Prospect Info: At 18th Overall the Winnipeg Jets Select C Chaz Lucius

[10Ducky10]

Honestly my bet would be the Islanders.

Mine would be Buffalo.
Who have they developed?
I can't think of one off of the top of my head.
Reinhart I guess?

edit
He got 9 games with the Sabres the year he was drafted and then had 47 games in juniors and 3 with Rochessa after they drafted him before starting full time. Looks like he doesn't miss many games.

edit #2
I just read that Power is going back to University of Michigan this season.

 

[Bob E]

Looking forward to seeing what Chaz can do in college hockey this year.

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

I can't say who, but there is a NHL team that their development position is if the players are worth it they will put in the work themselves, and essentially have no developmental system in place.

Get serious, this is the NHL where the league minimum salary is $700,000+. You don’t spend that much money on a foot soldier and not invest in them. At work, we invest in our entry level people and they make $50-60,000. There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

 

[JetsUK]

Get serious, this is the NHL where the league minimum salary is $700,000+. You don’t spend that much money on a foot soldier and not invest in them. At work, we invest in our entry level people and they make $50-60,000. There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

I mean, sure, but @garret9 knows whereof he speaks. The league has had plenty of WTF moments -- example: pretty much every Arizona or Buffalo season/offseason in living memory -- and the idea that an NHL franchise embedded in the good ol' boys mindset might endorse a "sink or swim" philosophy for its prospects strikes me as both asinine and plausible.

The Jets org has its blind spots but they take player development very seriously and it shows.

 

[SM]

Get serious, this is the NHL where the league minimum salary is $700,000+. You don’t spend that much money on a foot soldier and not invest in them. At work, we invest in our entry level people and they make $50-60,000. There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

Not similar situations at all.

You’re only paying $700k per year for a player you carry on your NHL roster all year. AHL makes roughly a 10th of your NHL-salary, and CHL/Euro prospects aren’t being paid by the team at all (besides signing bonuses). Your 50-60k “foot soldiers” at work also will likely stay with your organization for years and are not represented by professionals who’s job is to maximize their career earnings.

Garret has worked within the industry and is pretty dialed in — if he claims this is the case, I believe him.

 

[SLAYER]

There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

Apparently you've never seen a Sabres game.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

Get serious, this is the NHL where the league minimum salary is $700,000+. You don’t spend that much money on a foot soldier and not invest in them. At work, we invest in our entry level people and they make $50-60,000. There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

What's ludicrous is being a rookie poster and challenging a veteran poster who actually works in the NHL.

 

[larmex99]

What's ludicrous is being a rookie poster and challenging a veteran poster who actually works in the NHL.

We lost Aavco over posts like this. I still miss the guy’s thoughtful and smart posts. Sadly….

 

[DRW204]

What's ludicrous is being a rookie poster and challenging a veteran poster who actually works in the NHL.

what's ludicrous is assuming everyone knows everyone's status or where they work on an internet forum, especially for a member who has just been recently active.

 

[SLAYER]

what's ludicrous is assuming everyone knows everyone's status or where they work on an internet forum, especially for a member who has just been recently active.

On one hand we have an industry professional and long-time HF poster who has contributed more data/information than 99% of other posters here.

On the other hand we have someone who doesn't realize that players on ELCs are only paid an NHL salary if they are on the roster. They are also overlooking every example of extreme incompetence displayed by a hockey club since the NHL began.

Which one would you be inclined to believe?

 

[DRW204]

On one hand we have an industry professional and long-time HF poster who has contributed more data/information than 99% of other posters here.

On the other hand we have someone who doesn't realize that players on ELCs are only paid an NHL salary if they are on the roster. They are also overlooking every example of extreme incompetence displayed by a hockey club since the NHL began.

Which one would you be inclined to believe?

huh? attacking a relatively inactive poster (140 posts in 2+ years) b/c they don't know who garret is isnt cool. it's not about who i am inclined to believe, it's about assuming every single poster on here knows who garrett is and what he does. way to misrepresent my post.

 

[SLAYER]

huh? attacking a relatively inactive poster (140 posts in 2+ years) b/c they don't know who garret is isnt cool. it's not about who i am inclined to believe, it's about assuming every single poster on here knows who garrett is and what he does. way to misrepresent my post.

I don't think anyone was "attacking" them, just pointing out why their rant was unwarranted.

When someone throws around stuff like "Get serious", "there's not a chance", and "that's ludicrous", they're gonna get some feedback if they are misinformed. This is all off-topic anyways...

But hey, like Biggie once said; "And if you don't know, now you know."

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

huh? attacking a relatively inactive poster (140 posts in 2+ years) b/c they don't know who garret is isnt cool. it's not about who i am inclined to believe, it's about assuming every single poster on here knows who garrett is and what he does. way to misrepresent my post.

Relax, He's not being attacked. He's been informed.

alright.. so attacking = informing, got it.

Perhaps a visualization is necessary...

Attacked:

Informed

 

[larmex99]

huh? attacking a relatively inactive poster (140 posts in 2+ years) b/c they don't know who garret is isnt cool. it's not about who i am inclined to believe, it's about assuming every single poster on here knows who garrett is and what he does. way to misrepresent my post.

