Post-Game Talk: Avalanche @ Lightning 1/25/2014 7PM EST: Battle of Young Sami VS. Old Sami.

[calvin0416*]

I know that due to the POSITION of our players, MacKinnon was put on the 3rd line getting 3rd line minutes, but I've said for the whole year he needs to get more ice-time than just 14 to 16 minutes a night.

Tonight was a perfect example of how TB uses their rookies really well. Tyler Johnson and Ondrej Palat are getting around 18 minutes per night, used on the powerplay even being up 5-2. He's playing well and getting lots of chances.

I feel that MacKinnon is playing just well or even better but when he's playing on the bottom 6, he doesn't get the same chance to shine like guys from other teams: Johnson/Palat (TB), Schleifle (WIN), Kreider (NYR), and even Nichushkin (DAL) being on a line often with Seguin and Benn.

It's nice to see guys like PAP, Tanguay and Mitchell all returning to the lineup, but to bump Mackinnon down in favor of Mitchell and Tanguay seems ridiculous to me. If anything, MacKinnon should be on the 2nd or top line, but as I said, I know the main issue is POSITION. Roy wants (and MacKinnon probably wants too) to play centre but with Duchene and Stastny bottling up centre, there seems no choice but to put him on 3rd line unless they use him as a winger or force Duchene to go on wing.

In any case, it's nice to see them roll the lines and have 3 great scoring lines, but I've always believed that you have to give your best players the MOST ICE TIME. It doesn't make sense to only have 17 minutes for Duchene or 16 minutes for MacKinnon. If you look at all the great teams in the NHL, their star players are ALWAYS given the most ice-time. Crosby, Getzlaf, Toews, Ovechkin, Kane, and 50 other top 50 players. Your best players need to have 18+ minutes per night MINIMUM so that they have the most opportunity to shoot pucks on net, build scoring chances, and give your team the BEST CHANCE to win games. It's a nice idea to roll 3 or 4 lines evenly where everyone gets 14 to 17 minutes a night evenly spread out and maybe they stay fresher that way....but I don't believe that it's good for you. STAR PLAYERS are WORKHORSES. This means that the more ice-time they get, the better they perform. Guys like Duchene/O'Reilly/Landeskog/MacKinnon/Stastny somehow need more ice-time.....

I say Roy needs to somehow put MacKinnon on at least the 2nd line, and make lines 1 and 2 ice-time heavy. Line 3 should be used as a checking line, and Line 4 should be used sparingly as an energy line/enforcer line.

Line 1 and 2 MUST BE ICE-TIME HEAVY for pete's sake. 18 minutes per night MINIMUM. None of this 16:42 or 17:35 TOI per game for the top 6. The Avs just aren't scoring that much. Defensively they have been pretty good (with the exception of a few blow out games like tonight), but offense needs to get jump started with a new change on ice-time.

 

[CB Joe]

Almost all the goals originated from point shots. I've been saying this for a month now, but the Avs have to start protecting the point. None of this collapsing in the slot all the time.

 

[freeboy]

We needed to score on PP
We didn't get some bounces, and a few either way changes the game dramatically. I'm not sure we didn't outplay bolts... What a funny name. Well hats off to them and their rookie scorer. On to Dallas.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I know that due to the POSITION of our players, MacKinnon was put on the 3rd line getting 3rd line minutes, but I've said for the whole year he needs to get more ice-time than just 14 to 16 minutes a night.

I say Roy needs to somehow put MacKinnon on at least the 2nd line, and make lines 1 and 2 ice-time heavy. Line 3 should be used as a checking line, and Line 4 should be used sparingly as an energy line/enforcer line.

MacK had one less shift than Duchene, his icetime was quite high.

We're a better team when we spread the lines out and have 3 scoring lines.

The problem was squarely on the defense tonight getting beat like a dead horse. I couldn't at least half a dozen mind-numbingly poor passes by the defense that left me wondering why they thought that was a good play.

