Attendance issues: Part II

[MAROONSRoad]

70,000 people watching a football game right next door? That's the best excuse they've had all season.

I guess you are being facetious.

Since Atlanta's metro population is 5,475,000 and 70,000 were attending the football game right next door, that left only 5,405,000 Atlantans to fill the 18K seats at Philips Arena for the Thrashers game.

GHOST

 

[BadHammy*]

Why do we bother? Canada owns hockey, we're sorry for trying to take it from you, blah, blah, blah, insert false, apologetic comment to angry Canadians here.

 

[BeachBolt]

I guess you are being facetious.



GHOST

I meant it as of all nights to have poor attendance, tonight is one night that I could understand. Falcons at home playing a HUGE game, most that couldn't get tickets probably wanted to watch on tv.

If they did not have such a crappy track record then it wouldn't be as bad, unfortunately the 10k crowds are about status quo in ATL this year.

 

[Marv4Life]

Let's see. If I'm a pro sports fan living in Georgia, what will I choose: an important NFL game where the Falcons are fighting for a playoff spot, or a Thrashers Wild contest in November. Hmmm, tough choice... I'm shocked they announced it over 10k.

But what's the point? These people will never get it.

 

[CC Chiefs*]

Let's see. If I'm a pro sports fan living in Georgia, what will I choose: an important NFL game where the Falcons are fighting for a playoff spot, or a Thrashers Wild contest in November. Hmmm, tough choice... I'm shocked they announced it over 10k.

But what's the point? These people will never get it.

I'd be willing to bet if there were a Toronto Argonauts game and Leafs game being played at the same time the Leafs would still sellout.

 

[jessebelanger]

I'd be willing to bet if there were a Toronto Argonauts game and Leafs game being played at the same time the Leafs would still sellout.

If there is a leafs game being played on a saturday night, would an Argonauts v Bombers played at the same time sell out?

 

[CGG]

If there is a leafs game being played on a saturday night, would an Argonauts v Bombers played at the same time sell out?

No they wouldn't. Which is why the Argonauts have a payroll of about $4.2 million, and the attendance they would get would be in line with a second-rate professional league. They're not trying to compete with the Dallas Cowboys, but the Thrashers are trying to compete with the Maple Leafs, Canadiens and Rangers. Atlanta's 6000 in attendance would be perfect for an AHL team, it's just not enough to justify having an NHL team there.

Interesting thought, wouldn't the fine folks of Atlanta be a wee bit upset if the Falcons got yanked and moved to Toronto, where they drew only 20,000 people on a Sunday night game and the few Toronto NFL Team fans try to justify the poor attendance on a Leafs game being played at the same time?

(Yes I know, the Thrashers were an expansion team, not a reloacted Canadian team, but you get the point).

 

[cbcwpg]

Why do we bother? Canada owns hockey, we're sorry for trying to take it from you, blah, blah, blah, insert false, apologetic comment to angry Canadians here.

Nobody from Canada is saying the NHL can't be in the U.S. nor that the majority of NHL teams can't be in the U.S.

Why do we bother? All Canadians want to see is the NHL having franchises in cities that actually give a (insert 4 letter word of your choice here) !!!

The fact that cities like Atlanta ( 5.4 million ) can't draw flies to thier games is pathetic, when cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Nashville, which are much smaller, can have good attendance.

And don't get me started on the " but our team sucks ". Sorry, but nobody sucks more than EDM right now, and they still have fans.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Let's see. If I'm a pro sports fan living in Georgia, what will I choose: an important NFL game where the Falcons are fighting for a playoff spot, or a Thrashers Wild contest in November. Hmmm, tough choice... I'm shocked they announced it over 10k.

But what's the point? These people will never get it.

There should be enough HOCKEY fans that an NFL game going on still means the Thrashers can pull in 15 to 17 thousand.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but didn't the Thrashers draw less than 10,000 not too long ago when there was no Falcons game going on?

The excuses just keep coming from every angle....this one is pretty easy to prove wrong though.

