GDT: Avalanche @ Sabres | 10:30 AM MT | February 14, 2016

[StLAvsFan]

Like I said, I don't mind Duchene or MacKinnon being a 60 point players instead of 80 or 100, but I hope they'll start showing more leadership and passion instead of being cocky and showboating

Good post. Sports fans tend to be cursed with short term memories (I'm no exception). It wasn't that long ago that this team, with the same coaching staff and largely the same roster, was playing good hockey with some moxie and crawled back into a playoff spot. They've been bad lately but there's no reason why what is happening now is more indicative of the future than that stretch where they climbed back into playoff contention. It's clear they have some roster issues which may only be fixed in the off season, but the team with it's present roster can play better than they are now, and it shouldn't be surprising to anyone if they have another stretch where they play well and secure a playoff spot.

Hell look at that other team in town that just finished their season. I don't think many observers would have called that finish during a period in November. Things change in a season. It happens all the time yet fans always think the present state will last forever.

I don't think it's simply that Avs fans are disgruntled and have a "the sky is falling" mentality here. Alot of this negativism---mine included, revolves around the passivity this team has displayed in all but yesterday's game (post-All-Star break). I've seen a team that has been virtually dominated in every aspect of the game, except goaltending, with little or no pushback, in 6 out of the last 7 games. That's not just a roster or coaching issue either. That's a gut check issue, that raises red flags in terms of how willing these guys are to physically & mentally push hard to become a better team. And what makes it worse is the Avs predictably keep having these backsliding regressions. Playing structured, semi-smart hockey just doesn't seem to catch on with these guys, because they always seem to revert back to their preferred train wreck style eventually.

 

[Jayevs]

12-7-9
92-34-14
25-29-40
55-62-27

That top line is atrocious, Colorado needs to pull of a Perron type trade, something that could spark the team, even getting someone like Lupul or Pirri I think could make a difference.

I miss the 55-7-8

 

[dahrougem2]

As far as power forwards go, let's compare Landeskog to Lucic or Ovechkin as far as hitting go. Those guys been in the NHL longer than Landeskog and they're both throwing their body around every game and they're consistent as far as physicality goes. Landeskog has few good games and then he's pretty quiet for a while where he's pretty useless as a power forward.

Some people make the he's playing with injury excuse since like last season, if he's that injured that's gonna prevent him to be consistent for rest of his career, just trade him while he still has value, but I don't think he's playing with injury, he's just an inconsistent player, reminds me of Stastny

Do you even watch games?

Why in the hell would you compare Landeskog to a generational forward like Ovechkin? Should we compare Duchene to Crosby, too?

Lucic's job is to be the 3rd best forward on his line and hit everything in sight to create space for Kopitar. Different role than Landeskog

 

[tigervixxxen]

That top line is atrocious, Colorado needs to pull of a Perron type trade, something that could spark the team, even getting someone like Lupul or Pirri I think could make a difference.

I miss the 55-7-8

I really have no idea if that was the top line anyway. Someone had to go first. MacK and Grigo had a good but of time last game. It's better than what they started with McLeod with MacK.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I just read a post on the main boards where a Sabres fan talked about how the Avs played well in the first two periods against Buffalo but that doesn't say much since Buffalo has been playing poorly the last few weeks. Really? The 3rd worse team in the NHL has been playing poorly the last few weeks?

 

[agentblack]

I just read a post on the main boards where a Sabres fan talked about how the Avs played well in the first two periods against Buffalo but that doesn't say much since Buffalo has been playing poorly the last few weeks. Really? The 3rd worse team in the NHL has been playing poorly the last few weeks?

Very similar to the Leafs view of their team being "better" this year. How? Your dead last.

 

[the_fan]

Do you even watch games?

Why in the hell would you compare Landeskog to a generational forward like Ovechkin? Should we compare Duchene to Crosby, too?

Lucic's job is to be the 3rd best forward on his line and hit everything in sight to create space for Kopitar. Different role than Landeskog

Lucic and Landeskog have similar point production but Lucic actually plays like a power forward almost every game, Landeskog plays like a power forward for 3 or 4 games then he's like a soft forward for the next 9 games or so and very ineffective, and i was only comparing him to Ovechkin as far as power forward hitting game goes.

As a power forward you need to be physical pretty much every game. For Ovechkin it's different because he's actually very gifted offensively and can score 50 goals so even if he's not hitting people, he's scoring goals, but guys like Lucic and Landeskog with minimal offensive talent, they need to be physical game in game out and play that power forward game where Ovechkin doesn't, Ovy can be a sniper if he's not a PF

 

[tigervixxxen]

Very similar to the Leafs view of their team being "better" this year. How? Your dead last.

It really is amazing to me the narrative they've created in Leaf land. They are terrible but it's only because they have straight garbage playing "the system" so as long as they look good losing then they can blame it on having no talent. And they want to tank so that's exactly what they want to happen.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

Very similar to the Leafs view of their team being "better" this year. How? Your dead last.

They are playing much better. Buffalo, Columbus and Edmonton have better rosters than them but only a couple more points. Furthermore, it took Bernier something like 10-12 games to get a win. I said it a few pages back. Babcock has them playing a particular system. With better players in that system, they'll get more wins.

Edit: @ TV, blame it? I've seen you and others say we're sorely missing talent? If we're missing talent then what the heck are the Leafs missing? A roster full of capable NHL players lol.

 

[AslanRH]

The lacking talent excuse gets used a lot

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

The lacking talent line is true, though. The Avs have literally gotten ZERO secondary scoring. In February, they've played 7 games, and no one in the bottom 6 has scored an ES goal.

