Player Discussion Artemi Panarin: Part II

Discussion in 'New York Rangers' started by Fugazy, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    He should win the hart but Point totalzzzz will direct the trophy somewhere else.

    That and Zibanejad going God Tier.
     
    Jackson Ranger likes this.
  2. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    36,294
    Likes Received:
    23,397
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Datacenter manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    I would still give it to MacKinnon over Panarin due to the situation he was in. The number of games his best teammates missed due to injury, leading everyone else on his team by 43+ points. He really carried his team to the play offs.

    Panarin has been great, but the dual-threat the Rangers have with him and Zibanejad does affect the MVP-considerion for me. The 2nd and 3rd highest in points were rookie D-man Cale Makar and bottom 6 forward Andre Burakovsky, on MacKinnon's team. That's crazy
     
    CasusBelli and Rangerfans like this.
  3. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    The biggest compliment I can pay Strome is that he doesn't drag Panarin down.

    If you look deeper into the numbers, Panarin's shot% jumped as did his secondary assist count. Neither of those things are really things we can rely on to carry over into next season.

    OTOH, he almost had a full point more per 60 min on the PP this year than he did last year. Strome had little to do with that as he's the ultimate passenger on that unit.
     
  4. SA16 Sixstring

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Long Island
    I think all this shows you is the top players don't need other top players to produce. MacKinnon can perform with Landeskog/Rantanen and he can perform without them. Panarin can perform with Atkinson or he can perform with Jesper Fast. If the Rangers had more injuries, or the Oilers had more injuries, you'd likely have the exact same scenario of Panarin or Draisaitl/MacKinnon outscoring his teammates by a huge margin.
     
    CasusBelli likes this.
  5. True Blue Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    26,143
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Home Page:
    The biggest compliment I have for Strome is that IF this is what he is when paired with Panarin, then he enables the coaching staff to deploy two top lines. Yeah, I know. Cue the "Panarin is the sole reason that happens. Ok. Like I said, if it were that easy and anyone can do it, then why not sign some rookie for an ECL and have him do it?

    The view seems to be that all of Strome's assists can be discounted as Panarin scored them. All someone needs to do is skate at center and simply lob the puck to Panarin's side of the ice.
     
    will1066 likes this.
  6. SA16 Sixstring

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Long Island
    The biggest compliment I have for Strome is that he was somehow able to dupe a large portion of the fanbase and media into believing that he allows the coaching staff to deploy two lines. Ryan Spooner could do the same thing if he was here in this role. He already has done it before with Boston.
     
  7. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    I mean, you may not want to admit it but it's true. Its the reason why I shook my head every time someone put Zibanejad and Panarin together in line combos last off season.

    It's not as simple as existing, as I said Strome should be credited for not dragging him down (that wasn't a dig at him, there are plenty of players in the league who would do that. Howden would for sure) But it would be foolish to think that Strome had a large part of Panarin doing what he did this year. I really don't think he would have been any less successful this season with Chytil down the middle.
     
  8. True Blue Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    26,143
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Home Page:
    I am not admitting it because I do not believe that attributing zero to Strome while Panarin was on pace to demolish all of his records is valid.

    I am not stating that Strome was a large part of Panarin's success. Panarin was arguably a top-5 player in the league. He could do plenty himself. But he WAS a part of it. And I guess that is where we diverge in our views. I have zero evidence that had Chytil centered Panarin all year, that the results would be the same (Panarin would be what he was and Chytil would be a 70 point player). I just do not believe that to be true. And because I don't, I see Strome as a pretty valuable commodity that could be had a reasonable rate.
     
  9. SingnBluesOnBroadway Retired

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    35,471
    Likes Received:
    4,065
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    NYC
    Awards:
    I think it's really easy to say "Oh, Strome plays with Panarin". But Panarin's numbers are are better than ever before in a season. Now is that all attributable to Strome? Of course not. But Panarin has played with players much better than Strome and not had this kind of success. Strome may not be the flashy player but he has learned to find open ice wear Panarin can feed him.

    We've seen before that playerscan't find success playing with an elite player (see Jagr and Drury or Gomez).
     
