GDT: Avalanche @ Capitals - 10/12/13 7 PM - Neuvy vs Varly

[Calicaps]

Well, McPhee could have negotiated in bad faith and offered him the starting job (without really meaning it) and given in to his salary demands. But McPhee took a stand and refused to hand out a $2.8 million contract to a potential backup. Because that's just crazy.

What I was trying to say, but done much better.

 

[Liberati0n*]

Well, McPhee could have negotiated in bad faith and offered him the starting job (without really meaning it) and given in to his salary demands. But McPhee took a stand and refused to hand out a $2.8 million contract to a potential backup. Because that's just crazy.

I'm as opposed to Neuvirth's contract as anyone. You're basically right: That was the stupid move. Trading Varlamov for the return he got (what that return returned isn't relevant at all to this specific issue) was a good move. People complain here, rightly, all the time about the culture of the organization and how accepted mediocrity is, along with the "country club" locker room atmosphere. Reacting to Varlamov's public unjustified demands by giving him what he wants (even if it's in bad faith) would just continue that.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I was always a Varly guy, but I have no problem with how McPhee handled that situation. What he's done with the acquired assets, however...

 

[Calicaps]

I was always a Varly guy, but I have no problem with how McPhee handled that situation. What he's done with the acquired assets, however...

I was ok with it at the time and as I said, like you, I would still be if we still had FF or got good return for him. BUT in retrospect, I think this trade is a perfect example of GMGM's almost random decision making.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I was ok with it at the time and as I said, like you, I would still be if we still had FF or got good return for him. BUT in retrospect, I think this trade is a perfect example of GMGM's almost random decision making.

You can't consider the use of the picks in judging the trade itself. (McPhee's job performance as a whole, yeah.) You could in theory argue that it was a stupid trade if the team couldn't be trusted to make good choices with the picks and should have known that at the time, but you can't because that wasn't true of the team at the time. On the other side, you can't consider that they got Forsberg with the pick, either.
The value returned was a first (and he arguably deserves credit for it being pick #11) and a second; what was done with those picks doesn't matter in judging this specific issue.

 

[Calicaps]

You can't consider the use of the picks in judging the trade itself. (McPhee's job performance as a whole, yeah.) You could in theory argue that it was a stupid trade if the team couldn't be trusted to make good choices with the picks and should have known that at the time, but you can't because that wasn't true of the team at the time. On the other side, you can't consider that they got Forsberg with the pick, either.
The value returned was a first (and he arguably deserves credit for it being pick #11) and a second; what was done with those picks doesn't matter in judging this specific issue.

I agree. He got good value for Varly. My point was about the decision to trade vs. sign. I don't see any logic to these choices. He won't give Varly who's obviously uniquely athletic, $2.8M but then makes the exact opposite decision for Neuvy who is clearly less naturally gifted.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I agree. He got good value for Varly. My point was about the decision to trade vs. sign. I don't see any logic to these choices. He won't give Varly who's obviously uniquely athletic, $2.8M but then makes the exact opposite decision for Neuvy who is clearly less naturally gifted.

(My point is that you can't be okay with it when the return turns into Forsberg and not be okay with it when it turns into 4thlineErat and Latta. It doesn't retroactively change what the decision was at the time.)

We don't know what would have happened if that return for Varlamov hadn't been offered. There may not be/have been a market for Neuvirth at all. Neuvirth also didn't make his demands public. But yeah, I generally agree. The Neuvirth contract is really bad and probably totally unjustifiable, and there is some inconsistency to his decisions in general that's troubling.

 

[Calicaps]

(My point is that you can't be okay with it when the return turns into Forsberg and not be okay with it when it turns into 4thlineErat and Latta. It doesn't retroactively change what the decision was at the time.)

We don't know what would have happened if that return for Varlamov hadn't been offered. There may not be/have been a market for Neuvirth at all. Neuvirth also didn't make his demands public. But yeah, I generally agree. The Neuvirth contract is really bad and probably totally unjustifiable, and there is some inconsistency to his decisions in general that's troubling.

I got that, and you're right.

 

[Halpysback*]

Yeah that .903 save percentage last year really turned some heads.

They had a worse defense last year than us during the Doug-Kiwi era...

 

[Halpysback*]

I'm as opposed to Neuvirth's contract as anyone. You're basically right: That was the stupid move. Trading Varlamov for the return he got (what that return returned isn't relevant at all to this specific issue) was a good move. People complain here, rightly, all the time about the culture of the organization and how accepted mediocrity is, along with the "country club" locker room atmosphere. Reacting to Varlamov's public unjustified demands by giving him what he wants (even if it's in bad faith) would just continue that.

There is a clear difference between players like Varlamov and players like Neuvirth, Laich, Schultz, Brouwer in terms of talent and hockey playing ability. I'd much rather he overpay the former than the latter. I'm not big on goalies in general but it's stupid as hell to lose franchise potential (and he is very much a likely potential franchise goalie) over a second contract negotiation where the guy's demands aren't that unreasonable. 2.8 million. Precedent my ass. You want to nuke the country club atmosphere you waive Jeff Schultz and prove that the caps aren't a welfare organization.