Around the NHL Discussion Part XV

[Captain Creampuff]

Loved seeing Johnson beat the snot out of Rinaldo after that sucker punch.

 

[Ranksu]

If TT sucked, wouldn't blues fans want him to stay in Chicago?

No someones here really thought he sucked and Chicago win that trade when they dump Bickell and paid only TT. I can search those messages when I come back from xmas holidays.

 

[simon IC]

Loved seeing Johnson beat the snot out of Rinaldo after that sucker punch.

Hmmmmm, where's my can opener? I feel like some worms. I always liked EJ, and was very upset when he was traded. I'm retrospect, I understand some of the reasoning, but I vehemently opposed the trade when it happened and I took a lot of heat for it on other forums. I'm not sure if the Blues ever really "won" that trade. Honestly, who would you rather have on your roster right now, Kevin Shattenkirk or Erik Johnson?

 

[Meatball]

If Erik Johnson were left handed, he'd be a welcome fit on the roster and then I'd feel regret over the trade.

The reason I don't? A certain RHD that wears #55.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

We traded him because he was RHD, so the point is moot.

 

[simon IC]

Oh, I get that we don't have room for EJ. I also get that Pietrangelo's emergence made EJ more expendable, and that the issue of EJ's 1st OA draft pedigree might have been a problem with him being slotted behind Pietrangelo . EJ was going to become a good defenseman somewhere, just not in St. Louis. The other players and picks in the deal have become inconsequential, so it has essentially come down to EJ vs Shattenkirk. EJ had further growing pains in Colorado, so for a while we had the better defenseman. I just think that in the long run, EJ has emerged as the better all around defenseman.

 

[Evocable Manager]

EJ brought a different element than Shattenkirk. We didn't need a minute eating defensive defenseman with rather limited offensive capability. We had a guy who could do everything in terms of shut down opposing stars and more. We needed a winger and a more offensive player on the back end. We got that.

Shattenkirk had a role on this team. We've yet to replace him and it's been showing as the season has progressed.

Stewart was a flop. But then the breaks.

Overall, we got the most productive player who had a great tenure here and was moved for other pieces. It was a fine trade on our side. EJ has been a stabilizing presence in Colorado but much of it has been wasted as they've been terrible the entire time.

 

[Majorityof1]

EJ brought a different element than Shattenkirk. We didn't need a minute eating defensive defenseman with rather limited offensive capability. We had a guy who could do everything in terms of shut down opposing stars and more. We needed a winger and a more offensive player on the back end. We got that.

Shattenkirk had a role on this team. We've yet to replace him and it's been showing as the season has progressed.

Stewart was a flop. But then the breaks.

Overall, we got the most productive player who had a great tenure here and was moved for other pieces. It was a fine trade on our side. EJ has been a stabilizing presence in Colorado but much of it has been wasted as they've been terrible the entire time.

While I do agree with this to an extent. I will disagree that we couldn't use a 2nd minute munching defensive RHD. Parayko shows that. Having Parayko allows Pietrangelo to be much more offensive. Having EJ would have done the same. Now Parayko's ceiling is definitely higher than EJs. But Parayko right now is pretty close to EJ at his prime. They are similar in career ppg (.41 v .44). Yet we aren't trading Parayko, despite the fact he'd pull in a much bigger haul if we did.

The problem with EJ is that he was picked #1 OA, and he turned out to be a nice 10-25OA pick. He is a low-end #2D, or a really good 2nd pairing guy. But nobody in St. Louis could ever think about him as anything more than the guy we picked over Toews/Backstrom. We got good value back in Shattenkirk. But the trade wasn't such a win long term as people often assume. If we hadn't gotten Parayko through luck/great drafting, we may well wish we had EJ instead right now since Shattenkirk was probably gone regardless.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I've never been particularly impressed with Erik Johnson at any point in his NHL career. He's a toolsy guy who just never had the hockey sense to really become the difference maker his skill set hinted at. Does he stand out at anything at all? Not on special teams. Not in the offensive zone. Not in transition. He's not some sort of defensive super-stud. He's just kind of there in terms of impact, and on top of that he makes more mistakes than you would expect with someone of that pedigree. Honestly, he reminds me of a rich man's Eric Brewer. You could do worse if he's a guy you need to do everything, but if he's the guy who's the best at anything on your defense, you're probably not happy about it.

Shattenkirk has his flaws, but there's no question he was a difference maker in at least one area for this team, and I think the Blues ultimately leveraged far more utility and value out of him than they could have out of Johnson. I still consider that trade to be a fairly easy win from the Blues POV.

