Auston Matthews Vs Jack Eichel Better player in the Future/Highest ceiling?

[Panthaz89]

I’d take that time in the leafs a high scoring team rather then with a dead last team majority of the time with girgensens, Rodrigues and pominville any day if I’m a guy looking to up my points





Eichel played a ton with O’Reilly he was never once on his line? Some power play time and usually not much since they are the one and two centres or we’re in units is tons. Please.

I really don't like saying playing with Rodriguez is a hindrance when Rod-Eichel-Reinhart was our best line and had the best chemistry by far. Imo Rodriguez is going to show a lot more this year. Housley should of never seperated them when they had that lineup set during their Western Canada run(I believe it was).

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Matthews has never once destroyed Eichel, jack Eichel has more points per game then Matthews since he entered the league 0.94 to 0.88.

In 16-17 Eichels PPG was 0.94 and Matthews 0.84

This year it was close too 1.01 to 0.95

But yeah man Matthews has destroyed eichel.

Oh and this was about going forward

This is correct. Matthews has never destroyed Eichel at any level both were part of the same season. What bothers me is this same stage argument, where it is impossible to compare both players since competition and teammates differ. I have asked 3 times already, Bracco and Tkachuk also outscored Eichel the year after. Does this strengthen or weaken this destroying at every level argument? It's just a disingenuous discussion. When the head to head stats are more readily available to compare.

 

[Rob Brown]

This is correct. Matthews has never destroyed Eichel at any level both were part of the same season. What bothers me is this same stage argument, where it is impossible to compare both players since competition and teammates differ. I have asked 3 times already, Bracco and Tkachuk also outscored Eichel the year after. Does this strengthen or weaken this destroying at every level argument? It's just a disingenuous discussion. When the head to head stats are more readily available to compare.

It makes a lot more sense to compare Eichel's first two NHL seasons to Matthews' first NHL two seasons. That is a more accurate head-to-head approach. Why compare Eichel's sophomore season to Matthew's rookie season? How is that more accurate?

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

This is correct. Matthews has never destroyed Eichel at any level both were part of the same season. What bothers me is this same stage argument, where it is impossible to compare both players since competition and teammates differ. I have asked 3 times already, Bracco and Tkachuk also outscored Eichel the year after. Does this strengthen or weaken this destroying at every level argument? It's just a disingenuous discussion. When the head to head stats are more readily available to compare.

People aren't addressing it because what's the point, you've arbitrarily ruled that only data you approve of matters for reasons. There isn't a point having a discussion until you stop discounting everything Matthews did when he was the same age.

 

[IPS]

It makes a lot more sense to compare Eichel's first two NHL seasons to Matthews' first NHL two seasons. That is a more accurate head-to-head approach. Why compare Eichel's sophomore season to Matthew's rookie season? How is that more accurate?

It's not. In fact it's wildly inaccurate. They're bending over backwards to try to ignore Eichel's rookie season because it deals a huge blow to their narrrative.

And when you consider how emerging superstars have historically produced very well in their 3rd season and Matthews' is coming up, it's going to start looking much, much worse for Eichel.

 

[IPS]

It's just so hilarious how these Eichel arguments get so convoluted.

Eichel's rookie season needs to be ignored because reasons!

Matthews' clearly less offensive minutes (like 3+ minutes of PP time) needs to be ignored because reasons!

Eichel's sophomore season needs to be compared to Matthews' rookie season because reasons!

Eichel's 3rd year needs to be compared to Matthews 2nd year because reasons!

Matthews being on a better team works against him (despite position in the standings having pretty much no correlation to individual production of individual players) because reasons!


God they're such awful arguments

 

[LilySmoov]

@The Winter Soldier once again demonstrating what an embarrassment he is. When it's Matthews vs. Eichel, the age and timeline difference is completely dismissed.

But when it's Matthews vs. Laine, we get quotes like this:

What I look for is production, projection, ceiling and peak.

Laine already holds the edge on Matthews statistically, and is a year younger or more precisely 7 months the length of one season.

...

But for a player to player comparison. It is close now. In the future I suspect Laine will separate himself from Matthews and will be known as the better player.

I'm sure there's more of that as well. Scrolled through about 5 pages of a single thread before I found that.

 

[AmericanDream]

I am not getting into this fight, they both are favs of mine and great players, but Matthews played with Tkachuk and Roslovic as well as Keller at the end of the year...Eichel had Milano and Tuch with Larkin on the 2nd line...pretty significant difference there for me that Matthews has benefited with playing with a much higher end group. Those of us who follow USA Hockey have said this for a while, the 1997 birth year is one of the best all-time for the US, the 1996 birth year was average at best outside of Eichel and Schmaltz.

