ATD 2011 Lineup Advice Thread

[jarek]

I'm changing my defense to this:

Lester Patrick - Earl Seibert
Frank Patrick - Terry Harper

I think this will bring better balance to my lineup.

 

[BillyShoe1721]

Do people think I should pair Langway with Howell or have Howell with Gonchar on my second pairing and draft a defenseman to play on the first pairing with Langway?

 

[hungryhungryhippy]

Do people think I should pair Langway with Howell or have Howell with Gonchar on my second pairing and draft a defenseman to play on the first pairing with Langway?

I would definitely keep Howell with Gonchar, because that's a great second pairing and Howell is one of the most solid defensemen in the draft, so he makes a good partner for Gonchar. I was really sold on your whole "shut-down first pairing" pitch. So I would just pick the best defensive responsible blue-liner to play with Langway. That gives you the best balance imo, because otherwise you would be stacking your quality defensemen on one pairing, and that pairing would be a pure shut down pairing that isn't dynamic enough to play in all sorts of situations. With the set up you have now, you can still have a pretty good shut down top pairing with Langway + any run of the mill competent defenseman, but you also have a very good second pairing that can play almost as many minutes.

I like your defense, lol.

 

[Sturminator]

Just a quick note, I have decided to make a small change to Gwinnett's first unit powerplay. We will now field the following first unit:

Frank Boucher - Dany Heatley - Frank Fredrickson

Paul Coffey - George Boucher

I have become convinced that Fredrickson is a better all-around offensive player than Foyston, and deserves a spot on the top unit. They're close in goalscoring, but Fredrickson is by far the better playmaker of the two, and his size will also help to protect the puck on the man advantage.

The entire unit is composed of left-handed shooters, which is actually beneficial in this situation because both of the left-side players (F. Boucher and Paul Coffey) are much stronger playmakers than shooters, and are therefore better off playing their "on" wing. Heatley's left-handedness as the slot guy is a benefit here, as well, because the lion's share of the playmaking will be coming from the left side of the ice (F. Boucher and Coffey), putting Heatley in the correct shooting position for one-timers.

Smith, Foyston and Laperriere will form the core of the second powerplay unit.

 

[MadArcand]

So who takes the draws there, Boucher or Fredrickson?

 

[Derick*]

Is Heatley in the middle an era?

Heatley's a career ~40%-45% in the circle and can't backcheck or stickhandle around a person to save his life. I wouldn't use him as a center.

 

[Sturminator]

Is Heatley in the middle an era?

Heatley's a career ~40%-45% in the circle and can't backcheck or stickhandle around a person to save his life. I wouldn't use him as a center.

It's a powerplay formation, though your typing error is appropriate as he is, in a sense, sandwiched "in the middle of an era". Heatley is obviously not going to be the primary puckcarrier when they're moving the puck up ice (he'll play the left wing in transition with Boucher as the center), but he is going to play essentially in the middle of the ice (in front of the goal) once they get set up in the zone.

And don't overstate Heatley's defensive indifference. He's an average backchecker at even strength, not a ghost. As far as taking the draws is concerned...I dunno. Specific information about intangibles like faceoff strength is basically nonexistent from Boucher and Fredrickson's time, one area in which modern players have an unfair advantage. My gut tells me to go with Fredrickson on the draws because of his size/strength advantage, but I really haven't made up my mind.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I honestly never read this thread actively, but insomnia will make me comment on the last few pages:

Northey Division: Detroit Falcons - Big fan of the defense, It'll be a tough time for oppositions forwards to breakthrough these guys. Flaman was a bone crushing hitter, Harvey is an elite defenseman and Chara's size is used to his advantage.

Thank You! This draft, my priority is selecting players I want to research, and then looking to build a good team. I won't lie that I like the feel of my defence, but I will be a little thin on forwards, and still need a backstopper.

I will say that Eagle's defence being in my division sucks, that will be the best defence in the draft for sure but I have the forwards to combat it. HArvey and Corbeau will have their hands full with Shutt-Morenz-xxxx, Chara and Flaman aren't going to be able to use their usual tricks against Leclair-Lindros-xxxxx.

Thank you again! And most definitely, there's some very good forwards in our division. I will also need all the skills my defence can provide me to combat TDMM Richard's brother, Modo's first very skillful line and Joe Malone among others. As for your team, I won't lie that the plan is to play Chara against Lindros, and it will be the same thing if we meet in the playoffs. Beware!

