Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Jojalu]

Defensive responsibilities are always overstated on here and people pretend it bridges the 30 pt gap

Put Matthews on Tampa and he isnt scoring 60 goals or 100 pts when point and stamkos can barely muster a ppg season the first 50 games of the year.

Centers get overrated incredibly here.

On the main boards people do it with Crosby once his offensive game began to fell off

Leaf fans here do it with Matthews when comparing to clearly superior players.

A player getting 30 pieced despite better linemates shows he is an inferior player to a winger.

Matthews is a generational goal scorer but he isnt a generational offensive player.

Kucherov is going toe to toe with Mcdavid whose potentially the GOAT. That is more impressive than 60+ goals and 110 pts with good defense for a star player in a non-defensive shutdown role

Anyways it doesn't matter. Ive gone off topic and screw kucherov and other players lol now thar I think about it

Congrats to Matthews on goal 60. Having a top end year and great bounce back from last year.

Hopefully he keeps em coming and dominates playoffs with a Smythe.

If we are talking about an overall hockey player, then Matthews is by far the superior player. He dose all the little things that almost every forward won't and it's shown by him being top 5 in every catergory.

But your point is also true. This year Kucherov, and Pasta have had a better offensive year, with less help. Matthews would and should be discussed for the Hart if it was based on who is the " best hockey player" but the award usually is handed out to has had the greatest offensive season.

 

[hamzarocks]

If we are talking about an overall hockey player, then Matthews is by far the superior player. He dose all the little things that almost every forward won't and it's shown by him being top 5 in every catergory.

But your point is also true. This year Kucherov, and Pasta have had a better offensive year, with less help. Matthews would and should be discussed for the Hart if it was based on who is the " best hockey player" but the award usually is handed out to has had the greatest offensive season.

Disagree with your first take.

matthews is too inconsistent this year and defensively has made more mistakes than usual.

If he had been more consistent he'd have been closer to the top 3 guys and have a higher chance at the awards

His cold streaks will cost him the awards unfortunately

 

[Jojalu]

Disagree with your first take.

matthews is too inconsistent this year and defensively has made more mistakes than usual.

If he had been more consistent he'd have been closer to the top 3 guys and have a higher chance at the awards

His cold streaks will cost him the awards unfortunately

I would agree that Kuch is more deserving of the Hart if it is indeed the MVP award.

The Leafs still might make the playoffs without Matthews, while TB almost has zero chance without Kuch.

If you take into consideration, hits, blocks, takeaways, faceoffs and any kind of analytics, then Matthews becomes the superior player in almost every way outside of raw points.

Which is why I tend to not care about xgoals. Should have, could have doesn't translate into wins.

 

[hamzarocks]

I would agree that Kuch is more deserving of the Hart if it is indeed the MVP award.

The Leafs still might make the playoffs without Matthews, while TB almost has zero chance without Kuch.

If you take into consideration, hits, blocks, takeaways, faceoffs and any kind of analytics, then Matthews becomes the superior player in almost every way outside of raw points.

Which is why I tend to not care about xgoals. Should have, could have doesn't translate into wins.

Some of those are based on position (faceoffs for center)

Im sure kucherov has some better stats such as PP zone entries as hes the main puck carrier for his team

Matthews does hit more and block more shots which is a positive for him, but I don't see that as a main facet expected of a superstar player and I don't know how strong the relation in the type of hits+blocks a star player makes to winning games is as compared to goals + assists

These type of factors for me can make up for a small 5-10 gap and gove the edge to the player who brings more hits/blocks etc

However if the gap is 30+ pts, I personally view that as too large/sizable for physical + defensive factors to make up for

If Kucherov was playing on the 2018/2019 bolts and Stamkos and Point were 110+ pt players than I could still see argument that kucherov benefits heavily from system + linemates.

However botb seemed to have down years until very recently and Kucherov should finish with 40-50 more points than either of them which I think shows he os the biggest line/offense driver in the league this season

I don't think 2023-2024 Matthews could bring that same impact for the 23/24 tampa bay team. 21/22 Hart matthews I would think would be closer and could possibly pull it off as he was strong in his play making and played with Kase at times and produced very well

 

[Judas Tavares]

There are times when I wish certain people on this site (in this thread) could be stuck in some sort of purgatory where the only Leaf team they had at their disposal for the rest of their lives was insert some shitty roster between 2006-2015 here.