November 4, 2010 vs. Columbus - 8,461
Was there a Falcons game on the 4th?

October 29, 2010 vs. Buffalo - 10,172
Was there a Falcons game on the 29th?

October 22, 2010 vs. Tampa Bay - 9,138
Was there a Falcons game on the 22nd?

October 20, 2010 vs. Buffalo - 8,820
Was there a Falcons game on the 20th?

I think that's enough. So why when the Thrashers draw a reported 10,055 on a day when the Falcons play do people say "Oh...it was because the Falcons were playing a meaningful game."

It clearly wasn't ANY different compared to when the Falcons aren't playing. Unless the Falcons played home games on all the dates I just listed.

 

[Jeffrey93]

Why do we bother? Canada owns hockey, we're sorry for trying to take it from you, blah, blah, blah, insert false, apologetic comment to angry Canadians here.

Other than the few that bring up Winnipeg....when people bring up that the Thrashers should be moved they don't really bring up a destination.

I've said it before, but it gets ignored every time, that I don't care where they moved as long as it is a market that will support them. If that is Kansas City - fine, if it is Las Vegas - ughh...but fine, if it is Houston - fine, if it is a Canadian market (Winnipeg, Hamilton, etc.) - fine.

I'd rather see this team moved to KC and sellout every game (doubt that would happen but whatever) than stay put and draw less than 10,000 a game and have horrible TV ratings.

Make this about Canada all you want....but realize if Winnipeg, Hamilton & Quebec City all had teams right now....we'd still be calling for this team to be moved. There wouldn't be a Canadian market left that is suitable....and that wouldn't matter.

 

[Kebekoi]

Other than the few that bring up Winnipeg....when people bring up that the Thrashers should be moved they don't really bring up a destination.

I've said it before, but it gets ignored every time, that I don't care where they moved as long as it is a market that will support them. If that is Kansas City - fine, if it is Las Vegas - ughh...but fine, if it is Houston - fine, if it is a Canadian market (Winnipeg, Hamilton, etc.) - fine.

I'd rather see this team moved to KC and sellout every game (doubt that would happen but whatever) than stay put and draw less than 10,000 a game and have horrible TV ratings.

Make this about Canada all you want....but realize if Winnipeg, Hamilton & Quebec City all had teams right now....we'd still be calling for this team to be moved. There wouldn't be a Canadian market left that is suitable....and that wouldn't matter.

Toronto2?

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

I was at the Thrash/Wild game, and yes the actual attendance was around 7k. The lower bowl on the non-club side was pretty full, but the balcony was basically empty. The club seats in the lower bowl were empty, but the suites were more full than usual.

I think this shows a few things:
1.) Sales for big corporate suites are okay
2.) Sales for smaller corporates (club seats) are abysmal
3.) Sales for the hardcore crowd (lower bowl) are passable
4.) "Sales" for the comp tix and families in the balcony are terrible

2 and 4 would have been definitely affected by the Falcons' game. The hardcore crowd doesn't care about the Falcons enough to not come, and the people in the suites can keep an eye on the Falcons on their suite TVs. The Falcons are strongly favored right now to be the NFC Super Bowl contender. There's a massive buzz about them I haven't seen in a while. There's a "This is finally our chance!!!" attitude about them.

I was going to buy tickets, but I was given tickets by my kid's teacher who was going to stay home and watch the Falcons. He goes to Thrashers and Hawks (NBA) games at Philips all the time. That's some evidence of what was going on...

Also, there are a few teams that do not draw well at Philips at all, even in past years when Atlanta has had passable attendance or very good attendance (during hot streaks):
1.) Minnesota (Western team, few transplants in ATL...I only noticed a handful of people with Wild jerseys). They also have a "reputation" for being defensive, and Atlanta fans want to see their guys score - (well they did alright last night!!!)
2.) Columbus (Western team, usually a low-scoring trap game from both sides when they play. I've been to a few of these games, and they're really really boring).
3.) Florida (They're in the SE, but they're always boring and vanilla and pretty irrelevant)

The crowd against Minny was tiny...but it was really loud and boisterous, and one of the most fun times I've had at a T-Birds game. If Atlanta keeps playing like that, they'll get back up to respectable levels...as long as there isn't a Falcons national game going on right next door (it's directly across the street!)

