Around the NHL 2023-2024

[STL fan in MN]

This has actually been pretty widely reported. Basically, Arizona guy is selling to the league for 1B and the league is selling to Utah guy for 1.2B. Arizona guy gets to keep all the branding, trademarks, naming rights, etc of the Yotes for five years (But can't sell/transfer them in any way) and can basically "buy back" into the NHL within a five year window for 1B as long as he can build an actual stadium in that time. What happens to the naming and trademark rights after the five years if he can't build the stadium is still being negotiated from what I understand.

This is to save the league a large, protracted court battle with the current Arizona owner, who no one is happy with. The NHLPA is pissed since the players split revenue with the owners 50/50 and Arizona playing in a 5k capacity arena that even the Yotes players think is bogus is clearly an anchor to player salaries. The owners look terrible b/c the Arizona guy has been completely ineffective as an owner, supposedly not even paying regular bills such as hotels the Yotes use on the road and utilities in their prior arena, as well as having zero working relationships with any of the politicians in the Arizona area. (There's a story that hotels won't let the players check in unless the team pays them on the spot with cashiers checks.)

Utah guy is basically all sorts of connected into the legislature of his state, who have already approved a massive taxpayer funded stadium for both the soon to be Utah Yutes as well as a potential 2030 or 2034 Winter Olympic bid. From an ownership perspective, this is a massive win. You get a share of the 200M "relocation fee" Utah guy is paying. You get the Union off your back about the stadium issue. You get yet another tax payer funded stadium built for your organization. And you rid yourself of a totally worthless owner without having to go to court. The only downside is that you are somewhat rewarding bad behavior on the part of the Arizona guy, who's going to make a boatload of money on this sale. But it's Utah guy's money, not any of the owners, so they don't seem to worried about it.

The only part of this that doesn’t make sense to me is how the Coyotes, in their current condition, are in any way worth anything close to $1 billion. That’s quite the windfall there.

But I suppose the other owners don’t really care about that either as if the Yotes are worth $1B, what’s an actual well run, successful team worth??

 

[Brockon]

Going into April 13, 6 days left in the season, and not only do we not know any of the playoff pairings yet, not one playoff seed is set.

Absolute chaos still, as with 3 days remaining only 1 playoff match is set (COL v WPG and the seeding for that still hasn't settled).

Detroit has the easier match for the WC2 spot vs MTL tommorow, but with WSH having the RW that game against PHI tommorow has the Caps in control of their own destiny.

But, there are scenarios where any one of PHI, PIT, DET or the WSH seize the WC2 slot. I think I'll be watching that WSH v PHI game tommorow, which is not something I thought I'd ever deliberately seek out...

Edit: didn't realize the NYR point total hadn't updated yet... That locks the Metro 23 matchup in for CAR v NYI. Meaning 2 matches are now set with 1 seeding locked in.

 

[Brockon]

This has actually been pretty widely reported. Basically, Arizona guy is selling to the league for 1B and the league is selling to Utah guy for 1.2B. Arizona guy gets to keep all the branding, trademarks, naming rights, etc of the Yotes for five years (But can't sell/transfer them in any way) and can basically "buy back" into the NHL within a five year window for 1B as long as he can build an actual stadium in that time. What happens to the naming and trademark rights after the five years if he can't build the stadium is still being negotiated from what I understand.

This is to save the league a large, protracted court battle with the current Arizona owner, who no one is happy with. The NHLPA is pissed since the players split revenue with the owners 50/50 and Arizona playing in a 5k capacity arena that even the Yotes players think is bogus is clearly an anchor to player salaries. The owners look terrible b/c the Arizona guy has been completely ineffective as an owner, supposedly not even paying regular bills such as hotels the Yotes use on the road and utilities in their prior arena, as well as having zero working relationships with any of the politicians in the Arizona area. (There's a story that hotels won't let the players check in unless the team pays them on the spot with cashiers checks.)

Utah guy is basically all sorts of connected into the legislature of his state, who have already approved a massive taxpayer funded stadium for both the soon to be Utah Yutes as well as a potential 2030 or 2034 Winter Olympic bid. From an ownership perspective, this is a massive win. You get a share of the 200M "relocation fee" Utah guy is paying. You get the Union off your back about the stadium issue. You get yet another tax payer funded stadium built for your organization. And you rid yourself of a totally worthless owner without having to go to court. The only downside is that you are somewhat rewarding bad behavior on the part of the Arizona guy, who's going to make a boatload of money on this sale. But it's Utah guy's money, not any of the owners, so they don't seem to worried about it.

Okay, I hadn't seen actual confirmation nor heard that the the Arizona owner gets to buy back in for 1B as a guaranteed rate, assuming he produces an NHL arena in said 5 year window...