Last point: My top-4 will be Harvey-Flaman / Chara-Corbeau. I wouldn't want Corbeau to play #1 minute at ES. Chara bring elite defensive ability and elite toughness/strenght with adequate offense at ES. Corbeau bring elite toughness/strenght with adequate offense and average defense on that line.

Nah, everyone is smart enough to understand that there's only 8-10 players selected per team and that alot can change until the reat of the draft, like me ending up with Ron Tugnutt in goal.

I disagree that Roberts lacks muscle. He was very big for his era.

But I'm honestly considering rolling 3 lines and spreading two of these guys out per line.

- Indeed, Roberts is a definite physical presence on that Top-6

I'm trying to find a way to utilize That top-6 to their full potential, but I also have a hard time placing them together. I feel like there's too much goalscorer and not enough great playmaker to pass them the puck. If you want to roll 3 lines, even then none of these guys should be on a defensive line, so you have to throw the ATD cannon out by the window. You roll three offensive line and play a run-and-gun style of game. If you do so:

Moore - Stastny - Makarov (This is a perfect line, and clear #1)
Roberts - XXX - Cournoyer (You find the best playmaker available for Cournoyer, who will run the line. In the offensive zone, you have an adequate glue-guy in Roberts who can outmuscle is opponent to retrieve the puck and good enough to score goals)
XXX - Bowie - XXX (A damn elite third line center, and you focus all your attention to get Bowie the puck. You want Bowie to think 'scoring goal' and let the winger retrieve the puck in the corner, do the defensive choir and put the puc on his sticks)

It's a sticky problem. Bourque - Bathgate would be easily the best point tandem in the league. I don't have to go to the roster thread and check; it is one of the best point tandems anyone could possibly assemble. It would likely be the best point tandem in a ten team ATD. So you've got that.

But I do think having a puckhandler down low is important. Without one, teams will cheat heavily on your pointmen, which is a big, glowing Do Not Want in your situation.

Pretty much that. I think a strong PK would have an easier time stopping your PP if they can concentrate their effort on your two pointman. I wouldn't mind seeing Bathgate on the right side, but he definitely has an elite pointshot. You could also separate them and use them on two separate PP, but it's my least favourite option.

Looking a few post down, I agree again with Sturm that Ullman and Dunderdale is not a bad start of a 1st PP unit. Find the best PP guy you can find for them, and keep Bourque and Bathgate at the point.

So what do you guys think of my top-4?
Frank Patrick - Earl Seibert
Lester Patrick - Terry Harper

I need to be sold that Frank is good enough to play 1st minute at ES. At first, I thought Lester- Seibert / Frank - Harper made more sense. Can you elaborate on those pairing?

Lidstrom is a great anchor on defense. The question is - how do you play on using him? You probably want him to go against your opponents top lines, but that limits the ice time he can play with Gretzky. Unless you want to go strength on strength. Definitely something to think about.

I thought there was no question that Gretzky and Lidstrom would play with each other as much as possible. Playing strenght vs. strenght is absolutely the way to go in this case (IMO).

I'm changing my defense to this:

Lester Patrick - Earl Seibert
Frank Patrick - Terry Harper

I think this will bring better balance to my lineup.

Oh well!

Do people think I should pair Langway with Howell or have Howell with Gonchar on my second pairing and draft a defenseman to play on the first pairing with Langway?

Howell and Gonchar is the way to go IMO. When you draft players like Phil Housley or Sergei Gonchar, you want them to be pair up with one way, stay-at-home defenceman, like Howell, Hitchman or Wentworth, so you don't lose on any offense other two-way defenceman could of bring (like Lidstrom or Harvey etc ...). At last, you don't want Gonchar playing #1 minute at ES.

 

[jarek]

In my readings, I find that Frank Patrick was at his peak, every bit as good as Lester. The only difference between Frank and Lester to me at this point is that Lester played twice as long.

 

[EagleBelfour]

In my readings, I find that Frank Patrick was at his peak, every bit as good as Lester. The only difference between Frank and Lester to me at this point is that Lester played twice as long.

Would be nice if you put this in a biography and share it with everyone. And didn't Lester beat his brother on AS spot when they played at the same time?

 

[jarek]

Would be nice if you put this in a biography and share it with everyone. And didn't Lester beat his brother on AS spot when they played at the same time?

Not really. Frank played 4 full PCHA seasons, 2 of them he got 1st AS team and 1 of them no AS teams have been recorded (on SIHR). There is only one season he failed to make the AS team, 1912-1913, which I find very odd, because he led the PCHA in assists and was first in defense scoring that season.