Of course, if the offense had scored on any of their good plays that would have helped. The entire team has been fighting the puck offensively lately, simple plays go in and tic tac toe passing fails.

 

[Avs_19]

It's a shame that MCL healed so quickly.......

 

[S E P H]

I say Roy needs to somehow put MacKinnon on at least the 2nd line, and make lines 1 and 2 ice-time heavy. Line 3 should be used as a checking line, and Line 4 should be used sparingly as an energy line/enforcer line.

Line 1 and 2 MUST BE ICE-TIME HEAVY for pete's sake. 18 minutes per night MINIMUM. None of this 16:42 or 17:35 TOI per game for the top 6. The Avs just aren't scoring that much. Defensively they have been pretty good (with the exception of a few blow out games like tonight), but offense needs to get jump started with a new change on ice-time.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, if you have 3 scoring lines, use them as 3 scoring lines. Our offensive depth is a gift from God not a virus like other traditional clubs. Penguins are sure suffering from having too much offensive talent as well, aren't they?!

 

[calvin0416*]

MacK had one less shift than Duchene, his icetime was quite high.

We're a better team when we spread the lines out and have 3 scoring lines.

The problem was squarely on the defense tonight getting beat like a dead horse. I couldn't at least half a dozen mind-numbingly poor passes by the defense that left me wondering why they thought that was a good play.

Of course, if the offense had scored on any of their good plays that would have helped. The entire team has been fighting the puck offensively lately, simple plays go in and tic tac toe passing fails.

That's my point! Duchene only 16:49!!!! MacKinnon only 16:09!!!! This amount of ice-time is ridiculous!! Duthcy should be getting at least 18-20 minutes per night...and Mac should get 18 minutes minimum like Tyler Johnson gets on TB. MacKinnon was a +1 on a night they lost 5-2. Mac needs more ice-time. They need to juggle the lines again and/or trade some people because the Avs have too many players of the same position.

 

[CB Joe]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, if you have 3 scoring lines, use them as 3 scoring lines. Our offensive depth is a gift from God not a virus like other traditional clubs. Penguins are sure suffering from having too much offensive talent as well, aren't they?!

I would like to see the offensive depth traded for defense. I'm fine with a traditional top 6/bottom 6. It would mean the best forwards would get the most ice time and it would mean a competent defense.

 

[JWK]

That's my point! Duchene only 16:49!!!! MacKinnon only 16:09!!!! This amount of ice-time is ridiculous!! MacKinnon was a +1 on a night they lost 5-2. Mac needs more ice-time. They need to juggle the lines again and/or trade some people because the Avs have too many players of the same position.

It's the 2nd night of a back to back, they were probably tired.

 

[Freudian]

Avs had good energy for the second game of a back to back. They forechecked and tried to counter attack hard though the game.

Avs looked better than I would have guessed. They played well enough to get a point today. Hard to be upset when they give an effort like this.

Will be good to get Tanguay back. Mitchell doesn't gel with Stastny and Landeskog.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

That's my point! Duchene only 16:49!!!! MacKinnon only 16:09!!!! This amount of ice-time is ridiculous!! Duthcy should be getting at least 18-20 minutes per night...and Mac should get 18 minutes minimum like Tyler Johnson gets on TB. MacKinnon was a +1 on a night they lost 5-2. Mac needs more ice-time. They need to juggle the lines again and/or trade some people because the Avs have too many players of the same position.

...it's the second half of a back to back, you don't take icetime from Stastny (led the forwards) and the 4th line only had 7 or 8 minutes in total.

The icetime was the way it was supposed to be.

The only difference I might have made had the game been closer at the end is to stack the top 2 lines.

It is what it is, move on.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Avs looked sloppy all game long while Lightning did an insane job on the forecheck, gave our untalented defensive core all they could handle.

I would easily take peg leg Wilson over Holden, omfg Holden is on Zanon's level defensively. Guenin looked decent.

Duchene's line was pretty damn poor all game long.

Johnson, MacKnnon, and Barrie were great.

