acknowledge it. I would also point out, this theme about Byram's teammates not liking him is not isolated to this instance, or one person.

There have been quite a few comments to that effect, from multiple posters. I won't harp on it anymore, but even RJ doesn't have the kind of things said about him, that people here say about Byram, and that's saying something.

Remember, this is just a 22 year old defenseman we often critique harshly, who has already been through lots of highs and lows in his career.

 

[Pokecheque]

I would disagree that would make Drouin a passing option, but I agree he had better options to chip it out. (See, this is how you and I normally disagree)

Chipping it into open ice for teammates to skate into is actually a big part of Bednar's system. Bo should know that, but he made a mistake.

Agreed on the last part, and agree to disagree on Byram in general, as I do most things.

And that’s why I feel like he’s turning into Marty Skoula 2.0. Marty also was pretty good defensively when he buckled down and stopped fancying himself a star playmaker. But the minute he started trying to force it, bad things almost always happened.

Personally I think Byram is a lot better than Skoula but that just makes things all the more frustrating. Bottom line he’s just not buying in this year.

 

[Foppa2118]

And that’s why I feel like he’s turning into Marty Skoula 2.0. Marty also was pretty good defensively when he buckled down and stopped fancying himself a star playmaker. But the minute he started trying to force it, bad things almost always happened.

Personally I think Byram is a lot better than Skoula but that just makes things all the more frustrating. Bottom line he’s just not buying in this year.

I'll just point out that I've seen you make this comparison to Skoula before, and even though I disagree strongly with it, I didn't respond to it, because I know it's just an opinion, so I don't take much issue with it.

Just my 2 cents, but Skoula played that way into his 30's, and probably beyond. Bo is 22 and the most games he's played in a regular season is 42 last year. He hasn't had any stability at all in his pro career, which is very important for young players.

He's still got to work things out, and has growing pains to get through, like all young defenseman, and that's hard to do when you're bouncing in and out of the lineup for long periods of times, with serious injuries that have made him question whether or not he wants to keep playing.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Toews deserves his share of the blame too. He’s been good, but we’ve been accustomed to him being great. When Makar goes down, you need one of these guys to step up, and no one has. I’d be trying Byram on PP1 next game to try something new. Get Bo’s confidence going.

Nah. Hes been mediocre. Hes been on a slow decline since the cup. Not sure if we will see that version of Toews again. Dominant in all 3 zones.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They absolutely have, and a lot of it is justified. But it doesn't come close to the quantity or accuracy of the criticism of Byram. I would normally add "IMO" to that, but IMO it's not an opinion.

Agreed on the rest. Glad we can acknowledge it. I would also point out, this theme about Byram's teammates not liking him is not isolated to this instance, or one person.

There have been quite a few comments to that effect, from multiple posters. I won't harp on it anymore, but even RJ doesn't have the kind of things said about him, that people here say about Byram, and that's saying something.

Remember, this is just a 22 year old defenseman we often critique harshly, who has already been through lots of highs and lows in his career.

I just think as a huge Byram fan reading his criticisms hit harder or something, because I don't see much difference to what's being said about RyJo and Georgie right now. But they aren't the young prospect fan favorites so it's not as big a deal when people rail on them.

I get that he's still young but as a 4OA pick the expectations are different. When Malinksi plays bad it's not as big a deal. He's supposed to be a depth guy. Byram is supposed to have a consistent positive impact on games and his giant fluctuations are part of whats ailing this team so much right now. Obviously its not only him there's a ton of dudes that aren't playing well, but Bo's expectations are higher than most on the team.

 

[dahrougem2]

I just don't like that Bo thought "I'm gonna dangle Bedard in the middle of the ice" as his best option. It's f***ing stupid.

Forget the part about defensemen not doing that. Forget about him potentially trying to outskate him wide.

Byram saw Bedard and thought he was about to school the most hyped prospect since Connor McDavid and it backfired.

I never want to see Byram do stuff like that.

 

[Foppa2118]

I just think as a huge Byram fan reading his criticisms hit harder or something, because I don't see much difference to what's being said about RyJo and Georgie right now. But they aren't the young prospect fan favorites so it's not as big a deal when people rail on them.

I get that he's still young but as a 4OA pick the expectations are different. When Malinksi plays bad it's not as big a deal. He's supposed to be a depth guy. Byram is supposed to have a consistent positive impact on games and his giant fluctuations are part of whats ailing this team so much right now. Obviously its not only him there's a ton of dudes that aren't playing well, but Bo's expectations are higher than most on the team.

I honestly don't think that's it. I criticize all players equally. The ones I like, and the ones I'm not as big a fan of, I also point out what they're great at. I'm obviously biased, but I think I'm very fair with my commentary.

RyJo, I thought people were too early to write him off, but I haven't said that in a while, because he hasn't really gotten it together.

I disagree with a lot of the takes on Georgiev, but I've pointed out when he's not making the saves they need, or letting in soft goals, going back to the playoffs last year.

I would criticize EJ for hitting shin pads on every shot, and making defensive errors when he made them. I criticize Nate for being a bit too moody and losing focus with the refs. I criticize Mikko for his poor execution and also losing focus with the refs. I criticize Toews for his mistakes, even though I think he's a great defenseman.

As you can see, I also criticize Byram for not chipping the puck out on that play. I even criticize Cale when he makes defensive mistakes, which I think happens more often than people realize.