The poster is probably a good fan. The post was not well thought out. Like, at all.

 

[DRW204]

I don't think anyone was "attacking" them, just pointing out why their rant was unwarranted.

When someone throws around stuff like "Get serious", "there's not a chance", and "that's ludicrous", they're gonna get some feedback if they are misinformed. This is all off-topic anyways...

But hey, like Biggie once said; "And if you don't know, now you know."

alright.. so attacking = informing, got it.

 

[Adam da bomb]

We lost Aavco over posts like this. I still miss the guy’s thoughtful and smart posts. Sadly….

Hopefully Garrett doesn’t abandon us too because of these Rooks.

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

On one hand we have an industry professional and long-time HF poster who has contributed more data/information than 99% of other posters here.

On the other hand we have someone who doesn't realize that players on ELCs are only paid an NHL salary if they are on the roster. They are also overlooking every example of extreme incompetence displayed by a hockey club since the NHL began.

Which one would you be inclined to believe?

I understand how ELC's work but this is 2021. It doesn't make good business sense for any professional organization, sports or otherwise, to let teenagers develop themselves. I may not have inside knowledge, have contributed as much or be as knowledgable as the OP but I am using common sense here. What owner or ownership group would pay out $81.5 in team salary (assuming that it is a cap team) plus the millions to run the organization and not question why prospects are left to fend for themselves? Why would they do that to their investment? The fact that no one in a multimillion $ organization would even question it? There are very smart and intelligent people from the ownership to the coaches and front end staff in the organizations. This isn't the 90's where you can fly by the seat of your pants and just wing it. There is data and analytics everywhere. Invest in scouts but not in development, I simply don't understand it. One in 15 servers at Starbucks has a MBA and even they can tell you that a business model that allows 18 and 19 yr old teenagers to develop themselves is a failing model. I find it hard to believe that a professional sports organization in a major sport would be so utterly incompetent in 2021. Maybe the OP is right and I am wrong...I don't know....it is not my intent to chase anyone away. Now that I have been educated or "informed" as some of you put it, I will absolutely defer to anyone that works within the NHL but having business experience working in an organization dealing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see how the vision/mission statement of the leadership team in a NHL organization would miss a massive strategic line of effort in their business model.

 

[ps241]

Get serious, this is the NHL where the league minimum salary is $700,000+. You don’t spend that much money on a foot soldier and not invest in them. At work, we invest in our entry level people and they make $50-60,000. There is not a chance that any NHL team is so careless that they just expect teenagers to develop themselves. That’s ludicrous.

To garret's point the player development position the Jets have with Jimmy Roy and Mike Keane isn't necessarily in all orgs. I am aware of an organization that didn't have a full time dedicated resource for player development, they had a guy who had it as part of his job portfolio. Then you have orgs like Buffalo that completely gutted their scouting and management staffs......Phoenix was on a pretty low budget. In reality all organizations have GM's and assistant GM's and generally head trainers who can all monitor progress. If they are playing on their AHL team then they have help there. IF not the AHL the prospect will be playing for a team (Junior, college, USHL, Europe) and that team will be developing them. Most prospects have agents, skills coaches, skating coaches, trainers etc. Its not like a guy like Jimmy Roy is going to be doing allot of heavy lifting, they are tracking, monitoring, advising etc but the prospects are doing the heavy lifting. Also in some systems armature scouts usually have relationships with the drafted prospects and they, meet and monitor progress and keep in touch.

 

[ps241]

I understand how ELC's work but this is 2021. It doesn't make good business sense for any professional organization, sports or otherwise, to let teenagers develop themselves. I may not have inside knowledge, have contributed as much or be as knowledgable as the OP but I am using common sense here. What owner or ownership group would pay out $81.5 in team salary (assuming that it is a cap team) plus the millions to run the organization and not question why prospects are left to fend for themselves? Why would they do that to their investment? The fact that no one in a multimillion $ organization would even question it? There are very smart and intelligent people from the ownership to the coaches and front end staff in the organizations. This isn't the 90's where you can fly by the seat of your pants and just wing it. There is data and analytics everywhere. Invest in scouts but not in development, I simply don't understand it. One in 15 servers at Starbucks has a MBA and even they can tell you that a business model that allows 18 and 19 yr old teenagers to develop themselves is a failing model. I find it hard to believe that a professional sports organization in a major sport would be so utterly incompetent in 2021. Maybe the OP is right and I am wrong...I don't know....it is not my intent to chase anyone away. Now that I have been educated or "informed" as some of you put it, I will absolutely defer to anyone that works within the NHL but having business experience working in an organization dealing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see how the vision/mission statement of the leadership team in a NHL organization would miss a massive strategic line of effort in their business model.

