ATD2011 Milt Dunnell Cup Final: Regina Pats vs. Ottawa Senators

[VanIslander]

Early in MLD2010 you said "you won't catch me stopping Peplinski, Barnes, Norstrom, K. Jonsson from free falling right through the MLD"

It was in ATD2010 I recall or earlier (via PM with you?). The context I recall was about UNDESERVING all-time draft picks.

Then by the time the 4th line of the MLD 2010 came around Peplinski looked pretty good with his playoff experience, hard work and leadership. I drafted him in a starting Bottom-6 role in MLD 2010 and you praised me for the pick (as did someone else).

You said seventieslord, right after I drafted Peplinski, and I quote exactly: "He dropped and dropped and dropped so far, that he was actually a great pick when he was taken. I never thought I'd see the draft that happened!"

My Texas Brahmas' Bottom-6 in MLD 2010:

Jack Marks - Billy Reay - Mike Keane (A)
Joe Juneau - Terry Ruskowski - Jim Peplinski

Peplinski scored 14 playoff points in their 1986 Stanley Cup run and 107 PIMs that Finals-reached postseason playing on Lanny's line, the third year of Peplinski's five year co-captaincy. He was too important for too long to overlook by the time of the MLD 4th line. I had previously made too much of Crisp not dressing him in their 1989 Stanley Cup final victory. He isn't a 28-team ATD calibre guy but a 4th line MLDer. But in a 40-team draft he could make an impact at 4th line rw (though extra skater would be better, sharing the role with someone with more skating and puck skills).

You thought Peplinski would make a good MLD captain as you directed shawnmullin to consider him for that role for his Trail Smoke Eaters back in ATD12, so you appreciate his leadership qualities. I do too in a FOURTH line role at most in a 40 team draft. Go back to 28 teams and there are plenty better. He is not the most deserving pick in ATD 2011 but man to have him on your squad in battles against Albertan rival Messier is just too good! I recall those two goin' at it many times back in the day. THAT is what I was thinking when mentioning the guy in praising overpass for a great squad.

 

[seventieslord]

It was in ATD2010 I recall or earlier (via PM with you?). The context I recall was about UNDESERVING all-time draft picks.

Then by the time the 4th line of the MLD 2010 came around Peplinski looked pretty good with his playoff experience, hard work and leadership. I drafted him in a starting Bottom-6 role in MLD 2010 and you praised me for the pick (as did someone else).

You said seventieslord, right after I drafted Peplinski, and I quote exactly: "He dropped and dropped and dropped so far, that he was actually a great pick when he was taken. I never thought I'd see the draft that happened!"

My Texas Brahmas' Bottom-6 in MLD 2010:

Jack Marks - Billy Reay - Mike Keane (A)
Joe Juneau - Terry Ruskowski - Jim Peplinski

Peplinski scored 14 playoff points in their 1986 Stanley Cup run and 107 PIMs that Finals-reached postseason playing on Lanny's line, the third year of Peplinski's five year co-captaincy. He was too important for too long to overlook by the time of the MLD 4th line. I had previously made too much of Crisp not dressing him in their 1989 Stanley Cup final victory. He isn't a 28-team ATD calibre guy but a 4th line MLDer. But in a 40-team draft he could make an impact at 4th line rw (though extra skater would be better, sharing the role with someone with more skating and puck skills).

You thought Peplinski would make a good MLD captain as you directed shawnmullin to consider him for that role for his Trail Smoke Eaters back in ATD12, so you appreciate his leadership qualities. I do too in a FOURTH line role at most in a 40 team draft. Go back to 28 teams and there are plenty better. He is not the most deserving pick in ATD 2011 but man to have him on your squad in battles against Albertan rival Messier is just too good! I recall those two goin' at it many times back in the day. THAT is what I was thinking when mentioning the guy in praising overpass for a great squad.

It looks like at the start of the MLD you saw fit to let him fall right through, but by the end you realized what I said at the start - that he would be a good 4th liner. Fair enough, minds can change. I'm glad that they can. I also agree that I'd pass if there are 28 teams, but if there are 40 that means we need 48 more RWs (24 more bottom-6 types) and he's worthy. Thank you for the clarification.

