ATD2011 Thomas D. Green Final: (2) Guelph Platers vs. (5) Cincinnati Fireworks

[markrander87]

While comparing teams in the ATD playoffs we look at a combination of playoffs,regular season and international play.... Do or do we not?

Some other GM please verify this as BC is having a very tough time grasping this concept.

Somebody respond to this please

 

[jarek]

Somebody respond to this please

I already did. Not my fault you can't read. :/

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He sucked so hard relative to regular seasons that I feel like it came down to much more than this.

Eh probably. Thornton doesn't seem to hate to lose like other players. Still, it's a lot easier to defend a guy when you know he'll never shoot...

 

[BraveCanadian]

I already did. Not my fault you can't read. :/

He doesn't seem to see anything in this thread unless it reinforces what he wants to hear.

 

[markrander87]

Some players perform as well in the playoffs as in the regular season. Unless you're a Marleau, a Thornton, or a Sedin, and on and on. The playoffs get harder, not the same.

The worst teams are not in the playoffs, the better teams are in.
Not much padding of the stats against weaklings for the most part.

Therefore even producing the same in the playoffs is harder, not the same, in general.

But the point is we don't know about your second line, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt. The evidence that we DO have about your players in the playoffs is that they did not produce offense.

Your biggest contributor to all the finishes you are so proudly trotting out is the guy who scored 1 goal and 8 points in 21 games in the playoffs. ie. Ronty was virtually a complete non-factor. Now who has the playmaking problem?

I guess you must be some 75 year old senile imbecile not to understand that during his best playmaking seasons he didnt play in the playoffs.

 

[markrander87]

I already did. Not my fault you can't read. :/

Simply say yes or no.

Thanks

 

[jarek]

Eh probably. Thornton doesn't seem to hate to lose like other players. Still, it's a lot easier to defend a guy when you know he'll never shoot...

Henrik Sedin has also re-inforced this a bit as well. There are definitely guys who sort of break this idea, though, like Frank Boucher.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Both playoffs and top-10s on their own are really too narrow offensive metrics here.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I guess you must be some 75 year old senile imbecile not to understand that during his best playmaking seasons he didnt play in the playoffs.

If BC was 75 years old, wouldn't he remember Ronty's playoff situation? And if he was senile, wouldn't it be just like yesterday? Heh.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I guess you must be some 75 year old senile imbecile not to understand that during his best playmaking seasons he didnt play in the playoffs.

Then, your pathetic personal attacks aside, we don't know what he would have done in the playoffs do we?

The Sedins won the last two Art Ross trophies and look at them so far in their post season careers.

Regular season play =/= Playoff performance. I'm sorry you can't wrap your head around this.. it is either a huge questionmark for your second line or a big negative depending on how people value proven playoffs.

 

[markrander87]

I could care less about the Sedins and I could care less about Joe Thornton, all three of them played in the playoffs during their primes.


Out of Lizenbergers 4 top 10 in goal seasons his team played in the playoffs once where he scored 8 points in 6 games.


With all things considered (Playoffs,regular season,chemistry) Im not even sure i'd give the Platters an edge at all. We have the better chemistry and our regular season finishes are at least twice as good as theirs.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I could care less about the Sedins and I could care less about Joe Thornton, all three of them played in the playoffs during their primes.

Of course you have to downplay players who peaked as even better regular season producers than your second line but fumbled in the playoffs, I understand.

 

[markrander87]

Of course you have to downplay players who peaked as even better regular season producers than your second line but fumbled in the playoffs, I understand.

It's painfully obvious that BC's strategy from the very start was to draft a team strictly based on their playoff totals and come playoff time do exactly which he is doing and try and completely disregard regular season play.


It's too bad for him that in the ATD we take everything (Regular Season, Playoff, International Tournaments etc..) into play and his teams total resume just simply don't add up.

