At What Level Should The Axe Fall?

[Del Preston]

Scott Howson should be added to the list with the other three. Everyone was singing his praises after he got fired and Columbus was " turning the corner " with the team he built. Last time I checked there 2nd last in the league. Surprised know one has brought that up.

They're only second last because of the injuries they've had.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Nelson is likely, IMO, going to end up somewhere else this summer. He's respected by the players and has worked with almost all of them. To me, it would make sense to let him take the reigns while a new GM is being searched for. I hate the situation where the coach is hired before the GM.

I like Bylsma, but wouldn't it be smarter to have the team work with a guy they know and trust and have done well for in the interim until the new GM can determine what style and coach he might want? Otherwise you either end up like Calgary (Hartley has done great) or you end up like Toronto or Buffalo where the guy in the coaches chair is the last guy's hire.

Bylsma very well may be the best guy for the job, but I would think that since the year is lost already, when you do this, you do it top down.

Does that make me foolish?

But what's the point of bringing up a coach with no NHL experience to instill a new system that will be obsolete by the end of the season?

I fully agree that the GM needs to go first but it's simply not going to happen. Eakins will likely be the only one fired, so he's going to be the only one replaced.

 

[Seedling]

They're only second last because of the injuries they've had.

Agreed. Columbus is a good team that has had many injuries to several key guys. Howson did do some good work there but it's not enough to save him here IMO. I do think his work in Columbus was only recognized once he was gone but the Nikitin signing...that's all on him.

 

[CM4]

They're only second last because of the injuries they've had.

So wouldn't that even add more to my point that his team had no depth?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So wouldn't that even add more to my point that his team had no depth?

They lost their starting goaltender, a good chunk of their top 6, and a few defensemen.

No team could survive that.

 

[Seedling]

But what's the point of bringing up a coach with no NHL experience to instill a new system that will be obsolete by the end of the season?

I fully agree that the GM needs to go first but it's simply not going to happen. Eakins will likely be the only one fired, so he's going to be the only one replaced.

Well, it's always easy to fire the coach.

The point is you bring up a guy on a season that is lost already to give him a bit of a shot until you can see if he is worth offering something at the NHL level. Believe it or not many coaches from the AHL have done well in the NHL. He seems like he's doing an excellent job to me. Give him a shot until the new guy comes in.

Aside from that, who's to say that if you keep Ramsey that system won't change? When Quinn left, Renney changed the system. When Renney left, Krueger changed the system. Eakins is now in what seems to be his second system. Who's to say that Ramsy likes what he sees? So really, what's the difference between letting Ramsey take over and waiting (if that's your only option) and letting a guy who looks like he deserves more consideration in Nelson doing it? You may have the solution right in front of you. You may not, but at least you know by the end of the year.

Maybe Bylsma replaces Eakins and that's all that happens. He certainly did a good job, in my estimation, in Pittsburgh, but again, just because he's not a coach ATM doesn't mean he will jump in joy to come here at all. This goes back to my original question. Why would Bylsma come here while others who are "NHL" coaches won't? Surely he has the same knowledge and concerns they do.

 

[CM4]

They lost their starting goaltender, a good chunk of their top 6, and a few defensemen.

No team could survive that.

Pittsburgh Survived without Crosby and Malkin.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Pittsburgh Survived without Crosby and Malkin.

Did they lose Fleury, Letang, and others?

 

[enthropi]

Chop forest, flush water.

 

[CM4]

Did they lose Fleury, Letang, and others?

If I'm not mistaken I'm pretty sure Letang was injured as well during there absence. Fleury is terrible so you don't need him to be injured. And Crosby and Malkin is a way bigger impact being gone then anything Columbus has.

Columbus not having Horton doesn't count either since he barely played with them since signing. It's like they never had him.

 

[rboomercat90]

Maybe the reason Mactavish hasn't fired Eakins is because he isn't allowed to. Maybe when he fired Krueger he became a package deal with Eakins to Katz. Maybe Katz is tired of paying for numerous coaches at the same time and told him to choose wisely on the next one if he wanted to fire Krueger. Maybe it's been decided that if it doesn't work out then they go together. Maybe that's why Katz tried to make it clear last season that this is Mactavish's team now and kind of threw him under the bus during the "Lowe's gotta go campaign".

Lots of maybes here, I know. I'm just trying to think of a logical reason why a guy that lots of people always thought was pretty smart hasn't done anything about a situation most can agree isn't working.

 

[Del Preston]

Maybe the reason Mactavish hasn't fired Eakins is because he isn't allowed to. Maybe when he fired Krueger he became a package deal with Eakins to Katz. Maybe Katz is tired of paying for numerous coaches at the same time and told him to choose wisely on the next one if he wanted to fire Krueger. Maybe it's been decided that if it doesn't work out then they go together. Maybe that's why Katz tried to make it clear last season that this is Mactavish's team now and kind of threw him under the bus during the "Lowe's gotta go campaign".