That's strange the NHL wouldn't allow for some inflation rate on the cost of an new expansion team and charge 1.2B or something to that effect...

 

[Blueston]

Okay, I hadn't seen actual confirmation nor heard that the the Arizona owner gets to buy back in for 1B as a guaranteed rate, assuming he produces an NHL arena in said 5 year window...

That's strange the NHL wouldn't allow for some inflation rate on the cost of an new expansion team and charge 1.2B or something to that effect...

it's like he took them to a highly particular pawn shop and hocked them for $1b. He can reclaim them for same price, just has to follow their particular rules. I don't think the league really expects (or wants) him to be able to do it.

 

[STL fan in MN]

it's like he took them to a highly particular pawn shop and hocked them for $1b. He can reclaim them for same price, just has to follow their particular rules. I don't think the league really expects (or wants) him to be able to do it.

That’s the weird thing about it though. If this guy is somehow successful and is able to get an arena built there, it basically forces the NHL’s hand into a 33rd franchise.

32 is already too many IMO. 33 is an odd number (literally) so would they then go with 34? People was clamor for Quebec but it’ll probably be Atlanta 3.0 though.

 

[Blueston]

That’s the weird thing about it though. If this guy is somehow successful and is able to get an arena built there, it basically forces the NHL’s hand into a 33rd franchise.

32 is already too many IMO. 33 is an odd number (literally) so would they then go with 34? People was clamor for Quebec but it’ll probably be Atlanta 3.0 though.

league wants to be in phoenix if they get arena. if this guy can do it, they will welcome him back. if not they will find someone else at some point who can get it done.

i think atlanta is almost lock for team. houston would be too if we had owner who was willing to pay price (and if not fertitta would need arena solution). you add phoenix and that puts us at 35. 1 more (quebec?) and we can do 6 divisions of 6..

i get that every time we expand we dilute talent, but the quality of play is better than ever. There are teams that have crappy goaltending, and others that just suck, but when i was kid 16/21 teams make playoffs and now we are at 16/32. So while there are mediocre teams in it now, it's nothing like it was 40 years ago.

 

[BlueDream]

That’s the weird thing about it though. If this guy is somehow successful and is able to get an arena built there, it basically forces the NHL’s hand into a 33rd franchise.

32 is already too many IMO. 33 is an odd number (literally) so would they then go with 34? People was clamor for Quebec but it’ll probably be Atlanta 3.0 though.

I don’t think 32 is too many. What’s wrong with the league right now?

The rumors of getting to 36 are very likely true. I think the NHL wants to get near 30 markets in the U.S.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Buy a $500mil team, run it as poorly as possible for 5 years, sell it for $1bil. God damn, it's easy to make money as a rich person.

 

[TheDizee]

chuckie sideburns is playin good

 

[Ranksu]

Perron IS such a clutch player.

 

[Ranksu]

Hopefully Detroit goes playoffs. That audience IS crazy.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I don’t think 32 is too many. What’s wrong with the league right now?

The rumors of getting to 36 are very likely true. I think the NHL wants to get near 30 markets in the U.S.

Well, I suppose it’s built on the belief that the owners really like playoff revenue. Back when 16 of 21 teams made the playoffs, you had to be really bad to not get that extra revenue. Now it’s 16 of 32. Just think the owners are perhaps looking at this expansion thing short-sighted. Sure, they keep getting millions in expansion fees but every additional team lessens the odds of the playoffs and a Cup for your team.

Then there’s the obvious watering down of the league. Going from 32 to 36 teams adds about 100 more players to the league. When I think of the next 100 players not currently in the league, that doesn’t excite me much.

But maybe playoff revenue isn’t as important as it used to be now that the owners have their guaranteed 50/50 revenue split. Or they’ll just water it down more and have 20-24 teams make the playoffs when they expand to 36.

 

[Brian39]

Well, I suppose it’s built on the belief that the owners really like playoff revenue. Back when 16 of 21 teams made the playoffs, you had to be really bad to not get that extra revenue. Now it’s 16 of 32. Just think the owners are perhaps looking at this expansion thing short-sighted. Sure, they keep getting millions in expansion fees but every additional team lessens the odds of the playoffs and a Cup for your team.

Then there’s the obvious watering down of the league. Going from 32 to 36 teams adds about 100 more players to the league. When I think of the next 100 players not currently in the league, that doesn’t excite me much.

But maybe playoff revenue isn’t as important as it used to be now that the owners have their guaranteed 50/50 revenue split. Or they’ll just water it down more and have 20-24 teams make the playoffs when they expand to 36.

Expanding the playoffs is coming eventually. It appears that Bettman is willing to die on the hill of keeping playoffs at 16 teams, but he is 71 years old and won't be commissioner forever. Even if he can hold off expanded playoffs for the rest of his tenure, the next commissioner will be one who caves on it.

