GDT: Avalanche @ Penguins | November 19th, 5MT | March of the Guenins

[Foppa2118]

Refs deserve two points in this one not the Pens. Textbook example of how to influence a game.

Avs have a hard fought 1-0 lead, and they call three crazy soft penalties in a row. First a debateable and delayed offsides by literally three seconds directly leads to a phantom high stick on Beauchemin off the draw that never touched the mans face, and eliminates the Avs PP. Ensuing faceoff and they get a lucky 4 on 4 goal off Peron's back, then a PP goal from a Malkin blast. Just like that 2-1.

Then they call a weak hook on MacKinnon where his stick slides up the mans stick and taps his hands and doesn't even phase him or cause him to lose possession. Then a weak cross check on Holden where he just shoves Crosby and he takes a dive with a 3-1 lead.

All that said, I think the Avs finished this game in a fashion where they can hold their head high. They never quit one bit. Even I basically quit when Holden once again forget how to play defense and gave up that back breaking, and what should have been an incredibly deflating 4-2 goal right after they pulled within one.

They were incredibly close to beating both the Pens and the Refs by tying it late, and then possibly winning it in OT where I would have bet a lot of money on Nate absolutely flying down the ice and scoring.

Duchene continues to stake out the front of the net and utilize his short stick the best way possible, and thats pulling loose pucks towards his body and flinging them up high from in close. Great job by him to continue having that killer instinct mentality and bury his chances rather than shooting them into pads.

EJ had an out of this world game in all three zone. Can't say enough about the game he played. Almost willed them to victory all by himself. He's become an impeccable leader for this team, and with te way he was battling Malkin out there defensively, and then skating up ice in transition and contributing offensively, he had shades of Pronger out there tonight.

Tough to lose again when they need wins, but overall they played another very good game for the most part. Hope they use this finish as a positive. They NEED to carry over a positive mentality right now to find more wins on this road trip, and they deserve it with the way they battled in this one.

 

[dahrougem2]

Comeau isn't great to begin with and he's being played way too much here. He's a 12-14 min/gm guy. There aren't many options right now but when/if there eventually are, he needs to be limited.

This team still has a lot of work to do for the future. Rantanen and (hopefully) Bleackley are coming but they're likely just replacing Iginla and Tanguay when they leave, we're still going to need a lot more depth in order to avoid future situations of Comeau, or Comeau-like players having to play this many minutes in a top-6 role.

 

[PeterTheGreat]

Refs deserve two points in this one not the Pens. Textbook example of how to influence a game.

Avs have a hard fought 1-0 lead, and they call three crazy soft penalties in a row. First a debateable and delayed offsides by literally three seconds directly leads to a phantom high stick on Beauchemin off the draw that never touched the mans face, and eliminates the Avs PP. Ensuing faceoff and they get a lucky 4 on 4 goal off Peron's back, then a PP goal from a Malkin blast. Just like that 2-1.

Then they call a weak hook on MacKinnon where his stick slides up the mans stick and taps his hands and doesn't even phase him or cause him to lose possession. Then a weak cross check on Holden where he just shoves Crosby and he takes a dive with a 3-1 lead.

All that said, I think the Avs finished this game in a fashion where they can hold their head high. They never quit one bit. Even I basically quit when Holden once again forget how to play defense and gave up that back breaking, and what should have been an incredibly deflating 4-2 goal right after they pulled within one.

They were incredibly close to beating both the Pens and the Refs by tying it late, and then possibly winning it in OT where I would have bet a lot of money on Nate absolutely flying down the ice and scoring.

Duchene continues to stake out the front of the net and utilize his short stick the best way possible, and thats pulling loose pucks towards his body and flinging them up high from in close. Great job by him to continue having that killer instinct mentality and bury his chances rather than shooting them into pads.

EJ had an out of this world game in all three zone. Can't say enough about the game he played. Almost willed them to victory all by himself. He's become an impeccable leader for this team, and with te way he was battling Malkin out there defensively, and then skating up ice in transition and contributing offensively, he had shades of Pronger out there tonight.

Tough to lose again when they need wins, but overall they played another very good game for the most part. Hope they use this finish as a positive. They NEED to carry over a positive mentality right now to find more wins on this road trip, and they deserve it with the way they battled in this one.