The only even strength goals they've gotten from anyone in the bottom 6 in the last 17 games are from Wagner and Grigorenko, and Grigorenko's goal was assisted by Duchene (and he's since moved into top 6).

 

[tigervixxxen]

When was the last time Mitchell scored a goal?

We have four top 6 players and even still some people would prefer Soda on the third line, then a revolving door at wing. But none of this is news.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

People can rip on MacKinnon all they want, and that's what a lot are doing on here, but it's incredibly easy for other teams to just focus on him because the Avs have very little depth beyond him. I love Soderberg, but he's not going to scare anyone, and they'll put all their best defenders out against MacKinnon and make Soderberg beat them.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

The lacking talent line is true, though. The Avs have literally gotten ZERO secondary scoring. In February, they've played 7 games, and no one in the bottom 6 has scored an ES goal.

The only even strength goals they've gotten from anyone in the bottom 6 in the last 17 games are from Wagner and Grigorenko, and Grigorenko's goal was assisted by Duchene (and he's since moved into top 6).

So in my opinion corsi does hold weight then. When you don't possess the puck and you do not have Duchene or Mackinnon talent you don't score. Our system needs work. I'm not fully blaming Roy but I would like more from him and the team. In the past 8-10 games we've only looked good against Buffalo who took an early two goal lead against us. Unacceptable.

We have played a lot lately, which cannot be understated. I am interested in Wednesdays game. We did look good in Buffalo's zone so hopefully we can take that to the next game.

 

[AslanRH]

I was speaking league wide. Reading through the various boards over the last few years, secondary talent seems to be a consistent gripe among most fanbases.

I'll leave the Avs analysis to those with better knowledge

 

[Trinstin]

Well Duchene was suppose to be the better player than ROR and the fact that ROR is out producing Duchene while playing on one of the bottom teams in the NHL tells you how much some Avs fans on here overrated Duchene

I see that last sentence and the only thing I can see is ''tells you how much some Avs fans on here underrated O'Reilly

 

[dahrougem2]

People can rip on MacKinnon all they want, and that's what a lot are doing on here, but it's incredibly easy for other teams to just focus on him because the Avs have very little depth beyond him. I love Soderberg, but he's not going to scare anyone, and they'll put all their best defenders out against MacKinnon and make Soderberg beat them.

MacKinnon shuts himself down more than other teams' defenders shut him down

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

MacKinnon shuts himself down more than other teams' defenders shut him down

Sure.

 

[dahrougem2]

Sure.

It's what I see when I watch him

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

So what about Duchene then? He's struggled just as much recently, and in this 14 game span where they've really hit a wall, he has one less point than MacKinnon. Or is that all MacKinnon's fault too?

It's pretty obvious that teams are focusing on those two and begging the rest of the team to beat them. They can't do it.

 

[ABasin]

So what about Duchene then? He's struggled just as much recently, and in this 14 game span where they've really hit a wall, he has one less point than MacKinnon. Or is that all MacKinnon's fault too?

It's pretty obvious that teams are focusing on those two and begging the rest of the team to beat them. They can't do it.

I see your point about the lack of depth, and that other teams' best guys are pointed towards our best guys.

But why don't our best guys win these match ups?

We have four top3 NHL draft picks, all in the prime of their careers (MacKinnon may be a bit early). Is even one of them performing at a level that leaves us fans feeling good about it? All four of them - MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, and Johnson - seem like good solid players, but pretty far from great/special players.

A whole lot of meh.

 

[Avs_19]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. The best players on this team aren't playing like it and the depth behind them is providing nothing.

Probably going to be an unpopular idea but I think it's time to get Landeskog back next to MacKinnon. Soderberg's production will take a hit and so will the "shutdown" line but something has to happen to get the top guys going.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It probably is time to put Mack and Duchene on separate lines again but that also means they have to play with Tanguay and Iginla

 

[Avs44]

I see your point about the lack of depth, and that other teams' best guys are pointed towards our best guys.

But why don't our best guys win these match ups?

We have four top3 NHL draft picks, all in the prime of their careers (MacKinnon may be a bit early). Is even one of them performing at a level that leaves us fans feeling good about it? All four of them - MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, and Johnson - seem like good solid players, but pretty far from great/special players.

A whole lot of meh.

It's a combination of both. Our top guys simply are not performing well enough (but as I've said before, MacKinnon needs more time before we judge him), and we may just have to accept that Duchene and Landeskog are going to be good, not great, top 6 forwards. Duchene will always have his game breaking ridiculously good ability, but he is far too streaky to be counted on consistently. I obviously think that means MacKinnon has to reach near elite or elite level if we are going to ever become a contender.


But at the same time...we're not putting any of these guys in a position to really succeed. MacKinnon looked on his way to stardom in his rookie year - when he had Stastny and Landeskog as his linemates. Duchene was a PPG player, he looked like the star, all year long, that we thought he should be - and he had O'Reilly stapled to his wing.


Despite the success they did have together, I do not think Duchene / MacKinnon is a good combo, but if we separate them and keep them both at centre...(and if we want to keep Soda-Landeskog), we're giving them the pickings of Tanguay / Iginla / Comeau / Grigorenko / Mitchell / McLeod as their linemates...? Even Penguins fans, for years with Crosby, the best player in the league, bemoaned the lack of a top winger for him to play with. Heck, Crosby and Malkin. Obviously they still produced top numbers, but the point is that great / good players still need good teammates, and we don't have much of those to offer our best players.

 

[Jarey Curry]

I see that last sentence and the only thing I can see is ''tells you how much some Avs fans on here underrated O'Reilly

That is only one season and Duchene 6m/year is better than O'Reilly 7,5m/year in the long run