 

[jarek]

It's painfully obvious that BC's strategy from the very start was to draft a team strictly based on their playoff totals and come playoff time do exactly which he is doing and try and completely disregard regular season play.


It's too bad for him that in the ATD we take everything (Regular Season, Playoff, International Tournaments etc..) into play and his teams total resume just simply don't add up.

I don't think everyone takes international tournaments as seriously as they necessarily should. Jarome Iginla and Mats Sundin, for example, have excellent international resumes that add meaningful value to their legacies.. but nobody really talks about that.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's painfully obvious that BC's strategy from the very start was to draft a team strictly based on their playoff totals and come playoff time do exactly which he is doing and try and completely disregard regular season play.


It's too bad for him that in the ATD we take everything (Regular Season, Playoff, International Tournaments etc..) into play and his teams total resume just simply don't add up.

My strategy was to draft the best team I could. Not on an individual basis but as a team.

You're damn right I paid attention to their playoff performances when doing so.

I imagine most people here value how players performed in the playoffs more than the regular season. I passed over players with flashier regular season totals for players I knew I could count on when it was crunch time. I made a team that Al Arbour would fit coaching.

You're just sour now that you have a big blank spot exposed in the performance of a 2nd line you've been trying to up sell the entire draft. You stacked your first unit and pairing and thought you could up sell your second line.

Is my team perfect? No of course not, it's a 40 team draft.. everyone has imperfections here and there. But with my team and its leadership, I know what I am going to get - every game, every series.

 

[markrander87]

My strategy was to draft the best team I could. Not on an individual basis but as a team.

You're damn right I paid attention to their playoff performances when doing so.

I imagine most people here value how players performed in the playoffs more than the regular season. I passed over players with flashier regular season totals for players I knew I could count on when it was crunch time. I made a team that Al Arbour would fit coaching.

You're just sour now that you have a big blank spot exposed in the performance of a 2nd line you've been trying to up sell the entire draft. You stacked your first unit and pairing and thought you could up sell your second line.

Is my team perfect? No of course not, it's a 40 team draft.. everyone has imperfections here and there. But with my team and its leadership, I know what I am going to get - every game, every series.

You're damn right your team has holes. Ramsey on a top pairing has to be the biggest hole on any team remaining in the playoffs. Sorry to break it to you but that 2nd line was just poorly built. Terrible playmaking, Robert as your puck winner, Ogrodnick must of been a panic pick because he serves zero purpose. Talk about panic picks Yuri Lebedev on a 3rd line trying to pass as a pure "grinder" is almost as bad as Ramsey. Add in your very underwhelming PP and lets not forget Good old Gary roberts "Player Conditioning Coach" or whatever your calling him and it's a miracle your team is still around.

Take into consideration my "stacked" first unit as you already called them and this should be a no brainer for the voters.

 

[Leafs Forever]

You're damn right your team has holes. Ramsey on a top pairing has to be the biggest hole on any team remaining in the playoffs. Sorry to break it to you but that 2nd line was just poorly built. Terrible playmaking, Robert as your puck winner, Ogrodnick must of been a panic pick because he serves zero purpose. Talk about panic picks Yuri Lebedev on a 3rd line trying to pass as a pure "grinder" is almost as bad as Ramsey. Add in your very underwhelming PP and lets not forget Good old Gary roberts "Player Conditioning Coach" or whatever your calling him and it's a miracle your team is still around.

Take into consideration my "stacked" first unit as you already called them and this should be a no brainer for the voters.

What's the issue with Robert as a puck winner? He serves that role well on the famous and successful French Connection line, no?

As addressed, Gary Roberts as a conditioning coach really serves no detriment whatsoever. Everything other specific point is valid at a glance.

Though I can't say I care much for comments, on either side, about the other team still being around, or that its a "no brainer". It seems disrespectful, and arrogance like in the actual playoffs is why upsets happen.

 

[markrander87]

What's the issue with Robert as a puck winner? He serves that role well on the famous and successful French Connection line, no?