Agreed with all this except the 4th Pittsburgh goal was Barrie's fault not Holdens.

 

[Foppa2118]

Agreed with all this except the 4th Pittsburgh goal was Barrie's fault not Holdens.

It's a close one as far as who played it worse, and Barrie was caught flat footed for just a split second, but Holden being the man furthest into the zone should probably take the man driving to the net and angle him away, while Barrie can step in and either deflect the shot away or play the body, and Barrie's likely going to be caught on the wrong side of Crosby either way.

Instead Holden drops to his knees to block the shot, and lets a pass from the high slot go to the low slot to the best player in the league. Making himself basically useless on the play.

Even if Holden as the guy deeper in his zone decides to take the man higher in the slot, he needs to block that pass. He didn't.

I also give Barrie a slight pass because I don't think he was skating nearly as well as he usually does after the linesman stepped on his foot. He was having troubles turning from skating backward to forward, and moving laterally. Another stupid play by a zebra. Selfishly concerned with falling back into the bench as he's bumped while sitting on the boards, so he puts all his weight forward, and steps on the back of Barrie's foot. Almost lacerated his achilles.

 

[The Kingslayer]

It's a close one as far as who played it worse, and Barrie was caught flat footed for just a split second, but Holden being the man furthest into the zone should probably take the man driving to the net and angle him away, while Barrie can step in and either deflect the shot away or play the body, and Barrie's likely going to be caught on the wrong side of Crosby either way.

Instead Holden drops to his knees to block the shot, and lets a pass from the high slot go to the low slot to the best player in the league. Making himself basically useless on the play.

Even if Holden as the guy deeper in his zone decides to take the man higher in the slot, he needs to block that pass. He didn't.

I also give Barrie a slight pass because I don't think he was skating nearly as well as he usually does after the linesman stepped on his foot. He was having troubles turning from skating backward to forward, and moving laterally. Another stupid play by a zebra. Selfishly concerned with falling back into the bench as he's bumped while sitting on the boards, so he puts all his weight forward, and steps on the back of Barrie's foot. Almost lacerated his achilles.

Glad I wasnt the only one who blamed that goal more on Holden than Barrie.

 

[Foppa2118]

0Just watched the post game presser. Good on Roy for his end comments. He's been a bit critical of Varly, and then last game despite the good games from Berra, he made some comments about getting a big save, to show consistency in his critique.

Then after he's been critical of Duchene's slow start, he's giving Dutchy credit for playing well, and now is being critical of the secondary scoring which has been another big problem with this team this year. "No way" he says he'll break up the top line that's playing the best right now, it's up to the rest of the guys to find a way to contribute.

Nor should he. They're playing well, and he can throw them out there as much as possible. It's up to Soda, it's up to Iggy, it's up to Comeau, it's up to Grigo, it's even up to Everberg who hasn't looked as good this year as last, to find a way to contribute on the scoresheet. They're all very good hockey players, and they've had their moments, but as a whole they need to find a way to contribute more consistently.

Behind Nate, Landy, and now Dutchy with his hot streak, there just hasn't been enough secondary scoring. Iggy's been producing but he's been off the scoresheet for a bit, and if he's not scoring he's not really helping, and that affects their momentum, and if they're not up in games the other team is playing smart hockey, so that affects the Avs puck possession time.

I really feel a big part of them not having the possession numbers they'd like to have is more a result of them not leading games more often forcing the other team to play outside their system and press, or play on their heels. It's tied, or they're down, or they're only up one goal way too often. They need to find some killer instinct to take over games and get a two goal lead at some point more often.

That's where Roy's comments recently that stat junkies in the Toronto media are too dumb to understand makes a lot of sense to those that know that game. If you get timely scoring 5 on 5, or timely saves, or timely PP goals, it forces the opposition to play differently. That's where games are won, not this over emphasis on "systems." All team's and coaches are too smart these days for that to be a major distinction between the two.

It's not just as simple as looking at possession numbers, and thinking that's a reflection on a team's system, or how good they're capable of being. The distinction IMO is much more players decisions at clutch moments of games, or during the ebb and flow that happens every game to every team now. You have to make the right decisions and bear down when your team's on their toes and the opposition is on their heels, and likewise you have to play smart and bend but not break when you're on your heels.

