Around the League - 2022 offseason thread

[Saugus]

Glad to see Luongo go in during his first year of eligibility. I've always argued he should be in and thought he'd eventually get in, but was very skeptical he'd be a first ballot hall of famer.

Lundqvist will definitely be class of 2023.

I honestly didn't realize that Luongo was eligible yet. Doesn't seem like he's been out of the league for that long. Glad to see him get in.

Would have been hilarious if one Sedin twin got in and the other had to wait.

 

[JimEIV]

Luongo is a first ballot HOF? Doesn't that seems odd for a goalie that never won a Vezina and never had much playoff success.

I'm not sure Luongo had a much better career than Curtis Joseph?

 

[Bleedred]

Luongo is a first ballot HOF? Doesn't that seems odd for a goalie that never won a Vezina and never had much playoff success.

I'm not sure Luongo had a much better career than Curtis Joseph?

I think he was way better than Joseph.

His only bad year in the league was his final season at 39 years old. He had two other below average seasons (rookie year and lockout shortened year) where he played just 24 games in one and 20 in the other.

He hardly even had any kind of a decline before that and was pretty consistently good. Played as well in his mid to late 30's as he did in his late 20's.

He had a goals saved against average of +270.3 to Joseph's +126.8 in his career.

Joseph probably hung around too long and had some poor seasons at the end. Cujo did play into his 40's, whereas Luongo played just one game 2 days after his 40th birthday (it was against us lol) and that was it.

Luongo actually had a +85-ish better goals saved against average than Lundqvist did. The biggest difference was Lundqvist started declining around 34 years old, where Luongo really didn't decline until 39 years old and that was his last year in the league.

 

[JimEIV]

I think he was way better than Joseph.

His only bad year in the league was his final season at 39 years old. He had two other below average seasons (rookie year and lockout shortened year) where he played just 24 games in one and 20 in the other.

He hardly even had any kind of a decline before that and was pretty consistently good. Played as well in his mid to late 30's as he did in his late 20's.

He had a goals saved against average of +270.3 to Joseph's +126.8 in his career.

Joseph probably hung around too long and had some poor seasons at the end. Cujo did play into his 40's, whereas Luongo played just one game 2 days after his 40th birthday (it was against us lol) and that was it.

Luongo actually had a +85-ish better goals saved against average than Lundqvist did. The biggest difference was Lundqvist started declining around 34 years old, where Luongo really didn't decline until 39 years old and that was his last year in the league.

Ok, but do you think he's worthy of being a first ballot HOFer? I'll defer to you, I don't pay attention to goalies but it would seem without playoff success and never winning a Vezina he should have been on at on the back burner for the HOF?

 

[Bcap88]

fun fact, mcdavid led the playoffs in scoring despite playing one less series

 

[Beastdog75]

I was seriously gonna start looking at some of the 80's (or even 70's or prior for the Canadiens) Canadiens and Oilers rosters for guys that aren't in the HOF to try and guess the potential WTF induction. I figure Dave Semenko or Dave Hunter might potentially be next. It seems like they just might induct everybody from the 80's Oilers, especially the more years/cup years they played there.

I was kind of thinking along the same lines as you. I thought to myself, well Randy Gregg won 5 cups with the Oilers, are they gonna induct him? Glad to see no BS inductees this year.

 

[Bleedred]

Ok, but do you think he's worthy of being a first ballot HOFer? I'll defer to you, I don't pay attention to goalies but it would seem without playoff success and never winning a Vezina he should have been on at on the back burner for the HOF?

I have argued that Luongo SHOULD be in the HOF for years now, but I am somewhat surprised he got in first ballot.

I really thought he might have gone 5 years past eligibility before getting in.

He should have probably won the Vezina in 03-04. The best they gave him was a third place finish that year. Marty won the Vezina that year. Looking back on it, I would have given him the Vezina over Brodeur that year. I think the reason he didn't get the Vezina (or second place) was because his wins/loss record was ridiculously lopsided that year. He was 25-33-14 that year, but he had a .931% on an absolutely awful team. Typically, they don't give the Vezina to goalies on a non-playoff making team, so I understand why he lost out that year. Still to this day I think Bobrovsky in 12-13 is the only goalie to win the Vezina on a non-playoff team and that was a lockout shortened 48 game season.

He came in 2nd to Marty once again in 06-07, but I do think Marty deserved the Vezina over him that year. Brodeur had the higher save percentage by one point and he played in two more games. Luongo did play 76 games that year, but Brodeur played in 78. So I'm willing to give Luongo Brodeur's Vezina from 03-04, but not 06-07, but he is an extremely close second for me that year.

