Around the League Thread | Expansion Draft Edition

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[F A N]

Just looking at the Suter and Parise buyouts just now. So they save cap room this season, slightly next season, and then they basically save nothing the next two seasons while having a $833K cap hit for 4 seasons?

 

[m9]

Just looking at the Suter and Parise buyouts just now. So they save cap room this season, slightly next season, and then they basically save nothing the next two seasons while having a $833K cap hit for 4 seasons?

Pretty much, yeah. Opens up cap space this year and 2 expansion draft slots.

 

[canuckking1]

lmao

 

[StreetHawk]

Just looking at the Suter and Parise buyouts just now. So they save cap room this season, slightly next season, and then they basically save nothing the next two seasons while having a $833K cap hit for 4 seasons?

Well they have been paid $88/$98 mill so far. $7.5 mill cap for 9 seasons is like $67.5 mill. So all of that front loaded cash has to hit the cap at some point.

$88 mill for 9 seasons is an AAV of like $9.8 mill which is $2.3 mill higher than the cap hit they were taking each year on them each.

no different than Lu who ended up at like $60.4 mill over 9 years so around a $6.75 mill AAV which is like $1.4 mill higher than his cap hit.

Minny rolled the dice and lost.

Parise has had injury issues but he still wants to play and doesn’t want to land on ltir. Suter has no real injury history but for some reason they want to move on now mainly due to the ED.

can’t imagine that the likes of Dumba, Fiala, KAprizov are interested in signing deals that eat up ufa years when the team has that kind of dead cap 2-4 years from now. Dumba and fiala are ufa in 2023 and KK in 2024. The high dead cap hits go to 2025.

 

[tantalum]

It’s probably a decent role for McGuire. He lives and breathes hockey and is watching tape etc every waking moment when he isn’t on radio or tv. I can’t stand him as a broadcaster but he soaks up a ton of information.

Wouldn’t want him control of a franchise at this point but player development seems like something he is very much suited for. I wish him luck.

 

[StreetHawk]

It’s probably a decent role for McGuire. He lives and breathes hockey and is watching tape etc every waking moment when he isn’t on radio or tv. I can’t stand him as a broadcaster but he soaks up a ton of information.

Wouldn’t want him control of a franchise at this point but player development seems like something he is very much suited for. I wish him luck.

He’s overly positive on every player which is something he will need to drop and be more realistic with expectations.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

He’s overly positive on every player which is something he will need to drop and be more realistic with expectations.

I think that likely has to do with being in a media role. Privately with the rest of the OTT staff I'd assume (like anyone else) more honest about his opinions.

 

[tantalum]

He’s overly positive on every player which is something he will need to drop and be more realistic with expectations.

Like Snatcher I chalk that up to his media personality which is completely non-confrontational and always positive/upbeat. Being a cheerleader is his thing. I think I’ve heard enough honest type interviews from him that he knows the difference between that upbeat messaging and reality.

That said, his ego, love of hearing himself speak and not even remotely understanding analytics will be hurdles to his success in any position moving forward. Have to see how much he is truly willing to learn now that he doesn’t need to sell his character.

 

[krutovsdonut]

with eric johnson waiving his nmc i wonder if there was an issue with suter/parise not waiving their nmc protection playing into the minny buyout decision.

 

[StreetHawk]

with eric johnson waiving his nmc i wonder if there was an issue with suter/parise not waiving their nmc protection playing into the minny buyout decision.

Even if they waived it seems like Minny didn’t want them around.
EJ, Avs are a good team so with a nmc he still holds all the cards. He’s been injured a lot lately but no word that he’s a permanent ltir guy. He’s not worth his $6 mill cap hit anymore. And I don’t see him waiving a nmc to leave a contender.

Parise has basically no market.

Suter would still be a tough deal to make. 4 years is a long time. Maybe he lands On ltir after 2 more years but who knows with them. And maybe Minny didn’t want to end up like Vancouver not knowing if recapture will occur.