That's always been a big part of hockey, but it's importance is tenfold now with the parity in the league, and how well every team studies each other, and plays system wise. There's really not that much difference between team, it's a matter of the small details that makes certain players winners, and certain players not.

 

[dahrougem2]

0Just watched the post game presser. Good on Roy for his end comments. He's been a bit critical of Varly, and then last game despite the good games from Berra, he made some comments about getting a big save, to show consistency in his critique.

Then after he's been critical of Duchene's slow start, he's giving Dutchy credit for playing well, and now is being critical of the secondary scoring which has been another big problem with this team this year. "No way" he says he'll break up the top line that's playing the best right now, it's up to the rest of the guys to find a way to contribute.

Nor should he. They're playing well, and he can throw them out there as much as possible. It's up to Soda, it's up to Iggy, it's up to Comeau, it's up to Grigo, it's even up to Everberg who hasn't looked as good this year as last, to find a way to contribute on the scoresheet. They're all very good hockey players, and they've had their moments, but as a whole they need to find a way to contribute more consistently.

Behind Nate, Landy, and now Dutchy with his hot streak, there just hasn't been enough secondary scoring. Iggy's been producing but he's been off the scoresheet for a bit, and if he's not scoring he's not really helping, and that affects their momentum, and if they're not up in games the other team is playing smart hockey, so that affects the Avs puck possession time.

I really feel a big part of them not having the possession numbers they'd like to have is more a result of them not leading games more often forciing the other team to play outside their system and press, or play on their heels. It's tied, or they're down, or they're only up one goal way too often. They need to find some killer instinct to take over games and get a two goal lead at some point more often.

That's where Roy's comments recently that stat junkies in the Torontp media are too dumb to understand makes a lot of sense to those that know that game. If you get timely scoring 5 on 5, or timely saves, or timely PP goals, it forces the opposition to play differently. That's where games are won, not this over ephasis on "systems." All team's and coaches are too smart these days for that to be a major distinction between the two. It's not just as simple as looking at possession numbers, and thinking that's a reflection on a team's system, or how good they're capable of being.

Agree on the secondary scoring part but disagree on the breakup of the line. I have a feeling that when Mitchell gets healthy he's going to be the 3C while Grigorenko jumps back up to LW on the 1st line, dropping Landeskog down to the 2nd line with Soderberg and Iginla, and bumping Comeau rightfully down to the 3rd line.

If Roy is going to keep the top line the way it is even when Mitchell returns, then we don't have the right to really gripe much about a lack of secondary scoring because let's face it, it's not going to happen much. Iginla needs to be the 3rd best player on his line these days, Grigorenko needs to play with offensive linemates in order to be at his best, Comeau is not a top-6 forward, and Soderberg needs finishers who can do a bit more than just shoot the puck i.e. cycle well, give and go well, etc. We don't have the luxury of secondary scoring right now because we're banged up and just don't have the right mix of talent for it to happen.

 

[Foppa2118]

Agree on the secondary scoring part but disagree on the breakup of the line. I have a feeling that when Mitchell gets healthy he's going to be the 3C while Grigorenko jumps back up to LW on the 1st line, dropping Landeskog down to the 2nd line with Soderberg and Iginla, and bumping Comeau rightfully down to the 3rd line.

If Roy is going to keep the top line the way it is even when Mitchell returns, then we don't have the right to really gripe much about a lack of secondary scoring because let's face it, it's not going to happen much. Iginla needs to be the 3rd best player on his line these days, Grigorenko needs to play with offensive linemates in order to be at his best, Comeau is not a top-6 forward, and Soderberg needs finishers who can do a bit more than just shoot the puck i.e. cycle well, give and go well, etc. We don't have the luxury of secondary scoring right now because we're banged up and just don't have the talent right mix of talent for it to happen.

I think Mitchell will help offensively a bit. I really feel Landy should stay on the top line though. I thought Grigo played pretty good the first game, but he fell off the last game against Toronto.

His place right now is on a 3rd line IMO. He needs to find a way to contribute with a two way game with 3rd pairing minutes. I really feel like that will be his make or break role in the league. I don't think he'll be able to battle against he tougher checking consistently in a top six role, and he's too talented to be a 4th liner. He needs to find that middle ground like Gratton did as someone with a lot of talent that didn't fit into a top six role, but could play well defensively. Whether that's on the wing or at center.

