GDT: Avalanche vs Bruins 1/18/24 @ 5:00PM MNT Moose vs Bear who will win?

[Pierce Hawthorne]

One graphic I saw during the game last night that surprised me. It showed 3 or 4 teams tied for first with 8 10+-goal scorers and the Avs were next with 7. We also have 3 more scorers at 8 so it looks like depth scoring hasn't been that much of a problem. Obviously the top line and top-4 dmen are being overplayed due to injuries to Lehky, Nuke, Byram, Landy as well and lack of a 2C. Our 2rd line is also being overplayed due to injuries and Ryjo but they have provided secondary scoring when needed.

I would still say the depth scoring is an issue... But ya its definitely nowhere near the biggest issues right now. Drouin stepping up the way he has, really has helped those concerns a lot for me. LOC continuing to handle his minutes and play effectively also helps.

I've said this before and still think its true. This team is really only 2 pieces away from being a top, top tier contender in my eyes and I'm still not totally convinced about the 2nd piece. Those two pieces being a legit 2C, and a starting goalie. Assuming Nuke will be back with the team and healthy by playoffs at least, and not accounting for any other potential injuries between now and the playoffs, I really do think the only thing the forward group needs is a legit 2C behind Mack.

Drouin - Mack - Mikko
Lehky - 2C - Nuke
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogs - Olofsson - Kiviranta

With a Wildcard like Kovalenko on the way as well as the possible playoff return of Landy. Maybe it would be worth adding one more 3rd line winger for cheap at the deadline, but otherwise I really think the Forwards are in good shape EXCEPT for the 2C spot.

On Defense, This group is essentially the same group they won the cup with 2 years ago. We know they're more then capable of winning again. Probably wouldn't hurt to grab a depth RD to sort of replace EJ spot in the depth chart, but that's pretty much it. You also then have Malinski as a PMD replacement in case anything happens to G or Byram, which they didn't really have on that Cup run.

Goaltending is the other major concern besides 2C right now but I'm still not totally convinced its a major concern. Obviously George has sucked ass so far but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him as the starting goalie yet. I'd instead perhaps look at grabbing a 1B type from the market. Ideally someone on a 1 year deal to make things easier next summer, but if they need to get a guy with term like Allen then so be it, solve that problem in the summer.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

I would still say the depth scoring is an issue... But ya its definitely nowhere near the biggest issues right now. Drouin stepping up the way he has, really has helped those concerns a lot for me. LOC continuing to handle his minutes and play effectively also helps.

I've said this before and still think its true. This team is really only 2 pieces away from being a top, top tier contender in my eyes and I'm still not totally convinced about the 2nd piece. Those two pieces being a legit 2C, and a starting goalie. Assuming Nuke will be back with the team and healthy by playoffs at least, and not accounting for any other potential injuries between now and the playoffs, I really do think the only thing the forward group needs is a legit 2C behind Mack.

Drouin - Mack - Mikko
Lehky - 2C - Nuke
Wood - Colton - LOC
Cogs - Olofsson - Kiviranta

With a Wildcard like Kovalenko on the way as well as the possible playoff return of Landy. Maybe it would be worth adding one more 3rd line winger for cheap at the deadline, but otherwise I really think the Forwards are in good shape EXCEPT for the 2C spot.

On Defense, This group is essentially the same group they won the cup with 2 years ago. We know they're more then capable of winning again. Probably wouldn't hurt to grab a depth RD to sort of replace EJ spot in the depth chart, but that's pretty much it. You also then have Malinski as a PMD replacement in case anything happens to G or Byram, which they didn't really have on that Cup run.

Goaltending is the other major concern besides 2C right now but I'm still not totally convinced its a major concern. Obviously George has sucked ass so far but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on him as the starting goalie yet. I'd instead perhaps look at grabbing a 1B type from the market. Ideally someone on a 1 year deal to make things easier next summer, but if they need to get a guy with term like Allen then so be it, solve that problem in the summer.

I would agree with most of this except maybe the 1B goalie. I don't think Provy has been a problem. If you exclude the last 2 games Provy has had a .924% SV in the games he has started and a .938% SV in games that he comes in relief.

