Around the League - Pre-season 2015 Edition

[PG Canuck]

Police have stated that they have the rape kit and it has not been tampered with.

There's also an anonymous source stating that none of Kane's DNA was present in samples.

the tampering bag is either real or it isn't.

If it's real, not sure what the message is by having it sent there.

If it's fake, it's the attorney of the alleged victim creating an idea that the kit has been tampered with after finding out his DNA was not present (if that rumour is true).

either way, it's a circus.

The only DNA that was found of Kane's on her, was under her fingernails.

 

[Samzilla]

The only DNA that was found of Kane's on her, was under her fingernails.

Heard on the thread on the main board when the news broke that there was no DNA below the waist, that it was found under her fingernails and on the bite mark.

So no to the bite mark?

 

[PG Canuck]

Heard on the thread on the main board when the news broke that there was no DNA below the waist, that it was found under her fingernails and on the bite mark.

So no to the bite mark?

I have no idea. Just heard about the fingernails. Don't care enough to read any deeper as it's a screwed up case.

 

[PM]

Didn't all the DNA stuff come out of Kane's camp and wasn't actually provided by an credible sources? I believe the accuser's lawyer also mentioned that there were a number of information leaks that he was disgusted with or something along those lines. Sounds like at the very least that something dirty is going on in Buffalo with this case.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Police have stated that they have the rape kit and it has not been tampered with.

There's also an anonymous source stating that none of Kane's DNA was present in samples.

the tampering bag is either real or it isn't.

If it's real, not sure what the message is by having it sent there.

If it's fake, it's the attorney of the alleged victim creating an idea that the kit has been tampered with after finding out his DNA was not present (if that rumour is true).

either way, it's a circus.

But it's also been reported that the ripped tampering bag was authentic, begging the question who got it, how and why?

 

[me2]

But it's also been reported that the ripped tampering bag was authentic, begging the question who got it, how and why?

Bettman and Fehr helped Kane infiltrate like Tom Cruise in mission impossible.

 

[Jack Tripper]

one of the most bizarre turns of events i've ever read about

 

[Intangibos]

Why should Kane not be allowed to practice? He still hasn't been charged with anything. If he does actually get charged, then by all means suspend him, but until then he should be allowed to continue his career.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Why should Kane not be allowed to practice? He still hasn't been charged with anything. If he does actually get charged, then by all means suspend him, but until then he should be allowed to continue his career.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Let him do whatever he wants until he gets arrested.

 

[DFAC]

Not sure if posted yet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/kings-player-conduct-initiatives-1.3237895

 

[SighReally]

Why should Kane not be allowed to practice? He still hasn't been charged with anything. If he does actually get charged, then by all means suspend him, but until then he should be allowed to continue his career.

Innocent until proven guilty.

Let him do whatever he wants until he gets arrested.

Because that's not how it works? No matter what spiel like Brian Burke will come up with, about "guys can come into work if they haven't been charged etc," that's not how it works in real life.

Firstly, look at the own CBA. Specifically, Article 18-A.2, where it specifically dictates:

18-A.2 Commissioner Authority to Impose Discipline for Off-Ice Conduct.
Whenever the Commissioner determines that a Player has violated a League Rule applicable to Players (other than Playing Rules subjecting the Player to potential Supplementary Discipline for On-Ice Conduct), or has been or is guilty of conduct (whether during or outside the playing season) that is detrimental to or against the welfare of the League or the game of hockey, he may discipline such Player in any or all of the following respects:

(a) by expelling or suspending such Player for a definite or indefinite period;

The league has the absolute right to bring punishment down to any player including suspension if they feel that the conduct of the player in question brings the reputation of the game and the league into question. A fact that has been parroted around the hockey world but people still don't seem to want to listen.

Like it or not, Kane is an absolute detriment to this game, especially with today's fiasco. Tampering of evidence is a serious crime, a felony, and couple that with a high profile rape investigation of the best player in the world, brings into question the reputation of NHL players and the league itself. This case is the icing on the cake on what's been a tumultuous summer for the NHL. Right now, a New Jersey Devil prospect is in court for two sexual assault charges. Ribeiro just settled his civil court case on allegations of sexual allegation and he's not shaking off the reputation of a sexual predator any time soon, especially given his past reputation. Believe it or not, the NHL has an issue on their hands.

I believe it's one thing to think that Kane has the right to his day in court. In the eyes of the law, he hasn't been proven to have broken the law. However, reputations, rumours, and public discourse don't play within the realms of the law and in the minds of the public, Kane's guilt is more likely due to his reputation, actions and run-ins with the law. The reputation the NHL builds isn't based on guilt in the eyes of the court but in the eyes of the public and the sports world. It's naive to think that Kane has all the right to play in the preseason when millions of eyes are fixed onto the spectacle, the gongshow that's forming in the NHL's own backyard. Though I won't lie, it's hilariously sad how the Blackhawks and NHL gave their public backing of Kane right before today's press conference. In the eyes of the public, Kane's footing just took another dip and the NHL is slowly digging themselves a hole, regardless of Kane being guilty or not.