Using stat lines from different years and different teammates seems pretty odd to me since there are so many variables here. Matthews played with better talent, no doubts or questions about it. Eichel was a year older when they played together so that has to be considered as well. But if you are going to try and win this argument using stats that Matthews put up vs Eichel at the USNDP, I think you are setting yourself up for failure, especially for those who have followed these kids and these teams as close as some of us have.

 

[These Are The Days]

Serious question.... do people actually watch Eichel? If they did they'd realize he's a top 5 talent in the world trapped on a shit team that can barely manage 200 goals a season even with him. For 3 years when Eichel's passed the puck the play has died because Kane was basically the one decent linemate there was for him other than fellow center ROR. With some actual talent coming in with the likes of Skinner, Dahlin, Nylander and Mittelstadt, the league will discover him like he was hiding under a rock and it's gonna be hilarious. The likes of Reinhart, Okposo, Risto and Pominville was never going to be enough.

 

[IPS]

I am not getting into this fight, they both are favs of mine and great players, but Matthews played with Tkachuk and Roslovic as well as Keller at the end of the year...Eichel had Milano and Tuch with Larkin on the 2nd line...pretty significant difference there for me that Matthews has benefited with playing with a much higher end group. Those of us who follow USA Hockey have said this for a while, the 1997 birth year is one of the best all-time for the US, the 1996 birth year was average at best outside of Eichel and Schmaltz.

Using stat lines from different years and different teammates seems pretty odd to me since there are so many variables here. Matthews played with better talent, no doubts or questions about it. Eichel was a year older when they played together so that has to be considered as well. But if you are going to try and win this argument using stats that Matthews put up vs Eichel at the USNDP, I think you are setting yourself up for failure, especially for those who have followed these kids and these teams as close as some of us have.

Why exactly are Leafs fans supposed to give any sort of f*** about what their linemates were prior to the NHL? I don't see anyone hanging their argument on pre-NHL production.

 

[AmericanDream]

Why exactly are Leafs fans supposed to give any sort of **** about what their linemates were prior to the NHL? I don't see anyone hanging their argument on pre-NHL production.

are you kidding me?? scroll up...

 

[biotk]

I'm sure there's more of that as well. Scrolled through about 5 pages of a single thread before I found that.

Oh, there is way more of that than you could imagine. For TWS the 7 months difference in age between Laine and Matthews is the only thing that matters, and he has talked about over and over and over and over again.

 

[AmericanDream]

Serious question.... do people actually watch Eichel? If they did they'd realize he's a top 5 talent in the world trapped on a **** team that can barely manage 200 goals a season even with him. For 3 years when Eichel's passed the puck the play has died because Kane was basically the one decent linemate there was for him other than fellow center ROR. With some actual talent coming in with the likes of Skinner, Dahlin, Nylander and Mittelstadt, the league will discover him like he was hiding under a rock and it's gonna be hilarious. The likes of Reinhart, Okposo, Risto and Pominville was never going to be enough.

I agree with some of this, but excuses do need to stop with Eichel. This is the year he has to produce and stay healthy. If he wants to be considered in the elite, we need 80 plus games and 80 plus points out of him..

Regardless of his linemates, Patrick Kane has found ways to produce for years with pylons at center...Kane over the years has rarely played with Hossa, Toews, Sharp, etc... Kane usually gets whoever is leftover not playing with Toews because it is known that Kane can produce on his own...Eichel has to be this as well, no more excuses, he simply needs to produce and I think he can and will. Many on here will look foolish over trashing him, not here in particular just on these boards.

 

[Rob Brown]

are you kidding me?? scroll up...

Isn't biotk a Sabres fan? He's the one that laid out PPG and GPG for both players over each comparable season.

Regardless, remove the USNDP years and Matthews still outperforms in his first two NHL seasons vs. Eichel's first two NHL seasons.

 

[Rob Brown]

Oh, there is way more of that than you could imagine. For TWS the 7 months difference in age between Laine and Matthews is the only thing that matters, and he has talked about over and over and over and over again.

Yeah, it's clearly a selective argument for him.

 

[AmericanDream]

Isn't biotk a Sabres fan? He's the one that laid out PPG and GPG for both players over each comparable season.

Regardless, remove the USNDP years and Matthews still outperforms in his first two NHL seasons vs. Eichel's first two NHL seasons.

I never said anything about non USNDP years - I clearly stated that anyone trying to win arguments over what they did at the USNDP is not looking at the whole picture. I don't care who is perceived better, but Matthews played with more talent than Eichel did there...that is a fact. Outside of that, I am not in any of the argument as I think they both are pretty freaking equal though different styles of players.

 

[Rob Brown]

I never said anything about non USNDP years - I clearly stated that anyone trying to win arguments over what they did at the USNDP is not looking at the whole picture. I don't care who is perceived better, but Matthews played with more talent than Eichel did there...that is a fact. Outside of that, I am not in any of the argument as I think they both are pretty freaking equal though different styles of players.