His last two starts really skew his stats. When you include those last two games his SV% as a starter goes down to .901% and .895% in all situation. So overall he has been pretty solid. The issue is when he is bad he is really bad but when he has good games he is really good. When it comes to goalies I much prefer my goalies to have a few really bad games and the rest being really good games than like George right now being a consistent .895%. In other words if you are going to suck, suck real hard in a few games but give me really good games the rest of the time...better chances of winning.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I would agree with most of this except maybe the 1B goalie. I don't think Provy has been a problem. If you exclude the last 2 games Provy has had a .924% SV in the games he has started and a .938% SV in games that he comes in relief.

His last two starts really skew his stats. When you include those last two games his SV% as a starter goes down to .901% and .895% in all situation. So overall he has been pretty solid. The issue is when he is bad he is really bad but when he has good games he is really good. When it comes to goalies I much prefer my goalies to have a few really bad games and the rest being really good games than like George right now being a consistent .895%. In other words if you are going to suck, suck real hard in a few games but give me really good games the rest of the time...better chances of winning.

I tend to agree, but I'm not sure Prosvetov is good enough or at least not trusted enough to be able to push George like a 1B goalie would.


With someone like Allen, you know what you're getting and you know for sure he can push George to get his shit together or potentially take the starters spot away from him.

Prosvetov hasn't shown an ability to do that yet, and hasn't shown to have the trust of Bednar either.

 

[Foppa2118]

This is the exact problem around here, you basically just gave George a pass even though he was mid to bad again. 2 goals on the first 5 shots, again, puts your team in a huge hole right from the get go. He needs to make at least 1 of those saves. Personally think he could of had both, but I could live with it, if it was just 1.

I can imagine that the players have a let down when they are down 2 within 5 shots. Basically every game.

Simply put we need better goalie play, don't really care who's in net but we can't survive giving up 4+ every single night. As a team they need to be better at allowing high danger chances and goalies need to be much better and actually make some saves. Every game it seems like our goalies are giving up more than expected per the advanced stats. That's a trend that can't continue. Need to be better.

Me being one of the first to say Georgiev was having a problem with soft goals last year, one of the first to talk about it this year, and now me saying he wasn't good enough in this game, and needs to shut the door and needs to steal games every once in a while, is definitely not the problem here.

The problem here is people need an easy answer to satisfy their cognitive dissonance. Whether it's Bednar needing to be fired, or Kadri needing to be traded after the Avs lost, or the goaltender being the only problem to criticize. Or even comments like yours that Annunen could get the same results and lead the league in wins, even though he has yet to even show he's an NHL goalie.

An unbiased level headed view of this game, would be that the team looked sloppy as hell in the first period, and had big breakdowns on almost all the goals, and George once again was not able to make the kind of saves this team needs.

An unbiased view of the Avs problems this year, would be to point out how many mistakes the defense as a whole has made. That's all the defenseman. Toews was struggling up until recently, and even Cale has made his share of mistakes, including in this one.

 

[sethro109]

Edit: Wrong thread.....

 

[Foppa2118]

I would agree with most of this except maybe the 1B goalie. I don't think Provy has been a problem. If you exclude the last 2 games Provy has had a .924% SV in the games he has started and a .938% SV in games that he comes in relief.

His last two starts really skew his stats. When you include those last two games his SV% as a starter goes down to .901% and .895% in all situation. So overall he has been pretty solid. The issue is when he is bad he is really bad but when he has good games he is really good. When it comes to goalies I much prefer my goalies to have a few really bad games and the rest being really good games than like George right now being a consistent .895%. In other words if you are going to suck, suck real hard in a few games but give me really good games the rest of the time...better chances of winning.

I agree, I've been fine for the most part with Prosvetov, though his last game looked more concerning.

Save % just isn't an accurate way to view Avs goalies this year though. Not to say that they've been good, but they haven't been as bad as the stat implies.

And that's because the Avs are quite good defensively, but they have theses lapses, poor starts, poor second periods, bad breakdowns, where they give up grade A chances that are very hard, if not impossible to stop.

And the mistakes have mostly come from defenseman where the only guy back is the goalie. Not that he hasn't also had problems. I shouldn't need to qualify that very time, but I guess I do.

 

[henchman21]

Edit: Wrong thread.....

If this is wrong, I don’t wanna be right.

 

[Foppa2118]

This is a very reasonable, and IMO accurate view of Georgiev from Bednar after this game, who’s been fairly critical of him this year. Basically exactly what I just said.