Comeau's not contributing offensively right now enough, and he really needs to be, but he does help the top six in ways that don't show up on the scoresheet. They need a guy besides Landy that will get in on the forecheck and win the battle to gain or keep possession.

Iggy only does so well in that area, he does't have the speed to get in there and win battles consistently enough. He only does so when he drives along the wall with the puck, but not when he has to chase it down and win a puck battle.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think Mitchell will help offensively a bit. I really feel Landy should stay on the top line though. I thought Grigo played pretty good the first game, but he fell off the last game against Toronto.

His place right now is on a 3rd line. He needs to find a way to contribute with a two way game with 3rd pairing minutes.

Comeau's not contributing offensively right now enough, and he really needs to be, but he does help the top six in ways that don't show up on the scoresheet. They need a guy besides Landy that will get in on the forecheck and win the battle to gain or keep possession.

Iggy only does so well in that area, he does't have the speed to get in there and win battles consistently enough. He only does so when he drives along the wall with the puck, but not when he has to chase it down and win a puck battle.

I thought Grigorenko played well vs Toronto, and I thought he showed very good chemistry with MacK and Dutchy in the Montreal game. I just think it'd diversify the offence a bit more if, when Mitchell comes back, we have Grigorenko on the top line and Landy with Soda. That way, not only is Grigorenko not forced to carry his line offensively (which at this stage, he shouldn't be asked to), but Landy gets to help Soda both offensively and defensively and Iggy can rightfully be the 3rd best player on that line as a finisher.

Comeau just really sucks right now. I wish Roy would send a message to him and scratch him vs Washington but we don't have a good enough bottom-6 to do that

 

[Foppa2118]

I thought Grigorenko played well vs Toronto, and I thought he showed very good chemistry with MacK and Dutchy in the Montreal game. I just think it'd diversify the offence a bit more if, when Mitchell comes back, we have Grigorenko on the top line and Landy with Soda. That way, not only is Grigorenko not forced to carry his line offensively (which at this stage, he shouldn't be asked to), but Landy gets to help Soda both offensively and defensively and Iggy can rightfully be the 3rd best player on that line as a finisher.

Comeau just really sucks right now. I wish Roy would send a message to him and scratch him vs Washington but we don't have a good enough bottom-6 to do that

I think the problem is that line is working right now, and it works the best with Landy on it. I also think Landy was a bit rusty tonight, and obviously he hasn't been 100% to start with. I think he'll be much more effective next game.

The last two years, the biggest downfall of this team hasn't been injuries, it hasn't been possession numbers or systems, it's been the top players not playing up to their potential. Right now their top players are playing up to their potential, and that along with Berra solidifying the net made it no coincidence they won three games in a row for the first time in a long time.

I really feel they have to live and die by that, that's why I think Roy was so emphatic in saying no way he breaks them up right now.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I had to look in the play by play and wasn't going crazy but the lines in the third were more like Martinsen-Grigo-Iginla and Comeau-Soderberg-Skille/McLeod.

 

[WarriorOfGandhi]

apparently all you have to do to make Duchene a good player is to put him with other good players. 9 goals in his last 8 games.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think the problem is that line is working right now, and it works the best with Landy on it. I also think Landy was a bit rusty tonight, and obviously he hasn't been 100% to start with. I think he'll be much more effective next game.

The last two years, the biggest downfall of this team hasn't been injuries, it hasn't been possession numbers or systems, it's been the top players not playing up to their potential. Right now their top players are playing up to their potential, and that along with Berra solidifying the net made it no coincidence they won three games in a row for the first time in a long time.

I really feel they have to live and die by that, that's why I think Roy was so emphatic in saying no way he breaks them up right now.

You just have to wonder what would do the team more good. The top line didn't seem to have a drop off at all when Grigorenko was put on LW in the Montreal game (nor in the Toronto game in my opinion), but having Landeskog on the 2nd line helping Soderberg out would only make our 2nd line more dangerous while not really worsening our top line if Grig's continues his stretch of solid play and turns it into consistent solid play.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Refs deserve two points in this one not the Pens. Textbook example of how to influence a game.

Avs have a hard fought 1-0 lead, and they call three crazy soft penalties in a row. First a debateable and delayed offsides by literally three seconds directly leads to a phantom high stick on Beauchemin off the draw that never touched the mans face, and eliminates the Avs PP. Ensuing faceoff and they get a lucky 4 on 4 goal off Peron's back, then a PP goal from a Malkin blast. Just like that 2-1.