Lots of maybes here, I know. I'm just trying to think of a logical reason why a guy that lots of people always thought was pretty smart hasn't done anything about a situation most can agree isn't working.

That would make sense. Then again, Katz is a 1980s jock sniffer.

One thing I remember from the press conference when MacT fired Krueger was him saying it was solely his decision and he'd be judged by it. Now it's pretty clear MacTavish doesn't want to admit he was not only wrong but completely blew the entire situation.

This has got to end though.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Maybe the reason Mactavish hasn't fired Eakins is because he isn't allowed to. Maybe when he fired Krueger he became a package deal with Eakins to Katz. Maybe Katz is tired of paying for numerous coaches at the same time and told him to choose wisely on the next one if he wanted to fire Krueger. Maybe it's been decided that if it doesn't work out then they go together. Maybe that's why Katz tried to make it clear last season that this is Mactavish's team now and kind of threw him under the bus during the "Lowe's gotta go campaign".

Lots of maybes here, I know. I'm just trying to think of a logical reason why a guy that lots of people always thought was pretty smart hasn't done anything about a situation most can agree isn't working.

I feel like you're reaching here, I think it's the simple answer which Rishaug referred to, he doesn't want to be overly critical of a coach for not getting the job done when he knows he hasn't given the coach anything close to resembling a complete roster to compete with. MacT was a coach for a lot of years and he had some woefully deficient teams that he was expected to compete with, but wasn't able to and then when he got the pieces he needed we made a push to the final game of the Stanley Cup. In his mind I don't think he thought he became a far better coach overnight, he just had better personnel to work with and it made all the difference in the world. I think there is some sympathy there and he doesn't want to forsake a coach that hasn't been given a competitive roster. I think MacT has the final say on whether or not to fire Eakins and I'm guessing nothing more then a brief call into Katz will get it done, Eakins is not one of the old boys club he has no protective shield beyond MacTavish.

All that said MacT made a pretty emphatic statement while the team wasn't exactly what he wanted it to be he was very confident the team he gave Eakins was stronger then the team last year and he wanted and fully expected better results then last year. He also I'm sure is aware of how much worse our goal differential was last year and I doubt that sat well with him. I somewhat suspect there will be 1 shake-up trade prior to making the final call on whether or not to fire Eakins.

 

[Oi'll say!]

Chop forest, flush water.

LMAO! Too perfect. You can retire from the thread now with a star.

 

[guymez]

Man you are frustrating to try to talk to. Where did I say you had? I was asking what do you propose as a solution?

It appears you answered that to Cupofoil though. So forget it. You want to trade all the "creampuffs" for some "greasy players" and give Eakins another shot.

I will leave it that I disagree with you and that I think Eakins is just as much, if not more, of a problem as the "creampuffs". He needs to be gone regardless of what changes are made to the roster.

Honestly man....you misrepresent my position and then get frustrated when I call you on it.

My position isn't complicated. I am simply suggesting that firing this coach accomplishes the same thing that firing the other 4 coaches...it accomplishes next to nothing. The same core group of players will once again get asked to do something they cant do and the new coach will in time be in the same boat.

I asked you if you thought this was a winning roster and you either couldn't or wouldn't answer that query.

That suggests that you think the roster is just fine.

Although its improved there are still far too many problems with this roster IMO. This roster is unbalanced...too many perimeter players...not enough quality NHL players where it matters...Defence and Centre. A new coach isnt going to change that.

I am at a loss as to why more people cant see this.

 

[guymez]

I feel like you're reaching here, I think it's the simple answer which Rishaug referred to, he doesn't want to be overly critical of a coach for not getting the job done when he knows he hasn't given the coach anything close to resembling a complete roster to compete with. MacT was a coach for a lot of years and he had some woefully deficient teams that he was expected to compete with, but wasn't able to and then when he got the pieces he needed we made a push to the final game of the Stanley Cup. In his mind I don't think he thought he became a far better coach overnight, he just had better personnel to work with and it made all the difference in the world. I think there is some sympathy there and he doesn't want to forsake a coach that hasn't been given a competitive roster. I think MacT has the final say on whether or not to fire Eakins and I'm guessing nothing more then a brief call into Katz will get it done, Eakins is not one of the old boys club he has no protective shield beyond MacTavish.

All that said MacT made a pretty emphatic statement while the team wasn't exactly what he wanted it to be he was very confident the team he gave Eakins was stronger then the team last year and he wanted and fully expected better results then last year. He also I'm sure is aware of how much worse our goal differential was last year and I doubt that sat well with him. I somewhat suspect there will be 1 shake-up trade prior to making the final call on whether or not to fire Eakins.

Good post.

This is a better roster than last year. No doubt about that but is it better where it counts? This team was already strong on the Wings prior to the arrival of Purcell and Poulliot. It needed to be improved at Centre.

As for the defence...Fayne was a great signing. That said the defnece still isnt good enough and still needs more improvement.