I think Brodeur's 06-07 and 07-08 seasons were his best, when you factor regular season only. I would argue his 07-08 season was better than his 06-07 season. Save percentage was 2 points lower, but he also only had 4 shutouts to 12. His save percentage being 2 points lower in 07-08 than in 06-07, but with 8 fewer shutouts. He didn't many shutouts that year and surely not enough to bloat his save percentage like it probably did the year before, but that means he was playing even better in the games he wasn't getting shutouts in IMO.

Luongo's career for me was more about how consistently well he played for the duration of his career, despite no personal accolades in the NHL.

However, he did play VERY BADLY in the 2011 SCF, in the one time he made the finals. And he also made a comment about Tim Thomas and his over-aggressiveness causing him to allow the one and only goal of game 5 of that series where Luongo and the Canucks won the game 1-0. Luongo was blown up and chased early the next game with a chance to clinch the cup and then allowed 3 or 4 the next game too. And he allowed 8 goals in a game earlier that series.

 

[MadDevil]

Ok, but do you think he's worthy of being a first ballot HOFer? I'll defer to you, I don't pay attention to goalies but it would seem without playoff success and never winning a Vezina he should have been on at on the back burner for the HOF?

He didn't have much playoff success, but he's 4th all time in wins, which I would think qualifies for a first ballot HOFer.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Hard to deny a Dman when he leads his team in scoring by 4 points on the way to the Cup... 5 points over MacKinnon.

29 points in 20 games is pretty incredible.

Like a Brian Leetch situation over Messier

yes I really can’t quibble with it. The game winning goal, that was Mackinnon though. And a bounce. A major league bounce in the opposite direction. Gosh what a role luck plays.

A baseball hits a pebble and hits Tony Kubek in the throat. (The Yankees did end up winning that one though on the hardest line drive ever hit for a final World Series out - Willie McCovey into Bobby Richardson’s glove - or am I mixing it up - maybe the Kubek bounce led to Mazaroski winning a series for the Pirates on what is still the only game 7 walk off home run in series’ history).

 

[Eggtimer]

Idiots on FAN 960 were saying that Justin Williams should make the HOF next year and didn’t mention Elias at all …. I had to text in and ask WTF

Bobby “Bigpads” Lu started over 1000 games … that’s crazy for a goalie

 

[Goptor]

Luongo is a first ballot HOF? Doesn't that seems odd for a goalie that never won a Vezina and never had much playoff success.

I'm not sure Luongo had a much better career than Curtis Joseph?

I don't think the voters really care about the first ballot stuff. Its the other sports where the voters intentionally leave players off their first year for some special "first ballot" honor.

If it was a big deal then it would have been a major highlight in the media release.

 

[JimEIV]

He didn't have much playoff success, but he's 4th all time in wins, which I would think qualifies for a first ballot HOFer.

Curtis Joseph is 7th all time in wins and not in the Hall of Fame.

Joseph actually has a better win% and twice the playoff wins. Won 454 games in 943 games and 63 playoff wins in 133 games. Joseph was a top 3 Vezina finalist 3 times - Luongo also 3 times. When Joseph retired in 2009 he was actually 4th all time in wins. Since Fluery, Lundqvist and Luongo passed him

This sort of what I mean... Luongo was better but not 1st ballot to not good enough to be in better. I don't care really...just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Edit: where I do care is Elias getting skipped for someone who may not even have been the best choice at his position or at least a debatable choice.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Elias had a better career ppg than either Sedin twin by the way...

 

[NJDevs26]

He didn't have much playoff success, but he's 4th all time in wins, which I would think qualifies for a first ballot HOFer.

The Marc-Andre Fleury debate's gonna be lit. He'll get in because he's compiled so much AND has won a couple of Cups, but people will complain he's only getting in as a compiler.

 

[Blender]

Patrik Elias - 0.83 pts/gp
Henrik Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.93 pts/gp

Elias is easily the best defensive player of that list as well. Can anyone explain this one to me?

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

There have been some other questionable inductions that are worse than the Sedins, but I still don't understand how Turgeon isn't in. Sure he never "felt" like a Hall of Famer, but neither did Andreychuk or Cicarelli. And I don't think the Sedins felt like HOFers either. I don't understand how it was seen as a lock that they would be in.

