ATD 2011 Draft Thread V

[jarek]

Ok, now I am extremely confused. What makes me a detractor of league strength affecting scoring?

"Player X played in a weaker league, so his scoring finishes suck compared to player Y."

 

[Dreakmur]

What makes me a detractor of league strength affecting scoring?

Oh no he didn't!

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Damn, I wanted Babe Pratt at 280. Guess that was far fetched - he's a legit #2 in this.

 

[markrander87]

Sorry about the delay fellas, was at the cottage with the gf. This seems like a bit of a rushed pick but i'll go with C/RW Ed Litzenberger to start off our 2nd line

 

[BM67]

As for Fredrickson's PCHA all stars, that's odd, because SIHR has nothing on his ASTs (which I also find odd). Where did BM67 get this information?

EDIT: Ah, The Trail. OK, fair enough.

The Trail lists the full teams for a couple of years, and gives some more info in bios, but for the most part the info comes from Total Hockey.

One thing to be aware of is the extra guys listed for many years, which seems to be from the teams including subs for some later years. We really need to track down articles that give the full teams to clear up positions. Being a 1st team sub and being a 1st team center are not quite equal.

 

[seventieslord]

"Player X played in a weaker league, so his scoring finishes suck compared to player Y."

oh, ok, so you just think "detractor" means the opposite of what it actually does, then. That makes sense.

 

[DaveG]

The Garnish Phantoms select: Left Winger Kevin Stevens

1990-91 2nd team All Star
1991-92 1st team All Star
1992-93 2nd team All Star

#2 in the NHL in goals created in 1991-92

2 time Stanley Cup Champion
726 points and 1470 PIMs in 874 regular season games
106 points and 170s PIMs in 103 playoff games

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Heh. Obviously Pratt was a crappy golfer, but I'm not sure what that's supposed to say about his intelligence. At any rate, Frank Frederickson seems to have been a quite explosive athlete - big, strong and fast.

.

I just finished Babe Pratt's profile and the impression I get is a man who had all the physical tools to be the best player in the league, and someone who played like the best player in the league... sometimes. Especially check out the first bolded quote about how Pratt had the ability to keep play hemmed in the opponent's zone and his goalie's GAA was guaranteed to drop as a result... when he was at his best.

Seems like Pratt had the ability to dominate games at both sides... but he didn't always have his head together.

It seems he was extremely highly thought of by people who appreciated natural talent, as he seems to have gotten enough votes to finish at the bottom of the THN Top 100 list in 1998 (I wouldn't have him in my top 100 or else I would have drafted him higher).

I think the days where Pratt was drafted in the top 120 (let alone 150) are rightfully over, but I am extremely pleased to have him as a #3.

Damn, I wanted Babe Pratt at 280. Guess that was far fetched - he's a legit #2 in this.

He'd be a fairly low-end #2 since his Hart Trophy was during a war year. But I'm extremely happy to have him as a #3.

Don't worry, Eric Lindros will see a lot of him when our teams play each other.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The Garnish Phantoms select: Left Winger Kevin Stevens

1990-91 2nd team All Star
1991-92 1st team All Star
1992-93 2nd team All Star

#2 in the NHL in goals created in 1991-92

2 time Stanley Cup Champion
726 points and 1470 PIMs in 874 regular season games
106 points and 170s PIMs in 103 playoff games

Not a bad power forward to pick up at this point, but "goals created" is a useless stat IMO.

 

[Velociraptor]

The Cleveland Barons are pleased to select...

Nikolai Sologubov, D

Position: Defenseman
HT/WT: 5'10", 180
Shoots: Left
Nickname: "The Russian Bobby Orr."

- Named best defenseman at the World Championships
- Member of the IIHF Hockey Hall of Fame
- Won Olympic Gold in 1956, Bronze in 1960

Sologubov fell over 60 spots in ATD2011

Next manager notified.

 

[overpass]

Thanks for the respose, Johnny. It's hard to say more without mentioning undrafted players. I'll just say that Larmers centres had their best years while playing with him. I think Larmer was a very complete and underrated player.

How far back do you go as a hockey fan, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[markrander87]

Any thoughts on moving Sittler to the 2nd line and going with Olmstead-Litzenberger-Geoffrion

 

[DaveG]

Not a bad power forward to pick up at this point, but "goals created" is a useless stat IMO.

Noted. Mind you I like getting more info then the traditional statistics, but I'm still trying to figure out which ones are the best ones to use and which ones are garbage.

To be sure though, during his peak he was a legit top notch PF as his all star nods indicate. I'd think most of us are old enough to have seen him in his prime to verify this.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

He'd be a fairly low-end #2 since his Hart Trophy was during a war year. But I'm extremely happy to have him as a #3.

