Around the League 20 - Well.... we're waiting

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Svechhammer

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Dudley leaving is pretty interesting. His biggest value is going and watching hockey games in person to scout. That’s pretty much all he does as a person. That’s probably not going to happen this year so Dundon sees no value. I don’t blame him.
I mean, as much as we are going balls deep with analytics in our decision making, it does make sense that we won't value the role of an in person scout that highly going forward. Especially when there is enough film out there on every player that it might be cheaper to just pay for the tape of players we're targeting rather than the full salary and benefits of an employee.
 

Finnish Jerk Train

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I've only been to Hartford once, but it left me with the impression that it's been in a tailspin for a long time. The main thing I remember was having a completely packed car and worrying that somebody was going to break into it. This was in the city, not the suburbs - it sounds like things are a little nicer outside of the urban core. I can't speak intelligently on what ails the city or how to fix it, but I hope they can turn things around.
 
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Joe McGrath

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Hartford is a gong show to be sure, but they’ve accepted the minor league identity at this point. There are now 3 minor league teams in the city, 2 with new or completely redone stadiums. The only people who even consider Hartford as a place an NHL team could be are a few delusional morons and out of towners who have no idea.
 
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WreckingCrew

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Hartford is a gong show to be sure, but they’ve accepted the minor league identity at this point. There are now 3 minor league teams in the city, 2 with new or completely redone stadiums. The only people who even consider Hartford as a place an NGL team could be are a few delusional morons and out of towners who have no idea.
Hard to say you deserve an NHL team when the AHL squad hasn't attracted more than 4600 (average) since 05-06 (exception being 10-11 when they were rebranding as the Whale). For comparison, Charlotte hasn't had <4600 since 03-04...when they were a struggling ECHL team under Don McAdam who'd long worn out his welcome...
 

Joe McGrath

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Hard to say you deserve an NHL team when the AHL squad hasn't attracted more than 4600 (average) since 05-06 (exception being 10-11 when they were rebranding as the Whale). For comparison, Charlotte hasn't had <4600 since 03-04...when they were a struggling ECHL team under Don McAdam who'd long worn out his welcome...

Thats not really relevant. They’d get 10k people to sign up for season tickets day 1 of you told them it was an NHL team. Well maybe not today. It’s been a looooong time.

Do you think if the Canes left and put the Checkers in PNC (or whoever) they’d draw anything?
 

bleedgreen

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Hard to say you deserve an NHL team when the AHL squad hasn't attracted more than 4600 (average) since 05-06 (exception being 10-11 when they were rebranding as the Whale). For comparison, Charlotte hasn't had <4600 since 03-04...when they were a struggling ECHL team under Don McAdam who'd long worn out his welcome...
You can’t take the pro team away and have them put the Rangers minor league team in their place and expect it to do well in the early days. It had been made clear the league thought CT fans would have plenty of other teams to root for like the Rangers.....and then they literally put their minor league team there. I had left already but I would’ve had nothing but the middle finger for that. To this day I’ve gone to see two games with my nephews.

They already proved they had fans in the first place. Not that I think they’re getting a team back, or that they should get a team back. Just don’t see what you’re saying as relevant for that market.
 

WreckingCrew

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Thats not really relevant. They’d get 10k people to sign up for season tickets day 1 of you told them it was an NHL team. Well maybe not today. It’s been a looooong time.

Do you think if the Canes left and put the Checkers in PNC (or whoever) they’d draw anything?
Honestly I think they'd do just as well as in Charlotte...lots of college kids can't afford to go to Canes games, but they could absolutely afford an AHL game. If there was an AHL team while I was @ State, I'd have had season tickets or at least a hefty mini-plan (too much schoolwork to make all the games). Just like while Atlanta has failed to hold their NHL teams, I think AHL could absolutely thrive there (and why I don't understand why Houston lost their team and hasn't been replaced). And I get what @bleedgreen is saying, it's kind of like what happened in Greensboro when the Monarchs got ousted for the Canes, the Generals just never quite caught on the same and there's still resentment about hockey there. I remember when they tried to draw on the Whaler market with the "Connecticut Whale" rebranding...I don't believe it went over too particularly well (kinda like some people freak out when the Canes do Whalers, but way way worse).
 