Then they call a weak hook on MacKinnon where his stick slides up the mans stick and taps his hands and doesn't even phase him or cause him to lose possession. Then a weak cross check on Holden where he just shoves Crosby and he takes a dive with a 3-1 lead.

All that said, I think the Avs finished this game in a fashion where they can hold their head high. They never quit one bit. Even I basically quit when Holden once again forget how to play defense and gave up that back breaking, and what should have been an incredibly deflating 4-2 goal right after they pulled within one.

They were incredibly close to beating both the Pens and the Refs by tying it late, and then possibly winning it in OT where I would have bet a lot of money on Nate absolutely flying down the ice and scoring.

Duchene continues to stake out the front of the net and utilize his short stick the best way possible, and thats pulling loose pucks towards his body and flinging them up high from in close. Great job by him to continue having that killer instinct mentality and bury his chances rather than shooting them into pads.

EJ had an out of this world game in all three zone. Can't say enough about the game he played. Almost willed them to victory all by himself. He's become an impeccable leader for this team, and with te way he was battling Malkin out there defensively, and then skating up ice in transition and contributing offensively, he had shades of Pronger out there tonight.

Tough to lose again when they need wins, but overall they played another very good game for the most part. Hope they use this finish as a positive. They NEED to carry over a positive mentality right now to find more wins on this road trip, and they deserve it with the way they battled in this one.

This is rabid in the NHL across the board right now, see it almost every other night when watching Tampa Bay at home. I'm usually pissed off at the refs because they're extremely inconsistent from period to period (hell from one 5 minutes to the next) as to putting the whistles away or calling every single thing that even remotely looks like a penalty.

I wish they could ref like they do in the playoffs, ALL OF THE DAMN TIME. It's the same ****ing rules you jack *****.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You just have to wonder what would do the team more good. The top line didn't seem to have a drop off at all when Grigorenko was put on LW in the Montreal game (nor in the Toronto game in my opinion), but having Landeskog on the 2nd line helping Soderberg out would only make our 2nd line more dangerous while not really worsening our top line if Grig's continues his stretch of solid play and turns it into consistent solid play.

Theory : I wonder if Roy is insulating his core players and their confidence keeping them together? While it shouldn't be a ME thing, keeping our top players producing while evaluating the rest of the team has some merit for the future I'd guess.

I really cannot see MacK/Duchene staying together long term, but I could be wrong I guess. Grigs is currently rising to the top, and I think while it's subtle Soda has to some extent as well.

Comeau has done nothing with the extra time hes been given, and Iginla is what he is obviously.

With the line up the way it is, it's very easy to see the separation right now.

MacK/Duchene
Landeskog

Grigorenko
Soderberg
Iginla

Mitchell
Comeau

 

[UncleRisto]

apparently all you have to do to make Duchene a good player is to put him with other good players. 9 goals in his last 8 games.

Talented linemates affect anyone's game but the key appears to be having him play in a role where he doesn't have to skate with the puck like crazy and try to rip shots from far out a'la MacKinnon. It's where he is on the ice that affects his goal scoring. Of course you can't expect scrubs to do that stuff for him, so it's kind of true.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

apparently all you have to do to make Duchene a good player is to put him with other good players. 9 goals in his last 8 games.

To be honest, almost every player would put up points with MacK and Landeskog. Currently they are one of the best lines in NHL though.

 

[Kschey]

Talented linemates affect anyone's game but the key appears to be having him play in a role where he doesn't have to skate with the puck like crazy and try to rip shots from far out a'la MacKinnon. It's where he is on the ice that affects his goal scoring. Of course you can't expect scrubs to do that stuff for him, so it's kind of true.

Agreed. With MacK on the ice he's not forced to make plays and skate the puck up ice. Right now he's doing the simple things in an amazing way. Things almost nobody else on this team does. Screening the goalie, picking up rebounds right in front of the goal, crashing the net.
Finally, speed isn't his only useful skill. Love it when Duchene plays the way he does. Goals will keep coming.

I actually don't care if it's Landy or Grigs on the top line, both seem to be good fits. But as soon as Mitchell's back to center the third line, Grigs has to be in the top 6.