“I think it’s hard to just separate the goalie from the play. I think there’s some nights where it feel like he needs to be better, and then I feel like there’s some nights where sub 900, with what we’ve given up, and the energy we’ve had, is a good performance.”

“For instance, pretty good game in Boston. I thought that we gave up a lot of chances. Especially in the first period. Clearly we dig ourselves a hole. We had a really good second, our third was just average. Would I like to see him come up with a big save or two, to keep the score close in the first, when our team doesn’t have the legs? Yes."

“But there’s also nights where you’re giving up the quality that we’re giving up, sometimes is an issue, not necessarily the quantity, which leads to more goals against. And there’s also games like say Montreal, where I felt our team played well enough to win, and he didn’t help us. They shot the puck real well, and we created a bunch of chances, and didn’t shot the puck real well, so it looks like their goalie outplayed our goalie right?"

“So depending on the night, and the little stretch we’re in, I think you’re gonna see all three of those scenarios play out. So I’m not too concerned on just the save percentage whatever, I just want to make sure that when he’s in the net that he’s giving us a real good chance to win hockey games, there’s no weak ones going in. If he does that, generally on most nights, we are winning.”

“But I’d like to see it elevated as the season goes on here. His play. Our team’s play.”

 

[the_fan]

Like it or not you have to live with Georgiev for at least another month and a half because I don’t think CMac is gonna do anything until the trade deadline. What’s the point of banging your heads after every game Avs lose and Georgiev doesn’t play well?

Regardless how the Avs lose games, most of you here are blaming Georgiev. So just do it in advance so you don’t have to post it after every game. For example we know Avs gonna lose tomorrow in Philly because when was the last time Avs won a morning game? So you already know its Georgiev’s fault for losing tomorrow, you don’t need to post it again after the game

 

[henchman21]

Like it or not you have to live with Georgiev for at least another month and a half because I don’t think CMac is gonna do anything until the trade deadline. What’s the point of banging your heads after every game Avs lose and Georgiev doesn’t play well?

Regardless how the Avs lose games, most of you here are blaming Georgiev. So just do it in advance so you don’t have to post it after every game. For example we know Avs gonna lose tomorrow in Philly because when was the last time Avs won a morning game? So you already know its Georgiev’s fault for losing tomorrow, you don’t need to post it again after the game

 

[wayninja]

I'm just here to blame georgiev for tomorrows game, but the instructions weren't clear... do I do that here, or wait for the thread or...?

 

[henchman21]

I'm just here to blame georgiev for tomorrows game, but the instructions weren't clear... do I do that here, or wait for the thread or...?

This thread is for a meltdown about the meaning of life and if it is all worth it.

Now if you start the Flyers GDT, we crucify him there. I already bought the nails.

 

[wayninja]

This thread is for a meltdown about the meaning of life and if it is all worth it.

Now if you start the Flyers GDT, we crucify him there. I already bought the nails.

Ok, I'll wait for that thread then thanks. Maybe we should sticky this.

 

[henchman21]

Ok, I'll wait for that thread then thanks. Maybe we should sticky this.

What would even be the point?

 

[Foppa2118]

Great post. I would also add to this that a good amount of these HD shots are caused by a very bad/dumb giveaway by one of our dmen or FWD. They obviously have some defensive breakdowns (all teams do) but I find that a good amount are self inflected.

Doesn't your point here negate that post from being a good one?

Since it disagreed that high dangers chances have been a problem, and said Georgiev has been the problem, and the defense is still playing like one of the best defenses in the league?

 

[wayninja]

What would even be the point?

So people know the proper procedure for blaming george silly

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Doesn't your point here negate that post from being a good one?

Since it disagreed that high dangers chances have been a problem, and said Georgiev has been the problem, and the defense is still playing like one of the best defenses in the league?

What I was trying to say is that even if HD chances are not the main problem for George I still feel like a good portion of them are self inflected. We do have breakdowns but I feel like the HD chances are often due to really bad turnovers by one of our guys instead of positional mistakes for examples. I was more commenting on the cause of the HDCA not the amount of them. The stats show we are still a very good defensive team.

The stats also show that he has problems with the less dangerous chances against which are the saves he should have less problems with.

