Avalanche Player Rankings #3

[Bubba Thudd]

Hey... only wanted 6 options.

Sorry. I nixed the 2nd Staz, but didn't know who you wanted him replaced with. I added Barrie, but was then told I should've added ROR instead. I can drop one if you want...

Looks like Barrie has no votes anyway...

 

[Avs For Life]

Previous winners as in Duchene and Varlamov? That would defeat the purpose...

As for the MacK/ROR voting thing. That's simple, a smaller group of people feel one or the other is clearly better than the bulk of fans do, while the bulk continue on what I would consider the "true path" in terms of rankings.

In reality, it's this 3rd/4th best player that will start making things interesting.

I personally see it as Landeskog or Erik Johnson, but a good argument can be made for Stastny and ROR too. MacKinnon less-so in my opinion because outside of his offense his game was very raw and there's only so much a high end offense can make up for defensively compared to guys like ROR, Staz and Landy whom are all excellent 2-way players but also produced similarly to MacK either in regular season or the postseason.

VERY well said. Agree 100%. Mack was excellent for a rookie but still has a ways to go to be in the top 5 on this team. He will get there, he just isn't right now.

 

[AslanRH]

EJ
Add Talbot

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Sorry. I nixed the 2nd Staz, but didn't know who you wanted him replaced with. I added Barrie, but was then told I should've added ROR instead. I can drop one if you want...

Looks like Barrie has no votes anyway...

My bad, I'm a bit hungover and haven't slept for over a day... can a mod edit the 2nd Staz to be ROR?

It's all good Bubba. One extra option won't ruin the poll, it's more important later on anyways to avoid a vote spread given the smaller base we have to vote from on the boards.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I know this isn't a prospect poll but are those that played at some point for the team like Hishon, Elliott eligible?

 

[bromando]

ROR for me. I'll take him over Landy at this point in time and it's hard to compare him with EJ, but I just like how ridiculously well rounded ROR is. The only thing he doesn't do much is hit but I'll take that. Elite defense, good shot, great passing, good offensive awareness, good leader, and very well disciplined...he won't carry a team to a cup but that's why we have Duchene, Landy, and Mack. If everything goes well, Landy and Mack will surpass ROR soon without ROR regressing.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I know this isn't a prospect poll but are those that played at some point for the team like Hishon, Elliott eligible?

Depends what everyone wants to do. I could see the idea of adding them since they're both RFAs and likely to be retained whereas guys like Sarich, Giggy, Benoit are probably going to leave.

This is a democratic poll series, not a dictatorship. The only thing I am adamant about (and would be whomever ran the poll) is that we didn't rank on potential.

 

[cgf]

If Johnson doesn't win this, I have lost in faith of all Avs fans.

Why? Paul is a better player.

 

[Mantha Poodoo]

EJ, Staz close.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'm taking Landy in this one. EJ is clearly the best player in an important position but overall I believe Landy's skill set is better. I don't want to go heavily off of last year/stats but on thing to point out Landy lead the league in even strength primary assists. Whilst perusing stats I saw that EJ had 101 shot attempts blocked.

I'm going to suggest Hishon added to the poll next. The top tier (or two depending how you want to define it) is clearly established but I think some might vote for Hishon over Talbot, etc or at least the discussion would be worthwhile since a decent amount of people believe he can make it out of camp next year.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I'm taking Landy in this one. EJ is clearly the best player in an important position but overall I believe Landy's skill set is better. I don't want to go heavily off of last year/stats but on thing to point out Landy lead the league in even strength primary assists. Whilst perusing stats I saw that EJ had 101 shot attempts blocked.

I'm going to suggest Hishon added to the poll next. The top tier (or two depending how you want to define it) is clearly established but I think some might vote for Hishon over Talbot, etc or at least the discussion would be worthwhile since a decent amount of people believe he can make it out of camp next year.

I'm going to trim it back to 6 players next poll, so no one else will be added for #4.

But #5 I'd probably suggest McGinn before Hishon. Do you think Hishon is already better than McGinn curiously?

 

[PepsiCenterMagic]

Stastny. His playoff performance tipped him over the edge for me. 71 pts. in 60 games, and his offensive vision helped that Landeskog/MacKinnon line.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I'm going to trim it back to 6 players next poll, so no one else will be added for #4.