 

[Jeffrey93]

The crowd against Minny was tiny...but it was really loud and boisterous, and one of the most fun times I've had at a T-Birds game. If Atlanta keeps playing like that, they'll get back up to respectable levels...as long as there isn't a Falcons national game going on right next door (it's directly across the street!)

Haven't you been following along? It doesn't matter how fun the game is to be at or how the team plays or any of that. If they don't make the playoffs and go deep in the playoffs it is all pointless.

People apparently stay away because they look at the standings and refuse to go because the team isn't good enough. But....you got to see an exciting game and a Thrashers win. Which has always been my point. Even if it was 5-1 for the Wild it still might have been a very exciting game.

You never know when there is going to be a 'game of the year'......you also never know when there is going to be a 'yawner of the year'. That's called sports. Win or lose...the contest can still be very entertaining.

Glad to hear that you had a good time. It shouldn't take a pile of 5-1 wins to get fans in the building though. 3-2 losses can be just as exciting (if not moreso) as a win. It just seems I keep getting told that the wins are all that matters. Which always makes me think of those Devils that played the most boring hockey ever seen and won lots of games.

Anyway....glad to hear you had a good time at the game.

 

[Marv4Life]

There should be enough HOCKEY fans that an NFL game going on still means the Thrashers can pull in 15 to 17 thousand.

Correct me if I'm wrong....but didn't the Thrashers draw less than 10,000 not too long ago when there was no Falcons game going on?

The excuses just keep coming from every angle....this one is pretty easy to prove wrong though.

November 4, 2010 vs. Columbus - 8,461
Was there a Falcons game on the 4th?

October 29, 2010 vs. Buffalo - 10,172
Was there a Falcons game on the 29th?

October 22, 2010 vs. Tampa Bay - 9,138
Was there a Falcons game on the 22nd?

October 20, 2010 vs. Buffalo - 8,820
Was there a Falcons game on the 20th?

I think that's enough. So why when the Thrashers draw a reported 10,055 on a day when the Falcons play do people say "Oh...it was because the Falcons were playing a meaningful game."

It clearly wasn't ANY different compared to when the Falcons aren't playing. Unless the Falcons played home games on all the dates I just listed.

LMAO. Is that a joke? Yeah, a mediocre-at-best Thrashers team should draw at least 15,000 on a weeknight against the Minnesota Wild , at the same time an NFL team(now 7-2 BTW) is playing next door. I agree. Do you fail to understand there are hockey fans who also watch football?

As for the rest, besides the fact the Thrashers aren't setting the league on fire and it's November(attendance is usually down at this time of year in markets league-wide), 2 of those weeknight games feature poor box office draws. Sabres I might give you, but crowds for those games should be close to sellout material.

Now to be fair, if anyone wants to say "poor transportation" or the place being located downtown is a problem, then I call bullcrap, because Phillips is technically just as mass-transit accessible as my team's arena.

 

[Jeffrey93]

LMAO. Is that a joke? Yeah, a mediocre-at-best Thrashers team should draw at least 15,000 on a weeknight against the Minnesota Wild , at the same time an NFL team(now 7-2 BTW) is playing next door. I agree. Do you fail to understand there are hockey fans who also watch football?

Was attendance really different last night than it was on any other night in Atlanta?
If you can't succeed with the competition....you can't succeed. Attendance needs to be 'respectable' regardless of what else is going on.

 

[Hoser]

Not only that, but at least "Prudential Center" sounds somewhat pleasing, just like RBC Center, Staples Center, Xcel Energy Center, Bell Centre, Air Canada Centre, etc.