Both the Erie and Hamburg police have made statements that all protocol have been followed and that all evidence is accounted for. The victim's lawyers have proof that the evidence bag is legitimate. There is an obvious disconnect of logic here and this could blow up especially with the state attorney and potentially the FBI getting involved. This isn't what the NHL needs right now. They should have distanced themselves away from Kane but they didn't and they're reaping the fruits of labour.

Oh and as for the courts of your minds: lack of DNA below the waist doesn't exonerate at all. For example, effective usage of a condom would prevent transmission of DNA from one party to another. And lest anyone starts speculating about other DNA found below the waist or Kane's under the fingernails: don't. Speculation of origin of DNA on the fingernails or below the waist will not exonerate or condemn Kane simply because no one has the full picture.

 

[me2]

Because that's not how it works? No matter what spiel like Brian Burke will come up with, about "guys can come into work if they haven't been charged etc," that's not how it works in real life.

Firstly, look at the own CBA. Specifically, Article 18-A.2, where it specifically dictates:



The league has the absolute right to bring punishment down to any player including suspension if they feel that the conduct of the player in question brings the reputation of the game and the league into question. A fact that has been parroted around the hockey world but people still don't seem to want to listen.

Didn't that passage list it in absolutes?

"Has violated" "has been or is guilty"

Kane denies it, NHLPA jumps all over Bettman.

 

[vanuck]

Not sure if posted yet

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/kings-player-conduct-initiatives-1.3237895

With the sort of character in that dressing room, how on earth did the Kings win 2 cups in 3 years eh!

 

[Intangibos]

So you're saying if anyone accuses any NHL player of anything illegal, they should be suspended? Maybe next time the Penguins are in the playoffs fans from the other team can throw around accusations at Crosby and Malkin. There is a fair chance that Kane is guilty, but it's a dangerous precedent to set where just an accusation without any evidence can end your career.

Not to mention the liability the NHL would face for derailing Kane's career if the accusations turn out to be false.

This isn't a guy who is working with children or something, he isn't a teacher, he isn't a police officer, he isn't a medical professional. He skates up and down an ice surface and plays with a round rubber cylinder with a stick. Taking him off the ice accomplishes nothing except hurting his career, and hurting the Blackhawks, and hurting both league and team revenue. What if the Hawks miss the playoffs by a few points because Kane wasn't playing, and he was acquitted later? You think that wouldn't be a bigger problem for the NHL than Kane doing his job? Interesting world view, for sure.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

In a sort of irony. Our current administration is obsessed with character and leadership, yet the two reigning dynasties have been rocked hard by scandals from pill-popping, wife beating and accusations of rape being perpetuated by these teams' key players.

I'm not advocating getting problem players to play on the team but it just shows skill is skill and as long as guys can cooperate on the ice, it really doesn't matter if they're helping the blind to read or whatever.

 

[Intangibos]

In a sort of irony. Our current administration is obsessed with character and leadership, yet the two reigning dynasties have been rocked hard by scandals from pill-popping, wife beating and accusations of rape being perpetuated by these teams' key players.

I'm not advocating getting problem players to play on the team but it just shows skill is skill and as long as guys can cooperate on the ice, it really doesn't matter if they're helping the blind to read or whatever.

Captain Serious would never allow such things to happen in his dressing room. He is the greatest captain and for a team to succeed you have to have good character. I'm sure if Kane ever were charged, the jurors would know that character builds champions and there is no way Kane and the Hawks would win multiple cups if they weren't real good down to earth real good guys. That's why teams with bozos and European softies like the Canucks lose to real good down to earth real good hard working Bruins like Lucic. Maybe the police should look into those creepy looking guys, the Sedins. That euro is one of the worst Captains in the league with all those lockerroom cancers, maybe he should get investigated instead of wasting resources on the real good Hawks.

 

[vanuck]

Yeah, in Benning's narrow view there is no way people like Kane, Richards, Stoll and Voynov could have the character to succeed as they aren't "good people" and according to him having a culture of Real Good People is the most important factor in winning.

Logically there's no way to reconcile the two. So pick one Jim.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Why should Kane not be allowed to practice? He still hasn't been charged with anything. If he does actually get charged, then by all means suspend him, but until then he should be allowed to continue his career.

So you're saying if anyone accuses any NHL player of anything illegal, they should be suspended? Maybe next time the Penguins are in the playoffs fans from the other team can throw around accusations at Crosby and Malkin. There is a fair chance that Kane is guilty, but it's a dangerous precedent to set where just an accusation without any evidence can end your career.

Not to mention the liability the NHL would face for derailing Kane's career if the accusations turn out to be false.

This isn't a guy who is working with children or something, he isn't a teacher, he isn't a police officer, he isn't a medical professional. He skates up and down an ice surface and plays with a round rubber cylinder with a stick. Taking him off the ice accomplishes nothing except hurting his career, and hurting the Blackhawks, and hurting both league and team revenue. What if the Hawks miss the playoffs by a few points because Kane wasn't playing, and he was acquitted later? You think that wouldn't be a bigger problem for the NHL than Kane doing his job? Interesting world view, for sure.