 

[F A N]

It’s probably a decent role for McGuire. He lives and breathes hockey and is watching tape etc every waking moment when he isn’t on radio or tv. I can’t stand him as a broadcaster but he soaks up a ton of information.

Wouldn’t want him control of a franchise at this point but player development seems like something he is very much suited for. I wish him luck.

The issue is his reputation for being a know it all? Maybe times have changed and he has gotten better at being a teacher? I would think that a player's respect goes a long way and as much as McGuire soaks up a ton of information it's more chess theory without the ability to play chess. McGuire is almost 60 and his last coaching job was in 1997 in the ECHL. His claim to fame was that the legendary Scottie Bowman loves him.

I actually like McGuire as a broadcaster. He's passionate and a lot of times he's over the top. How does that translate to his new job? Will he be throwing out the names of HOFers or elite players when developing prospects? Sometimes it's more beneficial to get a prospect to play more like Ryan Johnson than a young Chris Higgins.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Would take Suter on the Canucks for a decent reasonable deal. Still a good top 4 D.

 

[F A N]

with eric johnson waiving his nmc i wonder if there was an issue with suter/parise not waiving their nmc protection playing into the minny buyout decision.

Last I heard Suter/Parise were not going be asked to waive and then the buyout rumours started. Looks like a decision to buy them out was made.

 

[Bubbles]

Minnesota can't seriously compete with that much dead cap space in the next four years. Might as well declare a full rebuild and prep for 2025.

I can see Suter signing with Tampa, just for the lulz.

Pretty sure that Parise will sign with the Pens. The Pens really pursued Suter and Parise when they were UFA. Also Parise and Crosby are close. I can see a 1 year, prove it deal a la Corey Perry.

 

[StreetHawk]

Last I heard Suter/Parise were not going be asked to waive and then the buyout rumours started. Looks like a decision to buy them out was made.

More than just the ED with those 2. Even getting by the ED it’s clears BG wanted to move on from both guys. Nmc puts both guys in control. If they don’t land on ltir down the line you are stuck with them on your 23 man roster.
Seeing Luongo hit the Canucks maybe BG wanted to make that call now.

But, man that’s a massive dead cap. Will see where they go from here was both fiala and KK are rfa this summer. Fiala has arbitration rights while KK has no rights for even an OS. But can see both guys deciding it’s better to not sign any ufa years because it’s highly unlikely the Wild can compete with that much dead cap.

 

[F A N]

More than just the ED with those 2. Even getting by the ED it’s clears BG wanted to move on from both guys. Nmc puts both guys in control. If they don’t land on ltir down the line you are stuck with them on your 23 man roster.
Seeing Luongo hit the Canucks maybe BG wanted to make that call now.

But, man that’s a massive dead cap. Will see where they go from here was both fiala and KK are rfa this summer. Fiala has arbitration rights while KK has no rights for even an OS. But can see both guys deciding it’s better to not sign any ufa years because it’s highly unlikely the Wild can compete with that much dead cap.

Does the recapture penalty go away if the player is bought out?

 

[timw33]

Does the recapture penalty go away if the player is bought out?

Yep—Recapture penalty is only if a player retires before they finish their entire term. I think there's only 5 deals that the recap can even apply to now.

 

[vancityluongo]

Yep—Recapture penalty is only if a player retires before they finish their entire term. I think there's only 5 deals that the recap can even apply to now.

It doesn't apply to new deals? Or would the NHL just not allow it?

It'd be unreal if a team like Buffalo or Ottawa purposely signed a negative re-capture contract. Sign a scrub to a massive two year deal with the agreement that they retire after year one. Incur the cap hit while bad, get an additional amount of cap space when you're ready to take the next step.

Guessing there's something in the CBA preventing this... but maybe not. The NHL could almost never surprise me (in a bad way).

 

[F A N]

Yep—Recapture penalty is only if a player retires before they finish their entire term. I think there's only 5 deals that the recap can even apply to now.

That's interesting. I guess it's because the "cap savings" is reflected in the buyout cap hit?