Unlike most of the posters on this board I am not all bent out of shape over the goaltending either. Do I think that Scrivens and Fasth could be better...of course. But I also think that the defences gap control is brutal and more often than not Scrivens and Fasth have to fight through this brutal gap control to pick up the puck and its hurting their game. Its hurting their ability to be better because they cant depend on the defence to make a simple play.

I know its being coached because Ramsay and Eakins talk about the need for better gap control. Still dmen like Petry, Ference and Nilkitin continue to make bad decisions. Is that on the coaches...absolutely not.

There are a number of players (forwards as well...as in poor puck support) that arent able to execute whats being coached.
That has to change and changing the coach before the roster is changed is pointless IMO.

The roster is better this year but it was so fricken bad last season that there is still a lot of work left to do.

Perimeter teams will not win...ever. This is still a perimeter team if there ever was one and a new coach is not going to change that.

 

[guymez]

I don't know, i think Eakins needs to go. He has had 100 games to get something out of this roster and they're just not progressing in the win/loss column. I don't think he's cut out to be a head coach, at least not the head coach of an extremely flawed roster that doesn't know how to win.

What i'm saying is if they turf the coach, they need to make meaningful roster changes as well. Firing Eakins and keeping the roster intact really won't make much of a difference.

They should really purge the entire organization, a full cleansing and start fresh.
It would be nice if Nicholson spoke up and got in Katz's ear about meaningful change but that's wishful thinking.

Firing Eakins before they change the roster just doesn't make sense to me.

I thought that Burnt Biscuits articulated that point quite well.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Firing Eakins before they change the roster just doesn't make sense to me.

I thought that Burnt Biscuits articulated that point quite well.

We've seen coaches get more with less. Yes the roster is faulty and incredibly so but this team could actually finish last again.

Everything should go.

 

[guymez]

We've seen coaches get more with less. Yes the roster is faulty and incredibly so but this team could actually finish last again.

Everything should go.

Thats not going to happen..I think you know that.

So with that off the table changing the roster first is really the only thing that makes sense.

I think the best first move any Oiler fan can hope for is if Lowe gets an opportunity to 'change' positions.

The owner is the problem here and he isnt going anywhere.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Thats not going to happen..I think you know that.

So with that off the table changing the roster first is really the only thing that makes sense.

I think the best first move any Oiler fan can hope for is if Lowe gets an opportunity to 'change' positions.

The owner is the problem here and he isnt going anywhere.

Yes that is the sad truth.

But the roster has also been turned over so many times. Hall/Eberle are the longest serving Oilers...

I just don't know anymore. The more this season goes on the less I give a **** about this team and it's direction, if it has one.

 

[Halibut]

Firing Eakins before they change the roster just doesn't make sense to me.

I thought that Burnt Biscuits articulated that point quite well.

We've seen what MacT has been able to do by changing the roster, and it's not good. Why would we expect now that he's going to make a move that is any significant change?

 

[McPuritania]

The only person, the ONLY person who should be safe in this organization is Joey Moss.

 

[guymez]

Yes that is the sad truth.

But the roster has also been turned over so many times. Hall/Eberle are the longest serving Oilers...

I just don't know anymore. The more this season goes on the less I give a **** about this team and it's direction, if it has one.

This group of players has a major thing in common with the players of previous years.

The vast majority of them are perimeter players.
That along with upgrades at Centre has to change.

So does the defence.

This is a sub .500 team with the lineup as is. Better than last season but still not good enough.

 

[guymez]

We've seen what MacT has been able to do by changing the roster, and it's not good. Why would we expect now that he's going to make a move that is any significant change?

MacT is an upgrade on Tambo. That being said I agree that MacT hasnt done a good enough job.

Its been 18 months for him on the job. I give him until the end of the season and if the roster hasnt changed for the better then IMO he cant expect any fan confidence what so ever.

I suspect that the GM role is a little complicated thanks to Katz.

Katz is the elephant in the room that most fans dont want to acknowledge. He is the major reason why this team isnt improving quickly enough.

Katz has already demonstrated that he isnt smart enough to realize that playing GM behind the scenes isnt a good idea so I am not so sure that MacT has free reign to do as he pleases.

Its a tough go when the owner is so obtuse that he wont let hockey people succeed or fail on their own merits.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This group of players has a major thing in common with the players of previous years.

The vast majority of them are perimeter players.
That along with upgrades at Centre has to change.

So does the defence.

This is a sub .500 team with the lineup as is. Better than last season but still not good enough.

While I kind of agree with what you're saying (especially the center deal as I've been harping on this for awhile), I don't get why they can't be drivers. Anyone can go to the net. We've seen the odd greasy goal from this bunch. The problem is they don't shoot. They always look for the perfect pass instead of getting it to the net.

I think the right coach could encourage this team to drive to the net, and to hit bodies, and do all those little things.

But there's just far too many things wrong with this franchise and I don't think it's ever going to recover. Everything from the owner on down is just wrong.