None of Roy's decisions has made me angry or question at all, but him pulling Aittokallio was completely piss poor decision. Just destroyed the kids confidence.

I just have a hard time saying Barrie was great when he was out there for three goals against and is a mess defensively. Offensively, he was indeed great and created stuff, but he's a disaster in his own end right now.

Benoit has really hit a wall the last 25 games or so.

 

[calvin0416*]

This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, if you have 3 scoring lines, use them as 3 scoring lines. Our offensive depth is a gift from God not a virus like other traditional clubs. Penguins are sure suffering from having too much offensive talent as well, aren't they?!

Really? So if you had a Crosby and Malkin on your team, you wouldn't make lines 1 andf 2 ice time heavy? You'd give your 3rd liners as much ice time as your 1st line?

You'd give Crosby 16:50 TOI per game and Malkin 16:00? You must be nuts. I didn't say you can't have 3 scoring lines. I said the best players should get the most ice time. That means top 2 lines should be ice-time heavy rather than spreading it out so evenly so that nobody has a great chance to get hot.

Be good at everything but a master of nothing? Nice philosophy. CHI/BOS/CHI/LA all masters with their best lines....they're top lines and best players get used more. The Avs are the only team I know who don't do this. They give Dutchy and Mack as much as ice time as guys like Jon Mitchell! BTW, as a Leafs fan, Mitchell was in Toronto and so I've seen him for years in our system. He was always an OK player, nothing great or special....that's why we got rid of him. To see him getting used more and bumped higher in the lineup than MacKinnon is a joke.

 

[S E P H]

I would like to see the offensive depth traded for defense. I'm fine with a traditional top 6/bottom 6. It would mean the best forwards would get the most ice time and it would mean a competent defense.

Absolutely you trade for need from strength, but as long as we do not trade we gotta use our offensive depth as much as possible.

 

[TheDaysOf 04]

Hey Avs fans, hey Frenchy. Good game guys. I'm looking forward to the next time we met again after the break. There's a lot of connections between the 2 teams besides our rookie coaches doing really well, and our rookie players going #1 and #2 atm to the Calder that I find interesting. Barrie is the son of our former owner, Kucherov was a player under Roy, of course Yzerman and Sakic go back, and soon to be a nice matchup of Drouin vs Mackinnon in the future. Good luck til we see you guys again.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

I just have a hard time saying Barrie was great when he was out there for three goals against and is a mess defensively. Offensively, he was indeed great and created stuff, but he's a disaster in his own end right now.

Benoit has really hit a wall the last 25 games or so.

The problem is you can't expect Barrie to be the guy to win the crease battles. He's just not strong enough. You can't expect Boyle, Karlsson, etc to win those battles either. They all play with defensive sound partners that do the heavy lifting for them and they use good boards play and stickwork for their advantage.

I was watching Barrie-Holden closely most of the night and it wasn't even funny how often Holden put Barrie in a poor position defensively. There was a situation where Holden passed it back behind the net with no pressure at all and Barrie had 2 guys on him.

He needs his Hejda, it's not a bad thing either. Some guys are what they are. Defensively he knows where to be, he's active with his stick and constantly getting into lanes. But he can't win the physical battle.

 

[calvin0416*]

Here's some more proof for you doubters about my philosophy:

TB: top players
St. Louis TOI 22:12
Tyler Johnson 21:32
Palat: 18:15

combined +9, 5 points

Avs: top players
Duchene: 16:47
Stastny: 17:43
MacKinnon: 16:09

combined 1 point

TB used their best players and top lines 20+ minutes. That's why they scored 3 goals and were HOT. Avs were way too cold and underused because you just wanted to make sure everyone got an even amount of ice-time? C'mon...

 

[hockeyfish]

Hey Avs fans, hey Frenchy. Good game guys. I'm looking forward to the next time we met again after the break. There's a lot of connections between the 2 teams besides our rookie coaches doing really well, and our rookie players going #1 and #2 atm to the Calder that I find interesting. Barrie is the son of our former owner, Kucherov was a player under Roy, of course Yzerman and Sakic being our GMs go back, and soon to be a nice matchup of Drouin vs Mackinnon in the future. Good luck til we see you guys again.