Wells Fargo Center, St. Pete Times Forum, BankAtlantic Center, Jobing.com Arena, Rogers Arena, and HSBC Arena, on the other hand... God, they sound like trainwrecks.

How the hell does "RBC Center" sound 'pleasing' and "HSBC Arena" sound "like a trainwreck"?

Xcel Energy Center sounds pleasing to you, but Rogers Arena sounds like a trainwreck? Are you kidding?

 

[Marv4Life]

Was attendance really different last night than it was on any other night in Atlanta?
.

Compared to opening night and the Saturday games, I'm positive it was. You'll find out tomorrow when the Pens are in town

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Other than the few that bring up Winnipeg....when people bring up that the Thrashers should be moved they don't really bring up a destination.

I've said it before, but it gets ignored every time, that I don't care where they moved as long as it is a market that will support them. If that is Kansas City - fine, if it is Las Vegas - ughh...but fine, if it is Houston - fine, if it is a Canadian market (Winnipeg, Hamilton, etc.) - fine.

I'd rather see this team moved to KC and sellout every game (doubt that would happen but whatever) than stay put and draw less than 10,000 a game and have horrible TV ratings.

Make this about Canada all you want....but realize if Winnipeg, Hamilton & Quebec City all had teams right now....we'd still be calling for this team to be moved. There wouldn't be a Canadian market left that is suitable....and that wouldn't matter.

Jeffrey93:

Winnipeg has the Moose, Hamilton has the Bulldogs(stop w/ the Balsillie reference); and Quebec has the immensely popular Remparts who are owned by an NHL Hall of Famer in Patrick Roy, so your statement of all 3 markets not having teams is falllllllllse

go research something before you post next time about MTB, HAM & QUE not having franchises

 

[jacketracket*]

I explained all this and you chose to ignore it to continue on your 'I'm better than everyone' rant. The numbers you are referencing are for the entire day of who came and went. I remember watching the reports and all the media reporters stated that at times there was a larger number but for the most part there were maybe a few dozen people lingering around.

Ahhh ... so this is the new explanation for your previously inaccurate "accurate" reports of something you clearly knew nothing about prior to opening your mouth the other day, eh? Interesting how your recollection of events "evolves" with each new challenge to your inaccurate "accuracy".

Gotcha ...

You won't care though....because you're better than me.

What I find ironic is that you actually call other people elitists! Keep up the great work!

Better than you?

No.

I just take exception to your theory that because every other twelve-year old on your block plays street hockey all summer long, you're somehow entitled to decide who "deserves" hockey and who doesn't.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

Nobody from Canada is saying the NHL can't be in the U.S. nor that the majority of NHL teams can't be in the U.S.

Why do we bother? All Canadians want to see is the NHL having franchises in cities that actually give a (insert 4 letter word of your choice here) !!!

The fact that cities like Atlanta ( 5.4 million ) can't draw flies to thier games is pathetic, when cities like Calgary, Edmonton, Nashville, which are much smaller, can have good attendance.

And don't get me started on the " but our team sucks ". Sorry, but nobody sucks more than EDM right now, and they still have fans.

Why do you care? How does it effect you?

Other than the few that bring up Winnipeg....when people bring up that the Thrashers should be moved they don't really bring up a destination.

I've said it before, but it gets ignored every time, that I don't care where they moved as long as it is a market that will support them. If that is Kansas City - fine, if it is Las Vegas - ughh...but fine, if it is Houston - fine, if it is a Canadian market (Winnipeg, Hamilton, etc.) - fine.

I'd rather see this team moved to KC and sellout every game (doubt that would happen but whatever) than stay put and draw less than 10,000 a game and have horrible TV ratings.

Make this about Canada all you want....but realize if Winnipeg, Hamilton & Quebec City all had teams right now....we'd still be calling for this team to be moved. There wouldn't be a Canadian market left that is suitable....and that wouldn't matter.

As Ghost has posted many times, he doesn't care if the NHL or hockey for that matter is successful in the Sunbelt, or China or Timbuktu. Why do you care whether it's successful in Atlanta?