Whether the league stays at 32 teams or expands, we aren't going to keep the current format where 16 teams make it after 82 games forever. My guess is that they will nudge the door open with play in games that aren't 'officially' playoff games so they can still say that only 16 teams make the playoffs while adding a few 'do or die' games worth of revenue.

But even if they don't use more teams as a reason to expand the playoffs down the line, I think it is hard to argue that the slight decrease in each team's expected playoff revenue from adding more teams would ever outweigh the immediate cash infusion of expansion plus the added value on the national TV deals by adding markets.

Each owner has put about $38M of cash in their pockets from expansion fees between Seattle and Vegas. Those fees are going to keep going up and most importantly are not considered HRR. Every dollar made on expansion fees is worth two dollars that must be split 50/50 with the players. And you don't have the expenses of opening your arena for extra games. Realistically, an owner would need to 'lose out' on about $80M of playoff revenue based on missed appearances in order to be in the hole vs the expansion fees they got. Factor in whatever bump Vegas and Seattle bring to the national TV deals and it is a financial no brainer to take the expansion fee.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

The only part of this that doesn’t make sense to me is how the Coyotes, in their current condition, are in any way worth anything close to $1 billion. That’s quite the windfall there.

But I suppose the other owners don’t really care about that either as if the Yotes are worth $1B, what’s an actual well run, successful team worth??

They aren't worth a billion at all. If the NHL doesn't offer this dude the moon, he might drag his feet or take all this to court, which will cost the current owners money. It's pretty clear that the NHLPA and the owners both hate this guy, and the NHLPA has probably made it -very- clear that this will be a major negotiating point in the next CBA.

The payout is to make the Arizona guy f*** off without throwing a fit, and a major benefit of the deal is that the owners are basically subsidizing their mistakes with other people's money. The 1B isn't any of the current owner's money, it's the Utah guy's money, compared to potentially years of lawyers and court fees, which would very much be the owner's money. In fact, the owners are getting PROFIT out of this deal thanks to pocketing and splitting the extra 200M or so the Utah guy is buying the Yotes for.

If Arizona guy actually pulls a stadium out of his ass and builds it in the next five years, the owners then get to split the 1B in expansion fee that he has to pay. It's honestly f***ing amazing for the owners in every way. They make profit off the Utah guy, they defuse the Union on a major issue, and they "double dip" in a way if Arizona comes back within five years.

You can hate Betteman all you want, but f*** me he's winning on this every day and twice on Sunday.

Expanding the playoffs is coming eventually. It appears that Bettman is willing to die on the hill of keeping playoffs at 16 teams, but he is 71 years old and won't be commissioner forever. Even if he can hold off expanded playoffs for the rest of his tenure, the next commissioner will be one who caves on it.

Whether the league stays at 32 teams or expands, we aren't going to keep the current format where 16 teams make it after 82 games forever. My guess is that they will nudge the door open with play in games that aren't 'officially' playoff games so they can still say that only 16 teams make the playoffs while adding a few 'do or die' games worth of revenue.

Yea the NBA made truckloads of money on the "play in" format they recently changed to. I'm sure the NHL owners are looking at all that extra revenue and drooling.

 

[Brian39]

They aren't worth a billion at all. If the NHL doesn't offer this dude the moon, he might drag his feet or take all this to court, which will cost the current owners money. It's pretty clear that the NHLPA and the owners both hate this guy, and the NHLPA has probably made it -very- clear that this will be a major negotiating point in the next CBA.

The payout is to make the Arizona guy f*** off without throwing a fit, and a major benefit of the deal is that the owners are basically subsidizing their mistakes with other people's money. The 1B isn't any of the current owner's money, it's the Utah guy's money, compared to potentially years of lawyers and court fees, which would very much be the owner's money. In fact, the owners are getting PROFIT out of this deal thanks to pocketing and splitting the extra 200M or so the Utah guy is buying the Yotes for.

If Arizona guy actually pulls a stadium out of his ass and builds it in the next five years, the owners then get to split the 1B in expansion fee that he has to pay. It's honestly f***ing amazing for the owners in every way. They make profit off the Utah guy, they defuse the Union on a major issue, and they "double dip" in a way if Arizona comes back within five years.

You can hate Betteman all you want, but f*** me he's winning on this every day and twice on Sunday.

100% nailed it. This is a huge win for each of the existing NHL owners. The only losers are the fans in Arizona.

You could argue that Ryan Smith (the soon-to-be new owner) is a loser because he is paying too much, but I think he is absolutely getting his money's worth. The NHL has made it clear that the next expansion fee was going to be much higher than the $650M they charged Seattle. Maybe not $1.2B, but I'd be shocked if it was ever going to be less than $800M and my money would have been on $1B.