 

[Evocable Manager]

While I do agree with this to an extent. I will disagree that we couldn't use a 2nd minute munching defensive RHD. Parayko shows that. Having Parayko allows Pietrangelo to be much more offensive. Having EJ would have done the same. Now Parayko's ceiling is definitely higher than EJs. But Parayko right now is pretty close to EJ at his prime. They are similar in career ppg (.41 v .44). Yet we aren't trading Parayko, despite the fact he'd pull in a much bigger haul if we did.

The problem with EJ is that he was picked #1 OA, and he turned out to be a nice 10-25OA pick. He is a low-end #2D, or a really good 2nd pairing guy. But nobody in St. Louis could ever think about him as anything more than the guy we picked over Toews/Backstrom. We got good value back in Shattenkirk. But the trade wasn't such a win long term as people often assume. If we hadn't gotten Parayko through luck/great drafting, we may well wish we had EJ instead right now since Shattenkirk was probably gone regardless.

Parayko and EJ aren't that comparable. EJ has the size but Parayko has the skating, shot, hands, skill, hockey sense and potential to grow into something a lot better. It's also a different situation of a younger more cost controllers guy vs a pending UFA, which is a huge factor as to why Parayko was chosen.

Shattenkirk is one of the best offensive defenseman in the league. Petro is great, but he isn't nearly at good at running a PP as Shattenkirk.

Also, I never said we couldn't use EJ, but he wasn't a necessity to our team. We had bigger needs elsewhere and had more use of Shattenkirk because of what he brought.

I've never been particularly impressed with Erik Johnson at any point in his NHL career. He's a toolsy guy who just never had the hockey sense to really become the difference maker his skill set hinted at. Does he stand out at anything at all? Not on special teams. Not in the offensive zone. Not in transition. He's not some sort of defensive super-stud. He's just kind of there in terms of impact, and on top of that he makes more mistakes than you would expect with someone of that pedigree. Honestly, he reminds me of a rich man's Eric Brewer. You could do worse if he's a guy you need to do everything, but if he's the guy who's the best at anything on your defense, you're probably not happy about it.

Shattenkirk has his flaws, but there's no question he was a difference maker in at least one area for this team, and I think the Blues ultimately leveraged far more utility and value out of him than they could have out of Johnson. I still consider that trade to be a fairly easy win from the Blues POV.

I don't like the contract Colorado gave him at all. I don't see how he's a guy you pay 6M a year in his decline years.

 

[stl76]

So Scheifele is out 6-8 weeks with an upper body injury. Bummer for the jets, HUGE loss. Possibly helpful for the Blues.

 

[PiggySmalls]

Bummer for my fantasy teams as well.

But he has been their best 200 foot player IMO. That is no doubt going to hurt them while helping the Blues. Maintaining 2nd is the central is definitely ideal if Preds get out of reach points wise. Jets are a really strong team at home, would much rather get that extra game in STL.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Vegas on fire

 

[Ranksu]

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Sorry, but Tkachuk is one of my favorite players. He plays the game just like his dad did when he was young.

 

[TheDizee]

boring winter classic

 

[Dbrownss]

What happend to Vesey is what Id like to see happen to guys jabbing at our goalie

 

[Ranksu]

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Remember the preseason polls on our board where we were trying to guess the standings and we had to have a tiebreaker for Nashville and Minnesota?

Looks relatively funny now.

With Schiefele down 2 months, I’d expect Nashville to likely win the Central.

 

[Renard]

Parayko and EJ aren't that comparable. EJ has the size but Parayko has the skating, shot, hands, skill, hockey sense and potential to grow into something a lot better. It's also a different situation of a younger more cost controllers guy vs a pending UFA, which is a huge factor as to why Parayko was chosen.

Shattenkirk is one of the best offensive defenseman in the league. Petro is great, but he isn't nearly at good at running a PP as Shattenkirk.

Also, I never said we couldn't use EJ, but he wasn't a necessity to our team. We had bigger needs elsewhere and had more use of Shattenkirk because of what he brought.

I don't like the contract Colorado gave him at all. I don't see how he's a guy you pay 6M a year in his decline years.

Erik Johnson was a great skater when he was a rookie. I guess the knee injury the next year cost him some speed.

 

[Bye Felicia]

Remember the preseason polls on our board where we were trying to guess the standings and we had to have a tiebreaker for Nashville and Minnesota?

Looks relatively funny now.

With Schiefele down 2 months, I’d expect Nashville to likely win the Central.

It seems the top 3 contenders in the Central have now suffered (relatively) even misfortunes, with Schwartz, Scheifele, and Forsberg all to miss significant time.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

It seems the top 3 contenders in the Central have now suffered (relatively) even misfortunes, with Schwartz, Scheifele, and Forsberg all to miss significant time.

And we will get our guy back before they do.

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

At least there won’t be excuses for the top 3 in our division. We all have to deal with losing a top player for the same length of time.

 

[Ranksu]

 

[The Note]

Duclair and Clendening to CHI for Panik and Dauphin. Good deal for Chicago.