Don't worry, Eric Lindros will see a lot of him when our teams play each other.

He would also be my #3, but he could hold his own as a teams #2 in a 40 team league. He is a great #3 thats for sure.

 

[Velociraptor]

Any thoughts on moving Sittler to the 2nd line and going with Olmstead-Litzenberger-Geoffrion

Well as you can probably tell, Litzenberger is a much weaker #1 center than Sittler, and Sittler isn't even among elite company.

 

[markrander87]

Well as you can probably tell, Litzenberger is a much weaker #1 center than Sittler, and Sittler isn't even among elite company.

You have to look at the line as a whole tough. Almost every team in this have at least one first liner who is usually suited as a 2nd liner. One of the many changes for having a 40 team league (Although Litzenberger was used as a 1st liner last year with much lesser linemates)

 

[Derick*]

I like "goals created" for comparing forwards to other positions because multiple points are given out per goal, so 1 point does not equal 1 goal. But diving points by ~2.75 would have the same affect without undervaluing assists.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

You have to look at the line as a whole tough. Almost every team in this have at least one first liner who is usually suited as a 2nd liner. One of the many changes for having a 40 team league (Although Litzenberger was used as a 1st liner last year with much lesser linemates)

You want at least one member of your top line to be good at handling the puck. It's usually the center, but not always. Is Litzenberger (or Geoffrion) really the guy you want to try to beat ATD top pairing defensemen through the neutral zone?

 

[markrander87]

You want at least one member of your top line to be good at handling the puck. It's usually the center, but not always. Is Litzenberger (or Geoffrion) really the guy you want to try to beat ATD top pairing defensemen through the neutral zone?

My honest answer right now, is im not sure. I have to read up more on Litzenberger. Is it not normal for an ATD 1st line to play more of a dump and chase game?

 

[Sturminator]

Any thoughts on moving Sittler to the 2nd line and going with Olmstead-Litzenberger-Geoffrion

Litz was more goalscorer than playmaker, meaning that this line would depend an awful lot on Olmstead for playmaking. Bad idea.

I thought hard about drafting Litzenberger at #260 as legit power forwards are very thin at this point in the draft, but what I found on Litz suggested that he was not actually a physical player or puckwinner - just big and lanky. I sort of got away with Litzenberger as the primary puckwinner on the second line of my ATD#10 team (which won the championship), but in truth, I'd have drafted him if I still thought he was a power forward.

Stick with Sittler at center on your first line. Litzenberger is a good pick here (his offensive peak is excellent whether or not he can crush someone along the boards) and gives you positional flexibility in how you build the other pieces of your second line - a quite undervalued quality to have in a player during the process of the draft, especially a draft as thin as this one.

 

[Leaf Lander]

I hear that I am on the clock


give me a few min

 

[markrander87]

Litz was more goalscorer than playmaker, meaning that this line would depend an awful lot on Olmstead for playmaking. Bad idea.

I thought hard about drafting Litzenberger at #260 as legit power forwards are very thin at this point in the draft, but what I found on Litz suggested that he was not actually a physical player or puckwinner - just big and lanky. I sort of got away with Litzenberger as the primary puckwinner on the second line of my ATD#10 team (which won the championship), but in truth, I'd have drafted him if I still thought he was a power forward.

Stick with Sittler at center on your first line. Litzenberger is a good pick here (his offensive peak is excellent whether or not he can crush someone along the boards) and gives you positional flexibility in how you build the other pieces of your second line - a quite undervalued quality to have in a player during the process of the draft, especially a draft as thin as this one.

It was between him and 2 other guy's but the point you made which is bolded pushed me in his direction.

Good points all around. Litz will stay in the 2nd line. Sittler brings a bit of everything to our 1st line.

I look forward to researching Litzenberger in more detail

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Billy, you might want to add this to Frank McGee's profile (it's from the LOH profile of an undrafted):

The Thistles challenged Ottawa again in March 1905. The Silver Seven were without the services of star player Frank McGee and the challengers won the first game of the series by a score of 9-3. Ottawa, with McGee back in the lineup, won the next two games to send the Thistles home empty-handed for a second time.

Sure, there's no proof the Silver 7 got blown out because they were missing McGee, but it's a nice feather in his cap.

 

[Leaf Lander]

select Hall of Famer

#8 Rusty Crawford LW

He was know for his speed aggressive play and longevity

 

[hfboardsuser]

select Hall of Famer

#8 Rusty Crawford D

He was know for his speed aggressive play and longevity

Uh, LL, are you sure you're referring to the right Crawford?