Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[MacMacandBarbie]

Either way there's not much debate he's the best two-way player in the world at this point

If you think Matthews has a better two way game than Barkov you are even more out of touch with what the majority of people think than I thought. You really need to get out of your echo chamber.

 

[Calderon]

Does anybody have hard info on Hart voting dates? Because I think Hart has been voted on already. A Finnish NHL commentator (the lone guy who calls the games on TV) has a podcast and in his last week's episode he said he had a deadline on voting on the awards a few days later, last week's friday.

 

[authentic]

If you think Matthews has a better two way game than Barkov you are even more out of touch with what the majority of people think than I thought. You really need to get out of your echo chamber.

Good thing offense is half of the two-way. Is Barkov closer to Matthews offensively than Matthews is to Barkov defensively? I don't think so...

Then there's also the fact that Matthews has dominated most of their head to head matchups in their careers

Tampa Bay couldn't even get a shot on goal when Matthews was on the ice last year in a couple of their playoff games (one that went to OT and Matthews played 24+ minutes Tampa had 0 shots when Matthews was on the ice) and Kucherov couldn't record a single point matched up against Matthews. You're in denial how about good he is defensively but most others are starting to take notice of his defensive ability.

 

[Calderon]

I find it crazy that Ovechkin never had more than one 60 goal season.
and to think Matthews already has 2 and maybe a 70 goal season under his belt before hes even 27 years old.

may not need so many 50 goal seasons as he ages to out score him.

long way to go but off to a great start

I don't find it crazy as much as disappointing. The number of rocket wins is unmatched and 50 goals between 2005-2020 was pretty close to what 60 goals is in today's league so it's not that Ovi wasn't dominant. Just that for the greatest goal scorer ever his peak is underwhelming and that's why I have him as the greatest only begrudgingly. But then again it's widely accepted that his claim to the greatest is based on longevity instead of peak so it's not this huge revelation anyway.

However, the 65 goal total does still compare very favorably against one season adjusted totals.

 

[authentic]

Barkov has a .938 on ice sv% 5on5 and Matthews has a .903 and Matthews still has a better 5on5 goal differential, not to mention how much better the Panthers are defensively this season than Toronto...

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Good thing offense is half of the two-way. Is Barkov closer to Matthews offensively than Matthews is to Barkov defensively? I don't think so...

Barkov is certainly no slouch offensively. He is much better at driving play up the ice and finding an open guy than Matthews is, and the advanced stats show he impacts overall goal differential more than Matthews does, which is the best barometer for the silly question you posed. So, yes he is, based on that stat. Can you provide evidence to show otherwise?

Then there's also the fact that Matthews has dominated most of their head to head matchups in their careers

Wow, that literally has nothing to do with anything. Even Crosby fans aren't using head to head team results to justify him over OV. You can do better than that.

Tampa Bay couldn't even get a shot on goal when Matthews was on the ice last year in a couple of their playoff games (one that went to OT and Matthews played 24+ minutes Tampa had 0 shots when Matthews was on the ice) and Kucherov couldn't record a single point matched up against Matthews. You're in denial how about good he is defensively but most others are starting to take notice of his defensive ability.

I am not in denial of how good he is defensively. Those two didn't even go head to head the whole series anyway. You are really grasping at straws to prove your point. It seems to fall apart when I think Matthews is good defensively, just not better than a proven Selke winner and far better two way player than Barkov. It is okay to have a reasonable take sometimes.

 

[authentic]

Barkov is certainly no slouch offensively. He is much better at driving play up the ice and finding an open guy than Matthews is, and the advanced stats show he impacts overall goal differential more than Matthews does, which is the best barometer for the silly question you posed. So, yes he is, based on that stat. Can you provide evidence to show otherwise?

Wow, that literally has nothing to do with anything. Even Crosby fans aren't using head to head team results to justify him over OV. You can do better than that.

I am not in denial of how good he is defensively. Those two didn't even go head to head the whole series anyway. You are really grasping at straws to prove your point. It seems to fall apart when I think Matthews is good defensively, just not better than a proven Selke winner and far better two way player than Barkov. It is okay to have a reasonable take sometimes.

He's the best two-way player in the NHL whether you choose to accept it or not, doesn't really matter much to me...

Just to clarify I am not saying he is better defensively than Barkov, that Barkov is not an amazing offensive player in his own right, or that Matthews is a FAR better two-way player, I am saying that the player who has 69 goals compared to the player who has 78 points, and is also extremely close if not better in many defensive stats IS the better two-way player...