 

[henchman21]

So people know the proper procedure for blaming george silly

 

[the_fan]

I'm just here to blame georgiev for tomorrows game, but the instructions weren't clear... do I do that here, or wait for the thread or...?

I say we start a Blame Georgiev thread and sticky it

 

[Foppa2118]

What I was trying to say is that even if HD chances are not the main problem for George I still feel like a good portion of them are self inflected. We do have breakdowns but I feel like the HD chances are often due to really bad turnovers by one of our guys instead of positional mistakes for examples. I was more commenting on the cause of the HDCA not the amount of them. The stats show we are still a very good defensive team.

The stats also show that he has problems with the less dangerous chances against which are the saves he should have less problems with.

I would agree with that for the most part.

I think one thing that doesn't get mentioned though, is that it's not just the volume of high danger chances, but the actual quality, and the timing of them within games.

For example, if a team gave up 10 shots in a game, and only four high danger chances, but all four were back door tap ins the goalie had no chance on, that would kill the goalies save percentage, and not indicate a problem with high danger chances.

This is an extreme example, but I really think some form of that has been happenign this year with the Avs. It's also the timing of the breakdowns.

The Avs will come out with a terrible first period like in Boston, and give up multiple goals off awful breakdowns and sloppy play while Georgiev can't make the save, and then play fairly well for the rest of the game, but still lose.

Or they'll play well in the first period, get the lead or be tied, and then give up the lead in the second with the same kind of sloppy play and breakdowns. It's been an issue all year.

Both goaltending and the D core as a whole have been the Avs problem this year. I think the D core can be better for sure, and some of them like Toews have, but the question remains if George can get better.

I do think he can play to a Kuemper like level though, where the Avs can win with average goaltending, as long as he cuts out the soft goals.

 

[wayninja]

I say we start a Blame Georgiev thread and sticky it

These are the kinds of ideas I come here looking for.

 

[the_fan]

AJ on DNVR said Makar, Malinski, JJ played a bad game yet he’s also the guy who puts all the blame on Georgiev. I mean when half of your D plays shitty, your goalie is gonna play shitty too unless you have Roy or Hasek in net.

That’s the thing though, maybe you guys think we have Roy in net and expect him to bail the team out when the D plays like crap but you forget that we only have a 3 million dollar goalie back there and it ain’t Roy

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

AJ on DNVR said Makar, Malinski, JJ played a bad game yet he’s also the guy who puts all the blame on Georgiev. I mean when half of your D plays shitty, your goalie is gonna play shitty too unless you have Roy or Hasek in net.

That’s the thing though, maybe you guys think we have Roy in net and expect him to bail the team out when the D plays like crap but you forget that we only have a 3 million dollar goalie back there and it ain’t Roy

Toews wasn't great either. He lost containment several times, was kept off balance by Bruin fwds quick directional changes along the boards and was a step behind the play in several instances.

Too many times, the Avs D stopped skating on the play which allowed the Bruins to get open as they were going to the net.

The play isn't over until the whistle is blown.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

George needs to be better. I'm not a George apologist but I do see it like others here. The chances we give up due to mental breakdowns in the D zone are nuts at time, and not necessarily in number. We've seen the stats that we don't give up the most HD chances, but when you delineate chances into categories (low, medium, high) they are not all created equal. There is a range to them. We've strung George, Annunen, and Pro out with stupid turnovers between the hash marks and left them no chance to make a save.

But still every single goal is Georges fault. Even backhanded lasers from the slot that no one saw coming he should have stopped.

Then there's the comments like "if George has been in net he'd have let in 7"... And things of that ilk. There's a narrative here that some people just cannot get past. Even in games where he plays well there's always nitpicking.

George has been bad. But he's not been the only bad player. He needs to do better. And so do those around him.

 

[Pokecheque]

AJ on DNVR said Makar, Malinski, JJ played a bad game yet he’s also the guy who puts all the blame on Georgiev. I mean when half of your D plays shitty, your goalie is gonna play shitty too unless you have Roy or Hasek in net.

That’s the thing though, maybe you guys think we have Roy in net and expect him to bail the team out when the D plays like crap but you forget that we only have a 3 million dollar goalie back there and it ain’t Roy

No one is expecting him to be Roy or 2014 Varly. The team clearly didn’t play well and the goalie wasn’t good either. Both things can be true.