    CasusBelli likes this.
  10. SA16 Sixstring

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Long Island
    There is obviously a huge difference between "Any competent NHL player should be able to have success with Panarin" and "Any person in the world can have success with Panarin" but gotta go with the absolute max hypoerbole whenever possible. Yes, I believe if you put Panarin with the vast majority of 3C level players you will see almost no fall off. If you put Panarin with random ECHL 4C obviously the production will not be there.
     
  11. True Blue Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    26,143
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Home Page:
    Claiming that the vast majority of 3rd line centers could spend a season with Panarin and morph into 70 point players, all the while helping Panarin achieve career numbers is really no different than citing the max hyperbole you describe.
     
  12. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    36,294
    Likes Received:
    23,397
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Datacenter manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    If that was true, I'm sure coaches and GMs would capitalize on that. But no, Pittsburgh pays Guentzel 6m a year to put up 50-ish points a season playing with Crosby.
     
  13. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    Panarin's super productive season has everything to do with scoring being up, higher secondary assist numbers and a lethal PP. Had CBJ not had an ass PP last year he would have easily been top 10 in scoring.

    It doesn't mean that he isn't good, it's clear that hes one of the top wingers in the league, but that has nothing to do with Strome.

    Whats next? Are we going to credit Staal with DeAngelo's break out?

    You do realize that he's basically been a PPG player over the last 1.5 seasons right?
     
  14. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    36,294
    Likes Received:
    23,397
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Datacenter manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    Because of Crosby, right? ;)
     
  15. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    Of course it's a factor.

    But fun fact - He actually played more often with Malkin this year.
     
  16. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    36,294
    Likes Received:
    23,397
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Datacenter manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    Anyone can put up points with Malkin.
     
  17. SA16 Sixstring

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2006
    Messages:
    9,232
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    Long Island
    Guentzel is a horrible example. Bryan Rust, Conor .Sheary, and Dominik Simon are good ones
     
  18. Irishguy42 Mr. Preachy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    23,720
    Likes Received:
    13,551
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    NJ
    Pretty sure we've gone through this Guentzel/Crosby/etc. thing before on HF in relation to Panarin/Strome/etc. and it turns out just to show that...yes...playing elite players with randoms did result in the randoms having beeeeeeeeeeg success.

    Also, Guentzel was a known good player before being an NHL regular, and is good in his own right, so it's a bad player to bring comparison to.
     
  19. True Blue Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2002
    Messages:
    26,143
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    Trophy Points:
    231
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Home Page:
    Even a caveman can do it. Wait, that would make two of them on one line.....
     
  20. GoAwayStaal 20 Foot Player

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    24,343
    Likes Received:
    18,202
    Trophy Points:
    187
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Ayatollah of Pylons
    Location:
    In High Altitoad
    No I don’t think Staal would be successful in Stromes roll.
     
    Machinehead and Mikachu93 like this.
  21. EdJovanovski Registered User

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    7,143
    Likes Received:
    8,935
    Trophy Points:
    121
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Occupation:
    Retired NHL’er
    Location:
    Vancouver ✈️ Los Angeles
    I don’t think the PP made much of a difference, he led the league in EV points by 11 (which is a massive gap), and was on pace for the most EV points in a season since Jagr in 1996
     
    will1066 and KirkAlbuquerque like this.
  22. Irishguy42 Mr. Preachy

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    23,720
    Likes Received:
    13,551
    Trophy Points:
    141
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Location:
    NJ
    Eric Staal tho...would be nice.
     
  23. will1066 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    14,028
    Likes Received:
    11,309
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    No E. Staal in NY. Once was enough.
     
  24. Amazing Kreiderman @StatBoy_Steven Sponsor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    Messages:
    36,294
    Likes Received:
    23,397
    Trophy Points:
    156
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Datacenter manager
    Location:
    Vienna
    Petr Nedved had 2 stints in New York and his 2nd was much better.

    I don't think Staal will be on this team again, but his 6 weeks of regular season struggles won't be the reason for it
     
  25. will1066 Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2008
    Messages:
    14,028
    Likes Received:
    11,309
    Trophy Points:
    186
    SB Cash:
    $ 200,000
    No thank you!
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"