Landy/Grigs - MacK - Matty D
Landy/Grigs - Soda - Iggy

Comeau needs to be off the 2nd line. I like his skill set but he's not effective enough to be granted a top 6 spot.

One thing that bugged me yesterday once again was the PP formation or rather the choice of players on it. Johnson has been absolutely flying the last 2 games. Why wouldn't you put him on the first PP unit over Barrie or Iginla? His shot is better than Barrie's and right now he's way better at skating the puck up ice and finding entries into the zone.

To be honest, almost every player would put up points with MacK and Landeskog. Currently they are one of the best lines in NHL though.

Duchene contributes more to that than Landeskog does, though.

 

[Wintersun]

To be honest, almost every player would put up points with MacK and Landeskog. Currently they are one of the best lines in NHL though.

As far as I am concerned, I think Mack isn't playing as well as he was the first 10 games and Duchene has been by far the best player on that line. I certainly believe Grigorenko can be in Landeskog's spot without hurting that line. Duchene and Mack will find a way anyway. But having Landeskog on the second line gives us a top 6 instead of being a one line team.

Comeau - Soderberg - Iginla

Is more of a 3rd line to me..

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

Yeah my comment probably sounds like I'm underestimating Duchene, but I meant we should probably put Duchene with someone else and hope we get more secondary scoring. This seems to work now but our third line is just terrible offensively. We cant expect any production from 3-4th line as long as Mitchell and Tanguay are gone.

I think Duchene with Grigorenko could work full time. Soderberg also had good chemistry with Duchene . Put Comeau or Iginla with Landy/MacK.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Comeau - Soderberg - Iginla

Is more of a 3rd line to me..

How many teams have 30 goal scorers and ~50 point centermen on their 3rd line? Nevermind that it would be the most expensive 3rd line ever assembled in our history. That's over $12.5m annually on our 3rd line. Not going to happen. Soda/Iggy are 2nd liners on this Avalanche team.

 

[ArWKo]

It's been said - and I'm not one to blame refs often, but man they really blew it and changed this game so much with that completely made up call on Beauchemin. It just completely swung the momentum of the game.

Not that the Avs didn't have a chance to still pull it out, but when you have to beat a hot goalie AND overcome a call by the refs that really changed the make up of the game, it's a lot to ask.

Aside from the awful calling of penalties, the refs just seemed to be in the way a lot last night. I can't remember the last game I remember seeing them get in the way of so many puck/players with just plain bad positioning.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's a close one as far as who played it worse, and Barrie was caught flat footed for just a split second, but Holden being the man furthest into the zone should probably take the man driving to the net and angle him away, while Barrie can step in and either deflect the shot away or play the body, and Barrie's likely going to be caught on the wrong side of Crosby either way.

Instead Holden drops to his knees to block the shot, and lets a pass from the high slot go to the low slot to the best player in the league. Making himself basically useless on the play.

Even if Holden as the guy deeper in his zone decides to take the man higher in the slot, he needs to block that pass. He didn't.

I also give Barrie a slight pass because I don't think he was skating nearly as well as he usually does after the linesman stepped on his foot. He was having troubles turning from skating backward to forward, and moving laterally. Another stupid play by a zebra. Selfishly concerned with falling back into the bench as he's bumped while sitting on the boards, so he puts all his weight forward, and steps on the back of Barrie's foot. Almost lacerated his achilles.

All 4 players were relatively even with each other. That was a classic you take the guy on your side, I got the guy on my side situation. All Barrie had to do was stay in front Crosby and deny the pass to Him. It would make no sense for Barrie and Holden to criss cross with each other.

You can't expect Holden to stop the pass when his priority is stopping the shot. He only has 1 stick and can't be taking away both the pass and shot. Barrie should have been denying the pass, and knowing that, Holden did the right thing by focusing on the shot.

That was an absolutely pathetic play by Barrie. Just awful.

 

[Avs71]

That Malkin-EJ battle was sweet. It's good seeing EJ coming back to life out there.

 

[the_fan]

I'm getting tired of posting here after every loss, but I'm getting use to this team losing and getting tired of all the excuses after every loss.

Toronto has more points than the Avs at this point enough said. It's amazing what a good coach can do. This team will not go anywhere and will always lose unless they get a good coach.