Could he have paid a few hundred million less by waiting and winning an expansion bid? Probably. But that would have meant competing against Atlanta and Houston (and Quebec lol). It would have been at an unspecified future date and most importantly, I firmly believe that the current Coyotes players/picks/prospects are much better than whatever he'd have gotten out of an expansion draft. Teams figured out the expansion rules after Vegas.

I'd much, much, much, much rather get Arizona's roster and futures war chest than get what Seattle got in their expansion draft. Keller is better than anything you'd get in an expansion draft and they get 5 guys under the age of 22 who were drafted in the top 12 picks of their draft. The best Arizona can finish this year is 7th-worst, so this year's draft pick is only a few picks less valuable (worst case) than the one an expansion team gets. They have 7 surplus 2nds and 4 surplus 3rds in the next 3 drafts, so they already have more picks than you could acquire in expansion deals. And they have almost $50M in cap space and don't need to eat into that in order to get those surplus assets.

He is getting this Arizona organization at the perfect time and he is avoiding a multi-year process where he could theoretically lose to other markets. I think the benefit he's getting over an expansion franchise is well worth the extra few hundred million he's spending.

 

[Brockon]

Oooof. Tough break with an early whistle cheating Philly of the opening goal in the WSH PHI game around the 12 min mark...

Puck goes airborne, gets blown dead then comes down, bounces in off a player - no goal, because of the whistle that shouldn't have gone because Lindgren didn't have any part of it.

 

[Blueston]

They aren't worth a billion at all. If the NHL doesn't offer this dude the moon, he might drag his feet or take all this to court, which will cost the current owners money. It's pretty clear that the NHLPA and the owners both hate this guy, and the NHLPA has probably made it -very- clear that this will be a major negotiating point in the next CBA.

The payout is to make the Arizona guy f*** off without throwing a fit, and a major benefit of the deal is that the owners are basically subsidizing their mistakes with other people's money. The 1B isn't any of the current owner's money, it's the Utah guy's money, compared to potentially years of lawyers and court fees, which would very much be the owner's money. In fact, the owners are getting PROFIT out of this deal thanks to pocketing and splitting the extra 200M or so the Utah guy is buying the Yotes for.

If Arizona guy actually pulls a stadium out of his ass and builds it in the next five years, the owners then get to split the 1B in expansion fee that he has to pay. It's honestly f***ing amazing for the owners in every way. They make profit off the Utah guy, they defuse the Union on a major issue, and they "double dip" in a way if Arizona comes back within five years.

You can hate Betteman all you want, but f*** me he's winning on this every day and twice on Sunday.


Yea the NBA made truckloads of money on the "play in" format they recently changed to. I'm sure the NHL owners are looking at all that extra revenue and drooling.

Sens sold for $950mn. Expansion fee is absolutely gonna be at least $1bn. Likely higher now that Smith has set the new price.

 

[Bluesfan54]

Watching the Leafs at Panthers. Second period Toronto was outshot 31-4 and gave up four goals. Yes, 31 shots just in one period. Leafs fans are losing their collective minds. Loving it.

 

[Blueston]

Perron just saved Wings season. For now.

 

[Blueston]

Flyers needing a regulation win to stay alive, pulled their goalie in a tie game with about 3 minutes to go. Oshie scored into empty net for the winnig goal to put Caps into playoffs. So Wings got eliminated because Flyers pulled their goalie in a tie game. I can't tell you how much I love that!!!

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Flyers needing a regulation win to stay alive, pulled their goalie in a tie game with about 3 minutes to go. Oshie scored into empty net for the winnig goal to put Caps into playoffs. So Wings got eliminated because Flyers pulled their goalie in a tie game. I can't tell you how much I love that!!!

I will never get tired of seeing Patrick Kane's disappointed face.

 

[TheDizee]

Blues haven't made the playoffs since they let chuckie walk. He just carried the capitals to the playoffs

 

[Blueston]

so did leafs see that bruins were gonna lose and quit trying tonight so they would lose so that they can play boston instead of panthers? because i don't know how else you can get outshot 30-4 in a period.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

so did leafs see that bruins were gonna lose and quit trying tonight so they would lose so that they can play boston instead of panthers? because i don't know how else you can get outshot 30-4 in a period.

Definitely suspect. I hope that backfires. 'WE WANT FLORIDA' all over again.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

Blues haven't made the playoffs since they let chuckie walk. He just carried the capitals to the playoffs

The Capitals finished with the same amount of points, with 3 less regulation wins (but 6 more OTL’s)and Lindgren had pretty comparable stats to Binnington/Hofer, but go off