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

He's the best two-way player in the NHL whether you choose to accept it or not, doesn't really matter much to me...

Just to clarify I am not saying he is better defensively than Barkov, that Barkov is not an amazing offensive player in his own right, or that Matthews is a FAR better two-way player, I am saying that the player who has 69 goals compared to the player who has 78 points, and is also extremely close if not better in many defensive stats IS the better two-way player...

But you are just plain wrong, because there are very little relevant defensive stats that Matthews matches Barkov on, and Barkov just plain blows Matthews out of the water in the important defensive stats that people rely on for Selke voting, which is why he is the frontrunner. Maybe you should look up some of these defensive stats of Barkov's for yourself before claiming Matthews has matched him or laughably claim that he exceeded him.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Barkov has a .938 on ice sv% 5on5 and Matthews has a .903 and Matthews still has a better 5on5 goal differential, not to mention how much better the Panthers are defensively this season than Toronto...

Whoa you are using goal differential to showcase that Matthews' team is worse defensively than Barkov's, but throwing out the stats that show that Barkov is the main reason why that is the case?

 

[hatterson]

Whoa you are using goal differential to showcase that Matthews' team is worse defensively than Barkov's, but throwing out the stats that show that Barkov is the main reason why that is the case?

I’d actually be curious to see some shot quality metrics between the two.

A .035 save percentage difference is massive. Presumably at least some of that is due to quality of shots against, but also some is almost for sure due to luck because it’s the NHL and stats are always very messy.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Just get that feeling that he does it tonight and will cap off one of the best goal scoring seasons in history.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He's the best two-way player in the NHL whether you choose to accept it or not, doesn't really matter much to me...

Just to clarify I am not saying he is better defensively than Barkov, that Barkov is not an amazing offensive player in his own right, or that Matthews is a FAR better two-way player, I am saying that the player who has 69 goals compared to the player who has 78 points, and is also extremely close if not better in many defensive stats IS the better two-way player...

Using your logic.

McDavid is a better two-way player than Matthews.

 

[authentic]

I’d actually be curious to see some shot quality metrics between the two.

A .035 save percentage difference is massive. Presumably at least some of that is due to quality of shots against, but also some is almost for sure due to luck because it’s the NHL and stats are always very messy.

Players have next to no influence on their on ice save %, this should be obvious by how much it fluctuates from season to season.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Players have next to no influence on their on ice save %, this should be obvious by how much it fluctuates from season to season.

You dont think players forcing lower quality shots have an influence on save %?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

You dont think players forcing lower quality shots have an influence on save %?

It is a pretty minor influence compared to having a good goalie.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Huh? He spent the bulk of is career in the slightly less dead puck era.

so what, way less high end talent in that time. still pretty crazy,

prob the beginning of the end of the dead puck era after the 2 line pass rule was taken out

Ovechkin could have gotten 60 but he didnt

 

[OilWagon]

Does nostrils play tomorrow if he doesn't hit 70 tonight?

 

[authentic]

Using your logic.

McDavid is a better two-way player than Matthews.

McDavid isn't half as good as Matthews defensively

You dont think players forcing lower quality shots have an influence on save %?

No, not on an individual basis. Matthews on ice save % was .920 and .927 in his first two seasons and since he's become really good defensively he's had seasons of .870, .895, and .889 this season.

 

[OilWagon]

McDavid isn't half as good as Matthews defensively

Then why do they have basically the same GA/60 and XGA/60 this year, while Mcdavid has a lower HDCA/60 and CA/60 ? He's not half as good really?

 

[authentic]

Then why do they have basically the same GA/60 and XGA/60, while Mcdavid has a lower HDCA/60 and CA/60 ? He's not half as good really?

Look no further than the teams they are playing for this season, this is not rocket science.

 

[OilWagon]

Look no further than the teams they are playing for this season, this is not rocket science.

Damn it's the Oilers carrying Mcdavid, in every other thread it's the other way!

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Look no further than the teams they are playing for this season, this is not rocket science.

Yeah oiler fans, y'all are stacked defensively!

 

[Tobias Kahun]

McDavid isn't half as good as Matthews defensively



No, not on an individual basis. Matthews on ice save % was .920 and .927 in his first two seasons and since he's become really good defensively he's had seasons of .870, .895, and .889 this season.

And matthews isnt half as good as mcdavid offensively.

Should even out.

 

[Three On Zero]

Why have a pissing match? This is a great season for many.

1. Crosby cementing himself as the best since Lemieux
2. Matthews potentially 70 goals
3. McDavid/Kucherov potential 100 assist seasons

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

3 shots so far tonight