Further to @StreetHawk's comment. That does seem like a good way to take away the recapture penalty risks.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

The past few days have shown me how moronic general managers are in this league.

Ugh.

 

[timw33]

It doesn't apply to new deals? Or would the NHL just not allow it?

It'd be unreal if a team like Buffalo or Ottawa purposely signed a negative re-capture contract. Sign a scrub to a massive two year deal with the agreement that they retire after year one. Incur the cap hit while bad, get an additional amount of cap space when you're ready to take the next step.

Guessing there's something in the CBA preventing this... but maybe not. The NHL could almost never surprise me (in a bad way).

There are a few rules about how you structure your salary these days that prevents it from really being a thing, specifically:

• Front Loaded Contracts: the salary variance in any adjacent years cannot exceed 35% of the salary in the first contract year regardless of whether the salary is increasing or decreasing & the lowest salary year cannot be less than 50% of the highest salary year
• Non-Front Loaded Contracts: any salary increases in adjacent years may not exceed the lower of the first two years of the contract & any salary decreases in adjacent years may not exceed 50% of the lower of the first two years of the contract

Essentially it fully shuts down teams from signing a guy to a 8 year 9MM deal, and then tacking on 4 years at $1MM and making it a $6.33MM cap hit.

The recapture penalty was just a way of dealing with the dozen or so of those 9-13 year contracts signed by guys who were already 28/29/30, then once the 8 year limit and the variance rules came into place it effectively neutered it.

The new thing became loading up the money into annual signing bonuses instead of salaries, but I believe the total outlay of cash can vary no more than 50% over the lifetime of the contract (see Tavares' structure)

 

[vancityluongo]

There are a few rules about how you structure your salary these days that prevents it from really being a thing, specifically:

• Front Loaded Contracts: the salary variance in any adjacent years cannot exceed 35% of the salary in the first contract year regardless of whether the salary is increasing or decreasing & the lowest salary year cannot be less than 50% of the highest salary year
• Non-Front Loaded Contracts: any salary increases in adjacent years may not exceed the lower of the first two years of the contract & any salary decreases in adjacent years may not exceed 50% of the lower of the first two years of the contract

Essentially it fully shuts down teams from signing a guy to a 8 year 9MM deal, and then tacking on 4 years at $1MM and making it a $6.33MM cap hit.

The recapture penalty was just a way of dealing with the dozen or so of those 9-13 year contracts signed by guys who were already 28/29/30

Ah, thanks! But reading this, it doesn't sound like the following contract (to say, 34 year old Tuukka Rask) would be denied?

Year 1: $5M
Year 2: $6M
Year 3: $8M
Year 4: $9.99M

Total salary is $29M, over 4 years that's a cap hit of $7.25M.

But if Rask was to retire after two years, the Sabres (let's say it's them) have paid $11m in cash while incurring a cap hit of $14.25m. So theoretically the differential of $3.25m would be granted in extra cap space over two years?

The rules obviously constrain it quite a bit, so the benefit is not what I thought it could potentially be, but curious if anyone knows if this would be allowed, in theory.

You could make it more egregious for example, by tacking on a 5th year at $9.99m, for a cap hit of $8m and salary paid out at $11m for the first two years. $5m over 3 years in benefit. And so on?

 

[racerjoe]

Ah, thanks! But reading this, it doesn't sound like the following contract (to say, 34 year old Tuukka Rask) would be denied?

Year 1: $5M
Year 2: $6M
Year 3: $8M
Year 4: $9.99M

Total salary is $29M, over 4 years that's a cap hit of $7.25M.

But if Rask was to retire after two years, the Sabres (let's say it's them) have paid $11m in cash while incurring a cap hit of $14.25m. So theoretically the differential of $3.25m would be granted in extra cap space over two years?

The rules obviously constrain it quite a bit, so the benefit is not what I thought it could potentially be, but curious if anyone knows if this would be allowed, in theory.

But then why would the player walk away from 10 mil in 1 year?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Uh... dreaming in technicolour here but Suter would be an unbelievable partner to pair Hughes with.