But #5 I'd probably suggest McGinn before Hishon. Do you think Hishon is already better than McGinn curiously?

Sure, that makes sense.

Do I personally, no. But I'm also in the camp that thinks no way Hishon makes the team. I think adding him into the mix where McGinn, PA, Talbot, Mitchell ect are discussed is at least worthwhile to the discussion.

So yeah, I'll hold on the Hishon suggestion. I know we are not at that point yet.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Went with EJ, but could see the arguments for Landy, ROR, and Stastny. 3-6 is all real close.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Previous winners as in Duchene and Varlamov? That would defeat the purpose...

As for the MacK/ROR voting thing. That's simple, a smaller group of people feel one or the other is clearly better than the bulk of fans do, while the bulk continue on what I would consider the "true path" in terms of rankings.

In reality, it's this 3rd/4th best player that will start making things interesting.

I personally see it as Landeskog or Erik Johnson, but a good argument can be made for Stastny and ROR too. MacKinnon less-so in my opinion because outside of his offense his game was very raw and there's only so much a high end offense can make up for defensively compared to guys like ROR, Staz and Landy whom are all excellent 2-way players but also produced similarly to MacK either in regular season or the postseason.

I dont think it would defeat the purpose. It should be more accurate. Its not like the people who voted Duchene and Varly #1 and #2 are still voting for them at 3 and 4. But that does give the option for people who did not vote them #1 and #2 to still vote for them where they think they go. Now these people who have not voted for them are forced to vote for someone they think is either #1, #2 or #4. Some people are going to go back to #1 or #2 even though they already voted for them, while others are going to go to #4 thinking they cant vote for the same person again. That could throw off the results when the voting starts getting closer. Maybe the overall results will come out right, but there is definitely room for error and we wont know for sure.

Honestly, even if you added the winners back in I am not sure how accurate this will be in the end. Everyone needs to vote with the same concept in mind but it does not appear they are. Either everyone needs to vote with the idea that they are voting for the "1st/2nd/3rd/etc best player on the team", in which case the winners must be available for choosing for it to be dead on accurate. Or everyone needs to vote their top choice of those still left and keep going with the same player if said player did not win the previous poll, which is the only way to get a "true path" with the way the polls are set up now. Seems we are getting a mix of these concepts in the voting though, which will throw off the results eventually.

Right now it doesnt matter because there are clear winners. But what happens when someone wins just by 1 vote? And I have a feeling its going to start getting very close. Lets say Staz beats MacK in poll #6 35 votes to 34. Lets say some of the 35 voters for Staz had been taking the next best player concept and had been voting for Staz since poll #2 or #3 or whatever poll they originally voted Staz for. But the 34 voters for MacK followed the "who is the 6th best player" concept and this is the first time any of them are voting for MacK. MacK still had 11 other people vote him as the 2nd best player on top of the 34 who had him as the 6th best. So thats actually 45 people who think MacK is better than Staz compared to Staz's 35. And to top it off, some of those people who voted MacK #2 are now voting for Staz at #6 because thats where they think Staz falls. Their votes actually help Staz win over MacK even though they thought MacK was the 2nd best player on the team. Obviously this scenario is highly unlikely, but the point still stands even if we are talking just one voter. If everyone is not voting with the same concept in mind then the end results are not going to be accurate. Maybe the end results will come out in the right order, but we wont know for sure unless the poll shows which posters voted for whom. That way we could literally count how many posters voted for said players in that poll and the previous polls. If someone votes MacK #2 but another player at #6, then MacK should get an extra vote at #6. If someone votes MacK #2 and #6 then that is just one vote for MacK #6.

Agreed about MacK. He should not be in the discussion yet at #3.

 

[PepsiCenterMagic]

I like the consensus, one at a time approach. I'm fine with Duchene and Varlamov being off the ballot.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Iv'e noticed polls are done this way all over the site, so it's consistent in that way. The prospect poll we do will historically match other prospect polls and so on. The big forward rankings on the main board are done this way too.