Thanks, we will see you in June.

 

[CB Joe]

Absolutely you trade for need from strength, but as long as we do not trade we gotta use our offensive depth as much as possible.

I'm torn on that. Is playing grinder - MacKinnon - grinder against a bottom pair defense really better than giving O'Reilly - Duchene - MacKinnon more ice time.

 

[Frenchy]

Hey Avs fans, hey Frenchy. Good game guys. I'm looking forward to the next time we met again after the break. There's a lot of connections between the 2 teams besides our rookie coaches doing really well, and our rookie players going #1 and #2 atm to the Calder that I find interesting. Barrie is the son of our former owner, Kucherov was a player under Roy, of course Yzerman and Sakic being our GMs go back, and soon to be a nice matchup of Drouin vs Mackinnon in the future. Good luck til we see you guys again.

Thanks my friend , you guys played a great game , Congratulation again on the Victory

 

[S E P H]

I just have a hard time saying Barrie was great when he was out there for three goals against and is a mess defensively. Offensively, he was indeed great and created stuff, but he's a disaster in his own end right now.

Benoit has really hit a wall the last 25 games or so.

The answer is Holden, that is another very questionable decision of Roy to put them together. I agree that Barrie was not good defensively today especially on that 3rd goal, but he is always going to jump into the play and focus on pick moving and creating chances. Holden as his defensive partner should understand this and plan accordingly; Hejda and Johnson are a great pairing is because they understand when the other one needs to stay back.

 

[calvin0416*]

One more stat:

IF matt duchene is considered our best player right now,
he's 38th in NHL scoring (pretty good considering he missed a few games).

BUT
his ice-time among all NHL forwards is 89th!!! That means that our best player is not even getting more ice-time than EVERY NHL TEAM's 3rd best player! Duchene should be at least in the 30ish range as our top player.

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

One more stat:

IF matt duchene is considered our best player right now,
he's 38th in NHL scoring (pretty good considering he missed a few games).

BUT
his ice-time among all NHL forwards is 89th!!! That means that our best player is not even getting more ice-time than EVERY NHL TEAM's 3rd best player! Duchene should be at least in the 30ish range as our top player.

Our team is one of the deepest in NHL, there's no reason to play Duchene more, because we have 3 very good lines.

 

[S E P H]

I'm torn on that. Is playing grinder - MacKinnon - grinder against a bottom pair defense really better than giving O'Reilly - Duchene - MacKinnon more ice time.

MacKinnon NEEDS to be at centre, that is what his franchise position needs to be IMO.

I wouldn't say Parenteau is a grinder though, he is a solid 2nd line playmaker who did have a terrible game tonight.

 

[calvin0416*]

I love Roy and what he's done for the Avs this year, but I guess after seeing Johnson get a hat trick tonight and playing 22 minutes, it just made me so pissed that the Avs don't use their top players and rookie like this too. Coach Cooper is doing a great job letting his best players fly and have the ice-time to get hot and confident. It just made me so jealous and angry that the Avs don't do that same!

Also, some of you think that having 3 scoring lines is a good thing. It's not. You know why? Because again, there's not enough ice-time to spread around. A team needs to be built with "parts". You can't have a great car with 3 engines but no tires. If we have 3 scoring lines, that means we have some good assets to trade away to get back some good rubber or chasis for our car. Once again, teams like Bos/Pit/Chi/La don't have 3 top scoring lines. They have 2, and then an amazing checking line/shut down line, and energy line.....it's about PARTS and ROLE PLAYERS. You can't just have an allstar team of 3 or 4 scoring lines and think that's a good thing to have....you need to have your grinders, checkers, shutdown men, energy players, enforcers etc......and then let the top 6 scorers on the top lines get more ice-time to do what they are supposed to do, score. You can't score if you're only playing 16 to 17 minutes a night as a top line.