Honestly. We don't deserve good things. Take Jay Rosehill, Jason Blake, Tim Connolly and enjoy to your heart's desire. Honest. To. f***ing. Pete (Holland).

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Still pretty hard to fathom that prior to Matthews, the best Leaf goal scorers I got to watch were Sundin and Kessel, they topped out at 41 and 37 goals with the Leafs. This animal scores 40 on a down year, pretty incredible that he does it while playing a 2-way game.

He's on his way to being the greatest Leaf ever, he's just got to lead in the playoffs. We need to win a few rounds, no more excuses.

 

[IPS]

Would be awesome if Matthews went on another super heater to end the season and somehow get 10 goals in the last 10 games to get 70.

 

[Jojalu]

Would be awesome if Matthews went on another super heater to end the season and somehow get 10 goals in the last 10 games to get 70.

It's not that crazy.

He has had multiple streaks in his career where he has scored 10 in 10.

I hope he gets at least 6 to pass Ovie's 65

 

[TheBigFour]

there are other ways to evaluate players than just comparing " total raw points". Matthew is third in GAR and first in XGAR which takes in many different factors in consideration. Kuch might be leading matthews by alot of points but their 5v5 production is very similar (the difference being secondary assists).

Matthews is special talent.

 

[Warden of the North]

Disagree with your first take.

matthews is too inconsistent this year and defensively has made more mistakes than usual.

If he had been more consistent he'd have been closer to the top 3 guys and have a higher chance at the awards

His cold streaks will cost him the awards unfortunately

.....do you know what the Oilers and McDavid were up to for the first third of the season?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Even with scoring being up the past few years it is really impressive to have multiple 60 goal seasons and it is great that we get to enjoy some upper level talent in Toronto after so long without. Despite their faults we're lucky to have them.

Just crossing my fingers that Matthews, Marner, and Nylander can finally break out in the playoffs.

 

[hamzarocks]

.....do you know what the Oilers and McDavid were up to for the first third of the season?

What does that have to do with my point?

Mcdavid started slow first 15ish games of the year, had an injury which he worled through (he wanted to be in ross contention still as he was ~ppg in this 15 games)

Since then hes been above 2ppg. That screams crazy consistent and gretzky like dominance to me.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

It's not that crazy.

He has had multiple streaks in his career where he has scored 10 in 10.

I hope he gets at least 6 to pass Ovie's 65

I think he'll get there, now that he hit 60 the pressure is gone, plus Mitch back in the lineup will create more opportunities...especially on that anemic PP.

 

[Scion]

Defensive responsibilities are always overstated on here and people pretend it bridges the 30 pt gap

Put Matthews on Tampa and he isnt scoring 60 goals or 100 pts when point and stamkos can barely muster a ppg season the first 50 games of the year.

Centers get overrated incredibly here.

On the main boards people do it with Crosby once his offensive game began to fell off

Leaf fans here do it with Matthews when comparing to clearly superior players.

A player getting 30 pieced despite better linemates shows he is an inferior player to a winger.

Matthews is a generational goal scorer but he isnt a generational offensive player.

Kucherov is going toe to toe with Mcdavid whose potentially the GOAT. That is more impressive than 60+ goals and 110 pts with good defense for a star player in a non-defensive shutdown role

Anyways it doesn't matter. Ive gone off topic and screw kucherov and other players lol now thar I think about it

Congrats to Matthews on goal 60. Having a top end year and great bounce back from last year.

Hopefully he keeps em coming and dominates playoffs with a Smythe.

LOL what?

If we are talking about an overall hockey player, then Matthews is by far the superior player. He dose all the little things that almost every forward won't and it's shown by him being top 5 in every catergory.

But your point is also true. This year Kucherov, and Pasta have had a better offensive year, with less help. Matthews would and should be discussed for the Hart if it was based on who is the " best hockey player" but the award usually is handed out to has had the greatest offensive season.

If you look at primary points Matthews is right there with the top point producers. He has struggled with secondary assists, which says more about his linemates and luck than anything else. Personally, I am taking Matthews over everyone else besides McDavid. MacKinnon is in the conversation as well, but I personally prefer the defense and goal scoring of Matthews.