If you were under investigation for a serious crime your employer would be well within their rights to suspend with pay. It's a pretty common and acceptable practice to deal with potentially serious investigations (albeit more traditional in a workplace less exclusive than an NHL roster).

There's a good argument that the risks to the Hawks or league is actually more significant in letting him practice and play. If he's convicted after, the impacts to both the team and the league turning a blind eye to it are much more significant than a point or two in the standings, they would then be protecting a rapist.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Yeah, in Benning's narrow view there is no way people like Kane, Richards, Stoll and Voynov could have the character to succeed as they aren't "good people" and according to him having a culture of Real Good People is the most important factor in winning.

Logically there's no way to reconcile the two. So pick one Jim.

Voynov and Richard's careers are both essentially over. It's reasonable to assume that Richard's drug use had a serious impact on his on ice play. Cup or otherwise those players 'character' was a severe hindrance to their on ice performance and significantly hurt their club.

Moreover, Voynov is a garbage human, and while I think there are many dubious character issues passed around in discussions about players, the propensity to the beat the **** out of a wife/girlfriend is one worth .

 

[drax0s]

Yeah, in Benning's narrow view there is no way people like Kane, Richards, Stoll and Voynov could have the character to succeed as they aren't "good people" and according to him having a culture of Real Good People is the most important factor in winning.

Logically there's no way to reconcile the two. So pick one Jim.

Another possibility - what you're interpreting them using "character" means isn't what they are using "character" to mean. Kind of like people assuming Jim using "Meat and Potatoes" means big and tough instead of what the phrase actually means -- "Simple and not flashy".

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

If you were under investigation for a serious crime your employer would be well within their rights to suspend with pay. It's a pretty common and acceptable practice to deal with potentially serious investigations (albeit more traditional in a workplace less exclusive than an NHL roster).

There's a good argument that the risks to the Hawks or league is actually more significant in letting him practice and play. If he's convicted after, the impacts to both the team and the league turning a blind eye to it are much more significant than a point or two in the standings, they would then be protecting a rapist.

No they wouldn't. As it stands, there is no evidence to suggest Kane is a rapist. If they did attempt to suspend him, the NHLPA would be well within their rights to sue them, especially if it turned out to be a false accusation. Voynov was suspended because there wasn't any plausible deniability to his crime. What you're suggesting is a guilty until proven innocent narrative.

 

[Intangibos]

What liability do you think the Hawks have by letting him play? Do you think he's going to hop over the boards and rape a fan? Letting the police and judges do the job we pay them to do. Preventing Kane from playing and even practicing with the team isn't protecting a rapist, even if he ends up being guilty.

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

No they wouldn't. As it stands, there is no evidence to suggest Kane is a rapist. If they did attempt to suspend him, the NHLPA would be well within their rights to sue them, especially if it turned out to be a false accusation. Voynov was suspended because there wasn't any plausible deniability to his crime. What you're suggesting is a guilty until proven innocent narrative.

This is a terrible piece of reasoning. Innocent until guilty is only about criminal law, it does not protect your other privileges and is certainly not a shield from other consequences to your actions. It only protects you from criminal or penal consequences.

The Blackhawks absolutely should have held him out of camp, and absolutely should not have let him do media.

A suspension from work with pay is quite standard in cases where an employees conduct may be detrimental to the organization while an investigation concludes, especially in unionized workplaces. Quite simply because it leads to virtually no harm to the individual being investigated, removes them from the workplace temporarily, prevents them from being a distraction, and prevents them from potentially doing harm to another employee in the interim (if the investigation is into an act of violence).

The league telling Kane he can collect cheques at home until this is resolved is not worth grieving for the union. The PA certainly wouldn't oppose it, because it's their union member collecting cheques and not having to work. The Blackhawks might out of self-interest, but the league would put them in the spot of having to be outspoken about the privileges of their employee involved in a rape investigation.

The league just took a weak PR angle on this case, and decided that they would essentially sit on their hands and say nothing in hopes that the team would act. It's lazy, and frankly disrespectful if you know anyone who's been sexually assaulted.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

In a sort of irony. Our current administration is obsessed with character and leadership, yet the two reigning dynasties have been rocked hard by scandals from pill-popping, wife beating and accusations of rape being perpetuated by these teams' key players.

I'm not advocating getting problem players to play on the team but it just shows skill is skill and as long as guys can cooperate on the ice, it really doesn't matter if they're helping the blind to read or whatever.

Yea, and now one is in siberia, the other was pretty much booted off the team, the other go's on suspension.

with your reasoning you'd have thought LA would have kept Richards and fought to keep the domestic abuser in LA

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

Yea, and now one is in siberia, the other was pretty much booted off the team, the other go's on suspension.

with your reasoning you'd have thought LA would have kept Richards and fought to keep the domestic abuser in LA

Pretty obvious Richards severe decline in play was not exactly unrelated to drug abuse.