Around the League | Round 1: FIGHT!

[I am toxic]

The vast majority of those average goalies were either consistent starters or soon became consistent starters after their cup run. And of those, most played above their personal average skill level. There seems to be no precedent of a career backup making it deep in the playoffs, or a goalie prospect that doesn't end up being a consistent starter the next season. Unless you think Silovs is that close to being an NHL starter

Rinne was not average.

And anyone who knows goaltending knows Crawford and Osgoode were way above average, just played on such stacked teams that people underrate them

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Thing is...Vegas was not a lock to hold a playoff position. There is a massive risk in sitting out your best two-way winger, especially when you were bleeding goals against and also having a cast of defenseman that were perpetually injured.

I think it is a low risk, high reward play. Yes they were fighting for a playoff spot, but I don't believe they were ever really at risk of missing. Even without Stone, they still had Eichel, March, Pie, Theodore, and loaded in almost all positions. Heading to the deadline, the Blues were looking to sell (or at least not buy), the Flames were already selling well in advance, the Kraken/Minny weren't buying either and in fact ended up selling. Realistically, no teams below were likely to catch them. However, taking this risk allows them to dress a team with significantly higher payroll than the cap allow, which is a HUGE advantage. Also, taking Stone out and essentially "replacing" him with Hanafin and Mantha, is at worst a slight downgrade to the team overall. Hanafin also came in an opportune time as Pie also missed a few games near the end of the season. So all in all, I would say for them it was well worth the risk.

RIP Bob.

 

[arttk]

Rinne was not average.

And anyone who knows goaltending knows Crawford and Osgoode were way above average, just played on such stacked teams that people underrate them

Rinne won a Vezina lol. Yeah the takes are wild.

Osgood is so underrated is kinda crazy, he was in an era where he was compared against Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur so of course he is going to look "average" when the top tier guys are all HHOF and generational goaltending talent.

Crawford went through multiple cup runs and would've been scouted to death and picked apart if he was truly average. We see what happens regularly when goalies starts more and teams have more scouting on the guy.

oh damn, RIP.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

RIP Bob Cole..Great voice for hockey..He obviously enjoyed his job which lasted decades.

f***ing spectacular game made better by Bob Cole.

 

[MS]

I hated Bob Cole when he was a Leaf homer in the 1990s (94 playoffs in particular) but he really grew on me as the years went on.

Had such passion for the sport and *nobody* made a big play or a big goal sound better, even if he occasionally messed up a name when he was 75+.

Rinne won a Vezina lol. Yeah the takes are wild.

Osgood is so underrated is kinda crazy, he was in an era where he was compared against Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur so of course he is going to look "average" when the top tier guys are all HHOF and generational goaltending talent.

Osgood was a bottom-end starter/backup level goalie who was carried by a roster which was half HHOFers.

I’ve posted the numbers here before and he stunk. Consistently. For a long time.

 

[arttk]

I hated Bob Cole when he was a Leaf homer in the 1990s (94 playoffs in particular) but he really grew on me as the years went on.

Had such passion for the sport and *nobody* made a big play or a big goal sound better, even if he occasionally messed up a name when he was 75+.



Osgood was a bottom-end starter/backup level goalie who was carried by a roster which was half HHOFers.

I’ve posted the numbers here before and he stunk. Consistently. For a long time.

I mean yes, having Lidstrom would boost your numbers because Lidstrom is generational. I think if you look at his body of work, yeah there are seasons where he plays like he is a backup/bottom end starter but there are also seasons where he has played really well and is a legit #1. I mean, can the D be that god damn amazing to push his SV to .930 in the post season where he put up .930. Also he put up .926 in the subsequent post season, the one where they lost to the Pens.

Like I think at a certain point, D can only cover up so much and I am not sure it can cover up to the point where the goalie will post .920+ over 4 rounds.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Condolences to the Cole family.

Absolute legend.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Rinne won a Vezina lol. Yeah the takes are wild.

Osgood is so underrated is kinda crazy, he was in an era where he was compared against Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur so of course he is going to look "average" when the top tier guys are all HHOF and generational goaltending talent.

Crawford went through multiple cup runs and would've been scouted to death and picked apart if he was truly average. We see what happens regularly when goalies starts more and teams have more scouting on the guy.


oh damn, RIP.

I'd say Kuemper was extremely underrated as well because he was known as a platoon guy. But he was putting up .920+ save percentage still as a starter.

 

[arttk]

I'd say Kuemper was extremely underrated as well because he was known as a platoon guy. But he was putting up .920+ save percentage still as a starter.

yeah i think there are guys who are pretty meh if you look at their full body of work but i think the reason is because they have more meh/bad seasons than they have good seasons. But that doesn't mean they weren't good when they had their good seasons and those good seasons are complete one offs.

 

[Nucker101]

rip Bob, definitely a hockey legend

 

[MS]

I mean yes, having Lidstrom would boost your numbers because Lidstrom is generational. I think if you look at his body of work, yeah there are seasons where he plays like he is a backup/bottom end starter but there are also seasons where he has played really well and is a legit #1. I mean, can the D be that god damn amazing to push his SV to .930 in the post season where he put up .930. Also he put up .926 in the subsequent post season, the one where they lost to the Pens.

Like I think at a certain point, D can only cover up so much and I am not sure it can cover up to the point where the goalie will post .920+ over 4 rounds.

I’ll quote myself from the HOH board :

Osgood had 12 years in the league where he played at least 40 games. Here's where he ranked amongst league starters who played in 40+ games in those years:

1993-94 - 18th of 29
1995-96 - 7th of 29
1996-97 - 10th of 28
1997-98 - 10th of 32
1998-99 - 12th of 25
1999-00 - 17th of 28
2000-01 - 20th of 31
2001-02 - 12th of 33
2002-03 - 30th of 30
2003-04 - 19th of 30
2007-08 - 14th of 33
2008-09 - 33rd of 33

That's pretty much the definition of mediocre. He had one quite good season behind a record-setting team where he was higher than 10th in save %, and that was also the only year he received any Vezina consideration. Other than that he was a mid-pack goalie at best and below-average starter at worst.