 

[Goptor]

Patrik Elias - 0.83 pts/gp
Henrik Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.93 pts/gp

Elias is easily the best defensive player of that list as well. Can anyone explain this one to me?

Played for Canadian teams.

Hall of fame's #1 goal is to sell tickets and those three will attract more people in Toronto.

 

[Saugus]

Patrik Elias - 0.83 pts/gp
Henrik Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.93 pts/gp

Elias is easily the best defensive player of that list as well. Can anyone explain this one to me?

Clearly the HHoF is biased toward Swedes.

 

[BurntToast]

Patrik Elias - 0.83 pts/gp
Henrik Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Sedin - 0.80 pts/gp
Daniel Alfredsson - 0.93 pts/gp

Elias is easily the best defensive player of that list as well. Can anyone explain this one to me?

Elias is the second best Czech, the number #1, is Jagr (Legend)!

He has 2 Lord Stanleys , 1 Olympic medal, 2 World medals.

Elias has over 1K points and holds most of the Devils’ offensive records.

But the HOF is a popularity contest and they lost all credibility with not putting Burns in before his death.

 

[njdevils1982]

Curtis Joseph is 7th all time in wins and not in the Hall of Fame.

Joseph actually has a better win% and twice the playoff wins. Won 454 games in 943 games and 63 playoff wins in 133 games. Joseph was a top 3 Vezina finalist 3 times - Luongo also 3 times. When Joseph retired in 2009 he was actually 4th all time in wins. Since Fluery, Lundqvist and Luongo passed him

This sort of what I mean... Luongo was better but not 1st ballot to not good enough to be in better. I don't care really...just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Edit: where I do care is Elias getting skipped for someone who may not even have been the best choice at his position or at least a debatable choice.

cujo was the all time loss leader 352 before marty took it for the record book... (which was inevitable as he was a stallion)


marty 397 L ...next active is MAF with 299 L

NHL Progressive Leaders and Records for Losses | Hockey-Reference.com

NHL Progressive Leaders and Records for Losses

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Jack Be Quick]

The Marc-Andre Fleury debate's gonna be lit. He'll get in because he's compiled so much AND has won a couple of Cups, but people will complain he's only getting in as a compiler.

The debate ended when he won a Vezina.

 

[Brodeur]

Ok, but do you think he's worthy of being a first ballot HOFer? I'll defer to you, I don't pay attention to goalies but it would seem without playoff success and never winning a Vezina he should have been on at on the back burner for the HOF?

Not sure if the voters consider it, but since it's the hockey HOF, they're supposed to consider international events as well.

Luongo had a couple WJCs, won a World Championship in 2004 as a starter, won Gold as a backup to Marty at the World Cup in 2004, won Gold taking over for Marty at the 2010 Olympics, won Gold as a backup to Price in 2014.

CuJo's international resume wasn't quite as extensive: Silver at the 1996 Worlds as starter, Silver at 1996 World Cup as starter, Gold at 2002 Olympics as backup.

 

[MadDevil]

The Marc-Andre Fleury debate's gonna be lit. He'll get in because he's compiled so much AND has won a couple of Cups, but people will complain he's only getting in as a compiler.

Over 500 wins, multiple Cups, and a Vezina...I don't think it's really even a debate anymore.

 

[Brodeur]

I bought Brian Burke's book awhile back and he had an entertaining chapter on procuring the Sedins. Part of it was patting himself on the back for pulling off the trade, although he did admit that he didn't like them the first time he saw them.

Calgary Flames vs. Vancouver Canucks Box Score: April 14, 1999 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Calgary Flames vs. Vancouver Canucks game played on April 14, 1999 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

One interesting "what if" was in the last game of the regular season, Vancouver lost in regulation against Calgary with a last second goal by Cory Stillman. If Vancouver had earned at least a tie in that game, they would have flipped spots with the Islanders. Assuming Chicago still wins the lottery, Vancouver would have been picking 5th instead of 3rd.

Burke tried to be coy about his interest in both Sedins after the lottery. According to him, Chicago approached him first about the #3 pick as they wanted to draft both Sedins. Instead Burke said no way and instead asked Chicago about the #4 pick. Eventually they worked out a deal for a young Bryan McCabe and a future #1.

But it's interesting to think whether in that parallel world, the Sedins start together with the Islanders or Blackhawks. Although Mike Milbury probably would have found a way to screw that up.

 

[njdevils1982]

longevity, durability ... i dont discount these factors


what good is lindros and his career 58 games played average over a sporatic 13 seasons.