I certainly don't care if Hamilton, Quebec City, Las Vegas or Kansas City ever get a team.

I buy season tickets from my local team. I also travel 1000 miles or 1600 kilometers to ten to fifteen games per year to see the team I grew up following. I'm not sorry or sympathetic if Hamilton fans have to travel to the ACC and pay ticket scalpers a lot of money to go to a game. I've regularly traveled farther and paid scalpers big money to see games in Philly.

If you think that's bad, try going to an Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama or Tennessee football game, but first take out a second mortgage on your house. Even season ticketholders don't really pay face value. They have to donate many thousands of dollars every year to buy the right to buy tickets. It's like the Toronto and Columbus PSL holders having to re-buy their PSLs every year, or else lose their tickets.

I just don't really care if you don't want to go to the trouble or expense. I don't really care whether you have a team. I only care about the teams I support and maybe a little about Winnipeg because there are people I like from there.

I'm much more interested in the financials of a team like Atlanta, plans on how to make them competitive and improve their top line (as in revenues) while remaining in Atlanta.

 

[Magnus Fulgur]

Was attendance really different last night than it was on any other night in Atlanta?
If you can't succeed with the competition....you can't succeed. Attendance needs to be 'respectable' regardless of what else is going on.

I've been to three or four Thrashers/Wild games over the years. Attendance was brutal at all of them, no matter the time of week or the year.

Add Islanders to another team that doesn't draw in Atlanta, btw.

The Pens game should be well attended, buoyed a lot by Pens fans that live in Atlanta. The key is to get some of them to at least attend non-Pens games as Atlanta fans (this happens very often here)...so by the next time Pittsburgh comes to failure-mode, we can convert them to Thrasherdom. The Thrashers might be horrible and lose money, but the Thrashers/NBA/Arena ownership is a cash-cow.

Forgot to mention, I brought with me to the game an old buddy from Boston who's in Atlanta for the next month for work. He knows his hockey and is a Bruins fan. He loved the game, raved about the in-arena production values (and he works in film production), and was on the edge of his seat hooting and hollering for the Thrashers from the second period on. He loved The Thrashers, and is going to go to some more games while he's here. His favorite player to watch was Byfuglien on D!

 

[jpstfx28]

this conversation is good

 

[Whileee]

Why do you care? How does it effect you?

As Ghost has posted many times, he doesn't care if the NHL or hockey for that matter is successful in the Sunbelt, or China or Timbuktu. Why do you care whether it's successful in Atlanta?

I certainly don't care if Hamilton, Quebec City, Las Vegas or Kansas City ever get a team.

I'm much more interested in the financials of a team like Atlanta, plans on how to make them competitive and improve their top line (as in revenues) while remaining in Atlanta.

Actually, I would have thought that fans in places that appear financially vulnerable would be at the front of the line advocating for expansion into promising markets, or even relocation of other teams to those locations. As long as there are open arenas with owners willing to pay a good price for a team, they give the NHL an option for relocation. So, for example, if TNSE/Winnipeg was offered an expansion team tomorrow, it would reduce the risk of relocation of an existing franchise. In a more contentious vein, if the Coyotes are relocated to Winnipeg, it probably reduces the probability of an Atlanta relocation somewhat. As long as the NHL has a viable open market like Winnipeg (and soon Quebec?), with a strong owner willing to pay full market price, the risk of relocation for struggling franchises remains that much higher. Close out relocation destination options and it will force the NHL to work that much harder to retain franchises where they are.

See, in the end, everybody is on the same side.

 

[Confucius]

If there is a leafs game being played on a saturday night, would an Argonauts v Bombers played at the same time sell out?

They wouldn't sellout if there was nothing else going on..

 

[AllByDesign]

If there is a leafs game being played on a saturday night, would an Argonauts v Bombers played at the same time sell out?

Trick question. The Argo's play in a Stadium that can hold 50,000 + people. The Argo's never sell out.