He left Detroit dead in his prime from age 28-32 and did nothing to distinguish himself on average teams. Got waived by the Islanders at age 30.

He had a couple nice playoff runs late in his career and full marks for that, but he's far from the first average goalie to have a good playoffs or two.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I couldn't stand Cole in the early 00s but I was just thinking how much I missed him the other night watching a playoff game.

I still think Cuthbert is the GOAT though. He always had such great calls.

SCORES BRENDAN MORRISON. THE SILENCER.


SCORES MATT COOKE MATT COOKE 5.4 SECONDS TO GO

 

[mathonwy]

The vast majority of those average goalies were either consistent starters or soon became consistent starters after their cup run. And of those, most played above their personal average skill level. There seems to be no precedent of a career backup making it deep in the playoffs, or a goalie prospect that doesn't end up being a consistent starter the next season. Unless you think Silovs is that close to being an NHL starter

Anything can happen in the playoffs man

 

[Oliewud]

I couldn't stand Cole in the early 00s but I was just thinking how much I missed him the other night watching a playoff game.

I still think Cuthbert is the GOAT though. He always had such great calls.

SCORES BRENDAN MORRISON. THE SILENCER.


SCORES MATT COOKE MATT COOKE 5.4 SECONDS TO GO

 

[Hodgy]

Bob Cole was great. Arguably the greatest hockey voice of all time.

People were unfairly harsh on him when he was in his mid-to-late 70s.

 

[I am toxic]

Anyone who thinks Osgoode was average doesn't have a clue when it comes to goaltending.

 

[Breakers]

Bob Cole was great. Arguably the greatest hockey voice of all time.

People were unfairly harsh on him when he was in his mid-to-late 70s.

Hard core nostalgia hearing those calls

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I couldn't stand Cole in the early 00s but I was just thinking how much I missed him the other night watching a playoff game.

I still think Cuthbert is the GOAT though. He always had such great calls.

SCORES BRENDAN MORRISON. THE SILENCER.


SCORES MATT COOKE MATT COOKE 5.4 SECONDS TO GO

I used to love when his voice would crack when he yelled out SCORES

Bob Cole and Harry Neale were frickin' hilarious to listen to in their 70s though

 

[Vector]

Anyone who thinks Osgoode was average doesn't have a clue when it comes to goaltending.

Love the name drop of noted Hall of Famer Ray Bourke.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

I used to love when his voice would crack when he yelled out SCORES

Bob Cole and Harry Neale were frickin' hilarious to listen to in their 70s though

This game summed up Bob Cole in his later years.

"Passing it around and around, they are killing their own powerplay....scores...well, it was only a matter of time."

 

[vancityluongo]

rest in peace to cole; despite the flubs, he was the voice of some of the biggest hockey games for a long, long time.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I liked Cole's: OOOHH BABY.
Also: "DES-JAR-DINS!"





4:30 on a Friday and 2 on a Sunday... these times suck.

 

[I am toxic]

Love the name drop of noted Hall of Famer Ray Bourke.

I missed the name drop.

Anyway, the debate with Osgood isn't whether he is a good goalie, the debate is when he will be inducted into the HHoF. I think Mike Vernon was last year, not sure which goalies are eligible this year,* but it is just a matter of time.

Not sure why people are embarrassingly choosing to die on this hill. Most people, most hockey people don't have much clue when it comes to goaltending, no shame in admitting it.

Pretending to though, that's not such a good look.

* oh, Rinne and Miller. Funny seeing Rinne there, after he was listed as average, along with Crawford and Osgood.

 

[arttk]

I’ll quote myself from the HOH board :

Osgood had 12 years in the league where he played at least 40 games. Here's where he ranked amongst league starters who played in 40+ games in those years:

1993-94 - 18th of 29
1995-96 - 7th of 29
1996-97 - 10th of 28
1997-98 - 10th of 32
1998-99 - 12th of 25
1999-00 - 17th of 28
2000-01 - 20th of 31
2001-02 - 12th of 33
2002-03 - 30th of 30
2003-04 - 19th of 30
2007-08 - 14th of 33
2008-09 - 33rd of 33

That's pretty much the definition of mediocre. He had one quite good season behind a record-setting team where he was higher than 10th in save %, and that was also the only year he received any Vezina consideration. Other than that he was a mid-pack goalie at best and below-average starter at worst.

He left Detroit dead in his prime from age 28-32 and did nothing to distinguish himself on average teams. Got waived by the Islanders at age 30.

He had a couple nice playoff runs late in his career and full marks for that, but he's far from the first average goalie to have a good playoffs or two.

I don’t think we are saying he is a great goalie, just talking about how underrated he is. Like having several good cup runs over a long NHL career being a starter is not that common.
You don’t become a starter for a winning team for like 8 seasons and going on 3 deep runs and winning 2 Stanley cup by being below average starter or backup goalie level.

 

[Vector]

I missed the name drop.

Anyway, the debate with Osgood isn't whether he is a good goalie, the debate is when he will be inducted into the HHoF. I think Mike Vernon was last year, not sure which goalies are eligible this year,* but it is just a matter of time.

Not sure why people are embarrassingly choosing to die on this hill. Most people, most hockey people don't have much clue when it comes to goaltending, no shame in admitting it.

Pretending to though, that's not such a good look.

* oh, Rinne and Miller. Funny seeing Rinne there, after he was listed as average, along with Crawford and Osgood.