As addressed, Gary Roberts as a conditioning coach really serves no detriment whatsoever. Everything other specific point is valid at a glance.

Though I can't say I care much for comments, on either side, about the other team still being around, or that its a "no brainer". It seems disrespectful, and arrogance like in the actual playoffs is why upsets happen.

It's pretty funny that 99% of your posts revolve around jumping on everything I say.

Robert is suppose to be the puckwinner and playmaker on the line....how is that not an issue? Not to mention Robert had his playmaking totals boosted by playing on the French Connection line (And they are still poor)

70's already addressed Roberts. How could it not be a negative? Do players just stop getting injured once the playoffs start? Whats the point of drafting spares in the first place then? While he was drafting his "player coach" I picked up Marc savard who if needed could fill at least the 2nd or 3rd line spot.

Please stop telling me what I can or can't say on this public forum, if you haven't noticed by now I could really care less on what you deem to be disrespectful etc.. Who cares. What are you trying to accomplish by these posts? Do you want some sort of apology or something?

 

[seventieslord]

Yeah, I do think Roberts is a detriment. If the 25th pick wasn't going to serve any purpose, then we would make 24 picks. If another team has a functional assistant coach, or an 8th defenseman/14th forward instead of the extremely little Roberts provides, then they're ahead in that regard. Ahead by very little? Sure, we're talking about the 25th-most important picks on a team. But still ahead.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Gary Roberts is clearly there to sell tickets. Come on guys, it's not like Guelph is a big market, and they still need to make enough money to pay for Lebedev's English lessons.

 

[BraveCanadian]

It's pretty funny that 99% of your posts revolve around jumping on everything I say.

Robert is suppose to be the puckwinner and playmaker on the line....how is that not an issue? Not to mention Robert had his playmaking totals boosted by playing on the French Connection line (And they are still poor)

If you are going to start down the "he played with" road, I am going to start saying the same thing about certain players of yours who played with Harvey, Plante, Richard, Beliveau on dynasty clubs - which no doubt inflated their totals fairly substantially compared to playing for the Sabres.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Gary Roberts is clearly there to sell tickets. Come on guys, it's not like Guelph is a big market, and they still need to make enough money to pay for Lebedev's English lessons.

And don't forget the eye of the tiger!

 

[BraveCanadian]

Yeah, I do think Roberts is a detriment. If the 25th pick wasn't going to serve any purpose, then we would make 24 picks. If another team has a functional assistant coach, or an 8th defenseman/14th forward instead of the extremely little Roberts provides, then they're ahead in that regard. Ahead by very little? Sure, we're talking about the 25th-most important picks on a team. But still ahead.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/james_duthie/?id=335457

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...s-and-others-thrive-with-Roberts-regimen.html

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/neal-to-get-summer-training-from-gary-ro.html

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...red-gary-roberts-off-season-training-regimen/



I admit it was a fun pick but, as an assistant coach type of value, it was certainly not worthless.

We talk all the time about how much better trained and conditioned the players today are.. then they go to Gary Roberts and even though they are supposedly so much better trained, they get their ***** kicked.

There is in shape and then there is in Gary Roberts shape.

 

[markrander87]

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/james_duthie/?id=335457

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articl...s-and-others-thrive-with-Roberts-regimen.html

http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/05/neal-to-get-summer-training-from-gary-ro.html

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...red-gary-roberts-off-season-training-regimen/



I admit it was a fun pick but, as an assistant coach type of value, it was certainly not worthless.

We talk all the time about how much better trained and conditioned the players today are.. then they go to Gary Roberts and even though they are supposedly so much better trained, they get their ***** kicked.

There is in shape and then there is in Gary Roberts shape.

Please do not try and justify that pick it makes it that much more foolish.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Please do not try and justify that pick it makes it that much more foolish.

Ah, mark, you and your stories...