I know, I was stating that it was a Sabres fans that posted those stats (in reference to your "look up" comment), as I was under the impression that you were implying that Leafs fans were the ones that were bringing up the USNDP stats.

I agree that both players are unreal and are easily in the top 5 of top young players in the league, so this argument is dumb in general. Unfortunately it's going to continue as the rivalry heats up.

 

[AmericanDream]

I know, I was stating that it was a Sabres fans that posted those stats (in reference to your "look up" comment), as I was under the impression that you were implying that Leafs fans were the ones that were bringing up the USNDP stats.

I agree that both players are unreal and are easily in the top 5 of top young players in the league, so this argument is dumb in general. Unfortunately it's going to continue as the rivalry heats up.

yep, not my intention at all, just meant to say look up as it has been discussed for pages lol!!

 

[biotk]

Why compare Eichel's PPG in his sophomore season to Matthews' rookie season? Why does that make sense?

Because it is the only thing they have.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

It makes a lot more sense to compare Eichel's first two NHL seasons to Matthews' first NHL two seasons. That is a more accurate head-to-head approach. Why compare Eichel's sophomore season to Matthew's rookie season? How is that more accurate?

That’s a fair comparison and going by that Matthews is ahead of eichel right now but destroys? Even you would admit that’s hilarious considering all of the circumstances both guys face.

 

[Rob Brown]

That’s a fair comparison and going by that Matthews is ahead of eichel right now but destroys? Even you would admit that’s hilarious considering all of the circumstances both guys face.

Yes, I would agree with you that using the word "destroys" is a hell of an exaggeration.

 

[AmericanDream]

I am honestly just so confused on this board nowadays...

In a thread a day or two ago, I argued for Matthews against Mackinnon in the top 20 centers because people were comparing a 23 year old season (only ppg season mind you) for Mackinnon vs a 20 year old Matthews season last year - and I met people talking as if I was crazy thinking these seasons shouldn't be held in the same light due to the age difference. They felt fair game and should be apples to apples..I did not.

Now on here, I see that barely one year of age difference is that big of a factor to some...I seriously do not know anymore...

This isn't to anyone in here particularly, just something that flip flops all the time to fit certain posters narrative.

 

[biotk]

I never said anything about non USNDP years - I clearly stated that anyone trying to win arguments over what they did at the USNDP is not looking at the whole picture. I don't care who is perceived better, but Matthews played with more talent than Eichel did there...that is a fact. Outside of that, I am not in any of the argument as I think they both are pretty freaking equal though different styles of players.

I think it is valid. When Matthews entered the NHL he did a lot better than I expected he would. I found this odd because I had read repeatedly that Eichel had outperformed Matthews in all of those leagues - but that was based off Eichel being a year old than Matthews. When you compare them at the same age Matthews easily outperformed Eichel. But then the argument just switches to teammates because that is goalpost movers do.

 

[These Are The Days]

I agree with some of this, but excuses do need to stop with Eichel. This is the year he has to produce and stay healthy. If he wants to be considered in the elite, we need 80 plus games and 80 plus points out of him..

Regardless of his linemates, Patrick Kane has found ways to produce for years with pylons at center...Kane over the years has rarely played with Hossa, Toews, Sharp, etc... Kane usually gets whoever is leftover not playing with Toews because it is known that Kane can produce on his own...Eichel has to be this as well, no more excuses, he simply needs to produce and I think he can and will. Many on here will look foolish over trashing him, not here in particular just on these boards.

Hold on I'm really confused. Why are we talking about Patrick and not Evander?? The two are completely different universes. And so too is Eichel from Patrick Kane. Over the years you could get away with putting whoever you wanted with Patrick Kane at even strength because come power play time he had the likes of Hossa, Panarin, Toews, Sharp, Saad, Anisimov, Teravinen the list goes on and on and on. The power play was the one strength the Sabres had in the Bylsma years and the disparity of talent between that and Chicago could not be greater.

Agreed that Eichel needs to have a big year but people don't realize that it's been a case for 3 years now where Eichel has been on the ice with people that have had no idea what to do and how to keep up with him. I'll say it again, his team could barely muster 200 goals (199, 201 and 201 in his 3 years in Buffalo) and for the first time in his career Eichel is gonna have some much better talent around him.

This is legitimately no making excuses. Few teams in the NHL have had to come further these last 3 to 4 years to build a team than Buffalo has. 4 years ago their leading scorer was Tyler Ennis with 46 points and a -19. That was the team Eichel went to and has dealt with since.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Isn't biotk a Sabres fan? He's the one that laid out PPG and GPG for both players over each comparable season.

Regardless, remove the USNDP years and Matthews still outperforms in his first two NHL seasons vs. Eichel's first two NHL seasons.

Add the World Cup of Hockey to the list. Same team, Matthews still out produced him