I understand the point that a large subsection has MacK high enough where he's in the running for #2 but he'll probably end up like 5th because the majority is going Varly>EJ> etc and doesn't reflect that Mack does have the support. Im ok doing it this way to get a majority rules ranking. If it was a points system ranking or something like that we might arrive at different results and could do that later.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Honestly, even if you added the winners back in I am not sure how accurate this will be in the end. Everyone needs to vote with the same concept in mind but it does not appear they are. Either everyone needs to vote with the idea that they are voting for the "1st/2nd/3rd/etc best player on the team", in which case the winners must be available for choosing for it to be dead on accurate. Or everyone needs to vote their top choice of those still left and keep going with the same player if said player did not win the previous poll, which is the only way to get a "true path" with the way the polls are set up now. Seems we are getting a mix of these concepts in the voting though, which will throw off the results eventually.

I can't speak for everyone, but I am fairly confident that people will persistently vote the same player each poll if they haven't gone yet.

What's the point of not? If someone felt MacKinnon was the 2nd best, they're not going to try and vote him in as the 3rd best?

You don't vote your list, you vote your favorite still on the list. That's the way all polls are done and it creates a fan-made result which can be used to look back on and see how the majority's opinion changes over time or how someone improves.

See: My poll before last year asking if people thought Duchy or MacK would end up the better players in the future. I'm quite interested to see how those results pan out.

 

[member 116861]

Went with EJ.

 

[HockeyFan100]

Landeskog, then EJ.

 

[Pete Mitchell]

Went with EJ, boiled down to importance factor as I believe EJ is more important to the team than ROR/Mandeskog/Staz/MacK, next round my head might explode trying to choose between those 4.

Add Tanguay, can't ignore that they were 14/15 and 1 with him in the line up.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Stastny. His playoff performance tipped him over the edge for me. 71 pts. in 60 games, and his offensive vision helped that Landeskog/MacKinnon line.

I went with Stastny too but he didn't have 71 pts in 60 games. He had 60 points in 71 regular season games. Plus another 10 points in 7 playoff games which gives him 70 points in 78 games combined which is a fantastic year!

His two way game is better than any other player on the team. Maybe If O'Reilly had more centre duties he would be as good but we don't know that for sure. 2013-2014 Stastny was better defensively than 2013 O'Reilly when he last played full time at centre.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I can't speak for everyone, but I am fairly confident that people will persistently vote the same player each poll if they haven't gone yet.

What's the point of not? If someone felt MacKinnon was the 2nd best, they're not going to try and vote him in as the 3rd best?

You don't vote your list, you vote your favorite still on the list. That's the way all polls are done and it creates a fan-made result which can be used to look back on and see how the majority's opinion changes over time or how someone improves.

See: My poll before last year asking if people thought Duchy or MacK would end up the better players in the future. I'm quite interested to see how those results pan out.

It doesnt look like people are persistently voting for the same player. MacK had 12, but now only 5. Some still are voting for him I am sure, but it does not appear everyone is. Thats really the only reason i said anything. I questioned who i should vote for and I am sure I am not the only one. Then I noticed that MacK was not getting nearly as many votes as before. Are you allowed to look at the poll results as in who voted for MacK in #2? I know some sites are set up that way and this format looks very similar. If you can, figure out who those 12 were and then see who they voted for in #3.

"you dont vote your list, you vote your favorite still on the list".- this needs to be well known to all poll takers. In the poll you specifically said "Who is the 2nd best Avalanche player on the team?" for both polls (obviously meant 3rd for #3 though). That can be taken both ways very easily. To me, that means vote who you think is the 2nd/3rd best on the team, not who is the best player on the current list.

I went with Stastny too but he didn't have 71 pts in 60 games. He had 60 points in 71 regular season games. Plus another 10 points in 7 playoff games which gives him 70 points in 78 games combined which is a fantastic year!

His two way game is better than any other player on the team. Maybe If O'Reilly had more centre duties he would be as good but we don't know that for sure. 2013-2014 Stastny was better defensively than 2013 O'Reilly when he last played full time at centre.

Its not that simple. O'Reilly had plenty of C duties, especially on the D side. The wings and centers were not defined to their traditional C, W roles.

 

[PepsiCenterMagic]

I went with Stastny too but he didn't have 71 pts in 60 games. He had 60 points in 71 regular season games. Plus another 10 points in 7 playoff games which gives him 70 points in 78 games combined which is a fantastic year!

I need to hire an editor for my posts.

 

[nanzenkills]

I voted for EJ and will probably vote for ROR next. The next 3, ROR, Stastny, and Landy are going to be really close for me, but I think that's the order that I have them in right now.

The first 3 were pretty easy, for me at least, and I agree with the consensus on all of them.