 

[EagleBelfour]

Not really. Frank played 4 full PCHA seasons, 2 of them he got 1st AS team and 1 of them no AS teams have been recorded (on SIHR). There is only one season he failed to make the AS team, 1912-1913, which I find very odd, because he led the PCHA in assists and was first in defense scoring that season.

Which would follow the trend that his brother was a better defensive player. Anyway, looking forward to an unbiased biography on Frank, as I know significantly more on Lester than him.

 

[jarek]

Which would follow the trend that his brother was a better defensive player. Anyway, looking forward to an unbiased biography on Frank, as I know significantly more on Lester than him.

I don't think you're giving me a fair chance here. I feel like you already have some kind of pre-conceived notion of what my biography will look like with the word unbiased in there. I can only report what I find.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I don't think you're giving me a fair chance here. I feel like you already have some kind of pre-conceived notion of what my biography will look like with the word unbiased in there. I can only report what I find.

I actually do, sorry about that. I still got a bad taste in my mouth about he Denneny bio/discussion, which was surely involuntary of your part. You don't deserve the 'unbiased' remark I did wrote.

 

[jarek]

I actually do, sorry about that. I still got a bad taste in my mouth about he Denneny bio/discussion, which was surely involuntary of your part. You don't deserve the 'unbiased' remark I did wrote.

I'll admit that some of the Denneny stuff wasn't the best, but I did try to correct it later. I think I did a way better job with the Keats bio, personally. I'll try to do an even better job with the Patricks.

 

[EagleBelfour]

I'll admit that some of the Denneny stuff wasn't the best, but I did try to correct it later. I think I did a way better job with the Keats bio, personally. I'll try to do an even better job with the Patricks.

I'll admit that the discussion on Keats was far more unbias/informative to me. But I was rooting for you, I love Duke Keats.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Moore - Stastny - Makarov (This is a perfect line, and clear #1)

My problem with this line is that you are really wasting Makarov's playmaking by using him as a pure shooter (which you would playing next to two excellent playmakers in Moore and Stastny).

I view Makarov as a very balanced offensive player, ideally. Krutov was the "pure shooter / net crasher" on KLM.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Nels Stewart-Ron Francis-Dave Taylor
XXXXXXX-Bernie Morris-Martin St. Louis

Does this appease the naysayers of my previous top line?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Nels Stewart-Ron Francis-Dave Taylor
XXXXXXX-Bernie Morris-Martin St. Louis

Does this appease the naysayers of my previous top line?

I think it's much better chemistry than you had before. Francis and Taylor are a bit below par as first line talents go, but the balance and chemistry of these lines are very good, I think.

Edit: Pending how you finish off your second line, of course.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

It appears that we have our top two forward lines set...

Alexander Ovechkin - Sergei Fedorov - Daniel Alfredsson
Paul Thompson - Jeremy Roenick - Mark Recchi


Any comments or critiques?

 

[Sturminator]

It appears that we have our top two forward lines set...

Alexander Ovechkin - Sergei Fedorov - Daniel Alfredsson
Paul Thompson - Jeremy Roenick - Mark Recchi

Lots of two-way talent. These lines will be tough to play against. You don't really have any real high-end physical presence or puckwinners on these units, but you've got guys with enough size and grit that I think you can do puckwinning by committee and be ok in most circumstances. Real hard-core power cycling teams might give these lines trouble, though. Overall, a very nice mix of players.

 

[raleh]

I need some help with my Luce-Gare line. Do I try to find a lesser version of Ramsay and create a solid two way line? Or should I just try to go with the best offensive LW available regardless of defensive awareness and let them be a scoring line with some defensive abilities?

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I need some help with my Luce-Gare line. Do I try to find a lesser version of Ramsay and create a solid two way line? Or should I just try to go with the best offensive LW available regardless of defensive awareness and let them be a scoring line with some defensive abilities?

Tough one. Danny Gare is good enough offensively to be a two-way presence on a scoring line, definitely. But Luce probably doesn't have enough offensive upside to be counted on as a scoring line center at this level, I don't think

You don't draft Don Luce this early and not match him against the opponent's best. So I would get a left wing with at least some form of defensive ability, though offensive upside is always nice.

Sorry if that's vague.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Lots of two-way talent. These lines will be tough to play against. You don't really have any real high-end physical presence or puckwinners on these units, but you've got guys with enough size and grit that I think you can do puckwinning by committee and be ok in most circumstances. Real hard-core power cycling teams might give these lines trouble, though. Overall, a very nice mix of players.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[VanIslander]

Put Luce on your 3rd line where he belongs and draft one of the bonafide scoring line centers rermaining.