 

[Scion]

It's not that crazy.

He has had multiple streaks in his career where he has scored 10 in 10.

I hope he gets at least 6 to pass Ovie's 65

66 is my hope as well. Obviously 70 would be amazing, but 66 cements Matthews as the best single season scorer of this era of players.

 

[Martin Skoula]

there are other ways to evaluate players than just comparing " total raw points". Matthew is third in GAR and first in XGAR which takes in many different factors in consideration. Kuch might be leading matthews by alot of points but their 5v5 production is very similar (the difference being secondary assists).

Matthews is special talent.

It’s so crazy that as soon as Marner goes down and Matthews becomes the primary puck carrier on his line he mysteriously starts racking up secondary assists all of a sudden. He’s pacing for 120-130 in the games without Marner, he must have learned how to play make overnight to be getting all those totally critical transition assists that puck carriers like Marner, Kucherov, Panarin, McDavid live off of.

 

[authentic]

It's not that crazy.

He has had multiple streaks in his career where he has scored 10 in 10.

I hope he gets at least 6 to pass Ovie's 65

After his 55th game where he already had 52 goals I'm pretty sure he had 39 goals in his last 35 games at that point. Very plausible for him if he really wants 70.

 

[Warden of the North]

What does that have to do with my point?

Mcdavid started slow first 15ish games of the year, had an injury which he worled through (he wanted to be in ross contention still as he was ~ppg in this 15 games)

Since then hes been above 2ppg. That screams crazy consistent and gretzky like dominance to me.

So McDavid can use injury as an excuse for poor performance but Matthews can't?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So McDavid can use injury as an excuse for poor performance but Matthews can't?

Not just an excuse, but an extra point in McDavid's favour because he has the determination to play through it

 

[Maple Leaf]

CantLoseWithMatthews​

CantLoseWithMatthews

2oowowo oR=

 

[hamzarocks]

So McDavid can use injury as an excuse for poor performance but Matthews can't?

When was matthews injured this year?

If your talking about the prior year and him being injured, well Mcdavid ended up rebounding in season when he had an injury while Matthews took until this season to bounce back

Mcdavid is going to be the GOAT. He is't a guy you can compare to anyone but 99 and 66

 

[Stephen]

If we are talking about an overall hockey player, then Matthews is by far the superior player. He dose all the little things that almost every forward won't and it's shown by him being top 5 in every catergory.

But your point is also true. This year Kucherov, and Pasta have had a better offensive year, with less help. Matthews would and should be discussed for the Hart if it was based on who is the " best hockey player" but the award usually is handed out to has had the greatest offensive season.

Disagree.

Matthews has Top 2-3 player tools and can play any way you want. So in that sense he might be considered to be better than a Kucherov, Pastrnak, Draisaitl, Rantanen as per common wisdom. On his best nights his ceiling is better than just about anyone in the game.

But he also has two weaknesses which hold him back. Which is efficiency in production, aka facilitating and generating a normal rate of assists to goals… and also a low floor game and inconsistency when he isn’t that elite drive train player. His cruising altitude can be way lower than it should be.

Guys like Kucherov can obviously be guilty of dogging it too but they also bring it more easily and consistently that accounts for a 30 point gap. And Matthews has to close that.

 

[Stephen]

I’d also challenge the notion somewhat that goal scoring is equivalent to much higher point totals.

When you compare scorers from previous eras like Pavel Bure, Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, etc. your Rocket winner wasn’t necessarily equivalent to your Art Ross level forwards nor were they directly related to team success either.

What does this all mean? I just want to see Matthews keep growing and become a credible Art Ross threat year after year. It’s entirely within his capability.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I’d also challenge the notion somewhat that goal scoring is equivalent to much higher point totals.

When you compare scorers from previous eras like Pavel Bure, Rick Nash, Dany Heatley, etc. your Rocket winner wasn’t necessarily equivalent to your Art Ross level forwards nor were they directly related to team success either.

What does this all mean? I just want to see Matthews keep growing and become a credible Art Ross threat year after year. It’s entirely within his capability.

Matthews being the goal scorer he is, at centre is amazing.

Usually as a winger, you're more free to light it up.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

CantLoseWithMatthews​

2oowowo oR=

Well said