 

[seventieslord]

To be honest coming into the playoffs I had neither of these two teams particularly high on my list and actually voted against each a few times earlier in the playoffs (for instance I actually thought overpass would struggle with the strength down the middle of chaosrevolver's Nighbor/Schmidt combo) but the further they went the more I realized how good they were, especially your squad 70s. Your arguments, especially inthe Dreakmur series, made me realize how good your team really was, because coming into that series I had his team a pretty decent amount higher on my list. But you argued very convincingly and most importantly fairly and changed my mind. I don't think anyone deserved to win the ATD title more than you.

thank you, I appreciate that.

I thought the best point I sent in your direction this draft was regarding Esposito and Durnan, earlier in this series. What were your thoughts on that? I personally thought it was convincing.

 

[vecens24]

thank you, I appreciate that.

I thought the best point I sent in your direction this draft was regarding Esposito and Durnan, earlier in this series. What were your thoughts on that? I personally thought it was convincing.

I totally missed that until I went back through the thread yesterday actually so it's really funny you brought that up haha. It was convincing. I'm actually the guy who believes the 40s goalies are weaker than they appear, as I said in one of TDMM's series where he was trying to sell Gardiner, who I actually agree with TDMM gets underrated.

Part of the problem with Tony O in my opinion is that 70s goalies were weak in general in my view. When Chico Resch and Don Edwards are the 4th and 5th best goalies of the era, that is a definite weakness in the era. I'd say a guy like Vanbiesbrouck is probably better than them, and he was what, the 7th best or so of that era? Whenever you're competing against only two guys every year really (Parent and Dryden), I think it becomes easier to win All-Star recognition. However, Espo certainly has the longevity that Durnan doesn't have so it is certainly much closer than it initially appeared to me. Also, for Espo to get the recognition he did over two goalies who in my view are clearly better than he is makes me defintiely believe he's better than initially appeared. So it's a tough argument. Esposito is defintiely closer to Durnan than he is further away. And I also am starting to believe that Gardiner should probably be recognized ahead of the 40s goalies because I think a lot of their recognition is artificially high due to the weakness of the skaters in that era. Vezina possibly as well, but I'll need more convincing on that one.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Congrats for finally winning the thing, 70s.

You had arguably the best first unit in the draft. I actually think your first unit was the best overall in the draft if you exclude goaltending. Including goaltending, I liked mine just a little better.

I also think you had the best defense in the draft 1-6.

I was really expecting the fact that you relied way too much on Turgeon as a catalyst for secondary scoring to be your downfall, but obviously it wasn't.

This ATD, people went for the team with standout strengths and one noticeable weakness over the team(s) with lesser weaknesses but also lesser strengths.

 

[seventieslord]

Part of the problem with Tony O in my opinion is that 70s goalies were weak in general in my view. When Chico Resch and Don Edwards are the 4th and 5th best goalies of the era, that is a definite weakness in the era.

It's definitely a lot tricker than that, though.

First off, if the answers to this question are Resch and Edwards, they are actually 8th and 9th, as there's no way they are better than Tretiak and Holecek, or Cheevers and Vachon, for that matter (who can all legitimately be called "70s goalies")

secondly, are they even 70s goalies? It is really tough to pigeonhole them into an era. Resch had his best two years in the 70s, but played until 1987. Edwards' career is perfectly split between the two decades.

Looking at others, you have guys like Giacomin, Worsley, and to a lesser extent Plante, who were factors in the earlier part of the decade.

I'd say a guy like Vanbiesbrouck is probably better than them, and he was what, the 7th best or so of that era?

Beezer is no doubt better than them, and I think his accolades make that quite clear without further analysis of the era.

As for where beezer ranks and among whom, that is tough too. which "generation" of goalies does he fit in with?

Whenever you're competing against only two guys every year really (Parent and Dryden), I think it becomes easier to win All-Star recognition.

And Worsley/Hall/Plante/Cheevers in 1970, and Cheevers/Vachon for the rest of his career.

 

[Leaf Lander]

congrats to seventieslord for finally rigging it so he could win lol

 

[EagleBelfour]

I also think you had the best defense in the draft 1-6.

Maybe in term of overall balance, but overall they don't have a better defence than mine.

congrats to seventieslord for finally rigging it so he could win lol

Can't wait until we discover Seventies was VanI's puppet all along

In all seriousness, congratulation on your nice victory. I havn't followed the playoff at all, but at first look, you indeed had a terrific team.

 

[Reds4Life]

I thought overpass had the better team, and I voted for him. But still, 70s had a great team too! Congratulations on winning the MDC

 

[BenchBrawl]

congrats