I am not saying its correct but the president of the organization I chatted with that had it as a part time job felt the role itself was mostly redundant inside a well staffed hockey operation. This org in not on a shoestring budget either. Personally I like the Jets having Roy and Keane focused on it and I don't think it can hurt. I am not sure if its still the same but whenever I happened to be out watching Moose practices I would see one of either Keane or Roy on the ice working with the players. I have run into Mike at the airport on occasion and talked to him and he is usually flying out to visit prospects (this was pre Covid). I think in an org like Winnipeg we need every edge we can get in scouting and player development.

 

[SLAYER]

I find it hard to believe that a professional sports organization in a major sport would be so utterly incompetent in 2021.

I think you're giving some of these franchises way too much credit; I don't think it's that far-fetched at all.

 

[WolfHouse]

Weird I keep checking this thread expecting a post about Chaz Lucius

 

[ps241]

Weird I keep checking this thread expecting a post about Chaz Lucius

well at least the rabbit hole is on the topic of prospect development which is the same universe. We aren't talking about line combinations this season yet.

 

[WolfHouse]

well at least the rabbit hole is on the topic of prospect development which is the same universe. We aren't talking about line combinations this season yet.

But next season I expect
Perfetti-Scheifele-Lucius as our top line

 

[jimsabo21]

How about this: Every single NHL team has an AHL affiliation which means they DO ALL SPEND MONEY on player development. Running a 76 game AHL season, and paying players 75-250K USD is an absolute investment in player development. These AHL teams all have full coaching staffs, trainers, doctors, etc ... so again, that would be considered a tangible investment in future prospects.

In my humble opinion, player development is much more of an organizational philosophy than it is something you can simply throw money at. Unlike European soccer, NHL teams have no rights or access to players until they are drafted. Conversely, a European Soccer Academy will have hundreds of teenagers in their academies and guide 100% of their skills / training / game play. As they grow older, they play for the (U14 / U16 / U18) clubs etc. whereby only a small select few actually ever make it to the BIG team. That is player development.

In the NHL, 99% of drafted players are committed to either: NCAA, USHL, OHL, WHL, QMJHL, KHL (VHL/MHL), Liiga, SEL. All these teams have their own coaching staff, dedicated trainers, etc. 90% of a kids development will happen within their club team (not affiliated to NHL).

Yes, NHL teams will host a week long rookie camp and speak to the importance of proper training routines, nutrition, etc., but if you think any of this stuff is *new* to players, you're not aware of hockey in 2021. These elite kids come from hockey academies elite programs and have been living this world since they've been 13 years old (probably younger). If they don't make the NHL, they continue to play with their club team where they develop some more.

Not trying to diminish the role of Keane or Jimmy Roy - I'm sure it's fantastic for the kids to have them as resources. But you're kidding yourself if you think Chaz Lucius will get more from a few phone conversations than he will from the Minnesota Gophers elite NCAA programming.

True and tangible hockey development by an NHL club is likely token at best UNTIL the player actually starts playing in the AHL at which point a true hands on approach can commence.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

I understand how ELC's work but this is 2021. It doesn't make good business sense for any professional organization, sports or otherwise, to let teenagers develop themselves. I may not have inside knowledge, have contributed as much or be as knowledgable as the OP but I am using common sense here. What owner or ownership group would pay out $81.5 in team salary (assuming that it is a cap team) plus the millions to run the organization and not question why prospects are left to fend for themselves? Why would they do that to their investment? The fact that no one in a multimillion $ organization would even question it? There are very smart and intelligent people from the ownership to the coaches and front end staff in the organizations. This isn't the 90's where you can fly by the seat of your pants and just wing it. There is data and analytics everywhere. Invest in scouts but not in development, I simply don't understand it. One in 15 servers at Starbucks has a MBA and even they can tell you that a business model that allows 18 and 19 yr old teenagers to develop themselves is a failing model. I find it hard to believe that a professional sports organization in a major sport would be so utterly incompetent in 2021. Maybe the OP is right and I am wrong...I don't know....it is not my intent to chase anyone away. Now that I have been educated or "informed" as some of you put it, I will absolutely defer to anyone that works within the NHL but having business experience working in an organization dealing in the hundreds of millions I cannot see how the vision/mission statement of the leadership team in a NHL organization would miss a massive strategic line of effort in their business model.

I think you're highly over rating the level of involvement any NHL team has with their draft picks.

The term "draft & develop" sounds nice, but season after season the most significant change in a players development occurs over the summer when players are away from their teams. Players invest in personal chefs, personal trainers, skills coaches & spent their summer on their own time transforming their game & their bodies with no team coaches even allowed to get involved as per the CBA. At best those at the pro level have an exit interview where the groundwork for off season training & expectations for the coming year are discussed.

No one is holding the hand of any prospect helping them develop. They are all on their own while making $70,000 a year. The lucky blue chip prospects at least have a signing bonus & the smart players like Scheifele invest it in themselves doing what I outlined in the second paragraph. Others like Kane lose it in a single spin of the roulette wheel.

Rather than "draft & develop," the term "draft & offer life advice" might be a better description of the average teams relationship with their draft picks.

The post immediately above mine by @jimsabo21 is a very good description of exactly what NHL teams do offer, a professional AHL/ECHL team to grow in & not all even do that, instead sharing their farm team with other organizations.