GDT: Avalanche @ Flames, Nov 19 7:00 MT, SNET1

[InfinityIggy]

Man, Lucic has been an absolute beast in the past 5 games and I don't care if someone wants to disagree with me on that. I've seen much better cycling, hitting, and 2-way play from him than Neal ever did.

He has been great as his role all season as far as I am concerned.

 

[Kranix]

He has been great as his role all season as far as I am concerned.

I agree. He will always be looked down upon for that salary, though.

 

[DCDM]

I agree. He will always be looked down upon for that salary, though.

That and anyone who doesn't actually watch him will just remember "Neal for Lucic" and not give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[InfinityIggy]

That and anyone who doesn't actually watch him will just remember "Neal for Lucic" and not give him the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, both things can be true at the same time though.

 

[Kranix]

That and anyone who doesn't actually watch him will just remember "Neal for Lucic" and not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Well, you can't really. The offensive stats don't lie. It doesn't matter though.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Well, you can't really. The offensive stats don't lie. It doesn't matter though.

Exactly.

Clearly the stats show Lucic is more of a team player than Neal.

 

[JPeeper]

Because that's the Bill Peters hapless system, safe (not actually) boring dump and chase comatose hockey. Team gets down a few and here we go firewagon hockey that's when the team starts to click. But Peters being an absolute cement headed fool doesn't realize , hey wait a second maybe we should play an uptempo game.

This is the hockey Canes fans warned us about they were right.

I don't get this Peters hate. Last year we played an uptempo fast game which is what Peters emphasized and we finished 2nd in the league because of it, the top line was able to crush opponents on the scoresheet. Look at the effort this year from our roster, we get out worked almost every night and it's near impossible to play a fast uptempo game when the other team is always out working you. They'll just clog the neutral zone, they'll strip you of the puck, they'll cover you which all leads to not being able to play with speed so the inevitable slow down and dump ins begin.

 

[Kranix]

Exactly.

Clearly the stats show Lucic is more of a team player than Neal.

That's right

 

[Fig]

I don't get this Peters hate. Last year we played an uptempo fast game which is what Peters emphasized and we finished 2nd in the league because of it, the top line was able to crush opponents on the scoresheet. Look at the effort this year from our roster, we get out worked almost every night and it's near impossible to play a fast uptempo game when the other team is always out working you. They'll just clog the neutral zone, they'll strip you of the puck, they'll cover you which all leads to not being able to play with speed so the inevitable slow down and dump ins begin.

I think no playbook contributed to this. I think there's a playbook on us now and we're struggling to figure out how to counter the counter. It might take some time until we can develop a playbook against these counters (probably needs a deeper pool of games played to analyze), but if Peters can't do it by TDL, then at that time I'll join the, "We have a problem" crowd. For now, I'll sit back and try to let the team work things out.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think no playbook contributed to this. I think there's a playbook on us now and we're struggling to figure out how to counter the counter. It might take some time until we can develop a playbook against these counters (probably needs a deeper pool of games played to analyze), but if Peters can't do it by TDL, then at that time I'll join the, "We have a problem" crowd. For now, I'll sit back and try to let the team work things out.

I was about to say the same thing. Anyone remember what happened under Hartley in his second season? Peters is a very smart hockey mind and we will adjust, but I standby that our biggest problem is our players and their will to do what it takes to win. Things are not coming easy this year and guys need to step it the F up, like we failed to do in the playoffs.

 

[Mobiandi]

Here's the kicker. If Peters is such a terrible coach, why are all of our best players this season ex-Canes? Deep down there's something incredibly off with this core when it comes to their give-a-shit level. I'd go so far to say that even Gio isn't off the hook, at least when it comes to holding others accountable. Iggy and Regehr would've nipped this in the bud quite fast.

 

[Iggys Dome]

Here's the kicker. If Peters is such a terrible coach, why are all of our best players this season ex-Canes? Deep down there's something incredibly off with this core when it comes to their give-a-**** level. I'd go so far to say that even Gio isn't off the hook, at least when it comes to holding others accountable. Iggy and Regehr would've nipped this in the bud quite fast.

Backlund too. He, Gio and Brodie are guys I’m wary of right now. Obviously Brodie is different rn, but those two should step the f*** up in the locker room and shoulder some of the blame for how this core has performed under pressure since Hartleys removal. They’re our longest tenured players and IMO it starts with them showing some leadership.

 

[Janks]

Backlund too. He, Gio and Brodie are guys I’m wary of right now. Obviously Brodie is different rn, but those two should step the **** up in the locker room and shoulder some of the blame for how this core has performed under pressure since Hartleys removal. They’re our longest tenured players and IMO it starts with them showing some leadership.

I’d argue that the difference is that they try to lead by example. Iginla was both a leader in voice, and by example. I don’t see Backs as that type of player to call his team out (like Tkachuk does). Obviously I’m not in the locker room, but I’m not sure if Gio is that type either. Last year, I think Smith played that role - and I’m not sure it was filled when he left.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I’d argue that the difference is that they try to lead by example. Iginla was both a leader in voice, and by example. I don’t see Backs as that type of player to call his team out (like Tkachuk does). Obviously I’m not in the locker room, but I’m not sure if Gio is that type either. Last year, I think Smith played that role - and I’m not sure it was filled when he left.

Gio doesn't hesitate to speak up from what I've heard in interviews. Whether or not he's calling individuals out I don't know.

 

[Janks]

Gio doesn't hesitate to speak up from what I've heard in interviews. Whether or not he's calling individuals out I don't know.

That's what I'm mostly getting at - I can definitely see Tkachuk telling guys in the room they need to step it up. Gio I'm not so sure. Regardless - we need more guys calling each other out and playing for each other. We don't seem to be playing as a team anymore and supporting the system.

 

[Fig]

I was about to say the same thing. Anyone remember what happened under Hartley in his second season? Peters is a very smart hockey mind and we will adjust, but I standby that our biggest problem is our players and their will to do what it takes to win. Things are not coming easy this year and guys need to step it the F up, like we failed to do in the playoffs.

Yep. A similar crater happened. However, I believe Hartley would have survived another year had he not made certain comments to the media on garbage bag day which hinted that he had no intention of developing a counter to the counter playbook. He was content in sticking with the status quo. IIRC soon after those comments Treliving flew back from Europe or something for an emergency meeting and within a few days Hartley was fired.

Here's the kicker. If Peters is such a terrible coach, why are all of our best players this season ex-Canes? Deep down there's something incredibly off with this core when it comes to their give-a-**** level. I'd go so far to say that even Gio isn't off the hook, at least when it comes to holding others accountable. Iggy and Regehr would've nipped this in the bud quite fast.

Maybe because they know how Peters wanted to evolve his system? I think it's no coincidence that the ex-Canes were the ones who didn't stumble as badly out of the block beginning of last season.

That's what I'm mostly getting at - I can definitely see Tkachuk telling guys in the room they need to step it up. Gio I'm not so sure. Regardless - we need more guys calling each other out and playing for each other. We don't seem to be playing as a team anymore and supporting the system.

Maybe it's possible we're all incorrect.

It's possible a ton of them are all vocal, but also very harsh on themselves. Then everyone is trying to step it up and it blows up in their face which blows up for the whole team. If the entire team is holding the stick too tightly, it could explain why everything looks like a mess and why everyone is slow if they're over analyzing their options. It could be a pure irony situation where every gives too many Fs and those Fs ends up F~ing things up more and more. In another irony situation where many fans think the team is too relaxed and needs to focus, it's possible the team actually needs to relax to loosen up instead.

Who knows.