Joe McGrath

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Honestly I think they'd do just as well as in Charlotte...lots of college kids can't afford to go to Canes games, but they could absolutely afford an AHL game. If there was an AHL team while I was @ State, I'd have had season tickets or at least a hefty mini-plan (too much schoolwork to make all the games). Just like while Atlanta has failed to hold their NHL teams, I think AHL could absolutely thrive there (and why I don't understand why Houston lost their team and hasn't been replaced). And I get what @bleedgreen is saying, it's kind of like what happened in Greensboro when the Monarchs got ousted for the Canes, the Generals just never quite caught on the same and there's still resentment about hockey there. I remember when they tried to draw on the Whaler market with the "Connecticut Whale" rebranding...I don't believe it went over too particularly well (kinda like some people freak out when the Canes do Whalers, but way way worse).

They did the best as the Whale, and it was all marketing. I said from the minute they left if they were the Hartford Whalers in the AHL they’d have been a very stable AHL franchise.

Instead they took the MSG money and it is what it is.
 

WreckingCrew

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They did the best as the Whale, and it was all marketing. I said from the minute they left if they were the Hartford Whalers in the AHL they’d have been a very stable AHL franchise.

Instead they took the MSG money and it is what it is.
That I 100% understand and agree with... it's like when Canes moved Albany River Rats and Checkers ECHL were leaving, there was no way the AHL squad was going to be anything other than the Charlotte Checkers...just too much history not to carry on the identity. I think that Hartford market just got wrecked, combine that the area has stagnated and it just doesn't seem (from an outside perspective) like a suitable NHL market anymore, as passionate as the remaining fans are
 
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HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
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People can hate Bettman all they want, but he made the NHL bigger, richer, and more accessible.

On the topic of Hartford. A small city that is in the vicinity of New York, New Jersey, and Boston. Yup, that's gonna work. Last time I checked they were the 4th biggest city in their state.

On the topic of Quebec.

They are French Canadiens. They are practically begging me to joke about them.


The thing about this is, you really can't judge a city based on sole population alone because the raw numbers don't tell the whole story. Jacksonville (FL) is a good example of this, largest city in the state but nowhere near the size of Orlando, Miami, or Tampa/St Pete in metro numbers. Hell even Cary isn't that much smaller than Salt Lake City (the actual city), and they've got the NBA and MLS.

Well, an argument in favor of Hartford would be similar to the OKC argument in the NBA. A small market that is also the only pro-sports game in town, with the entire state supporting you. The issue in Hartford isn't the size of the market, though, but rather that much of the wealth that it used to have has moved away from there and towards lower-tax states, particularly Florida, North Carolina, and Texas. That's the real reason why a Whalers return is difficult, if not impossible.

I was just thinking about this. The only NHL-only state is Nevada, and that is now no more now with the Raiders in town. Maybe the Canes should try Myrtle Beach and give those Palmetto Staters something to root for besides college students playing pigskin :sarcasm:

As someone who grew up in CT and goes back (when not forbidden by ******* quarantine) I would have lost that bet on Hartford.
2 things I learned today that stunned me:
1) Stamford is now the #2 city in CT
2) Cary is bigger than every city in CT.

No joke, if you put Cary in SC it becomes that states largest city, and by a pretty good amount too. SC has weird annexation laws but still.

Dudley leaving is pretty interesting. His biggest value is going and watching hockey games in person to scout. That’s pretty much all he does as a person. That’s probably not going to happen this year so Dundon sees no value. I don’t blame him.

The N&O article someone posted in another thread stated that Dudley is a "jumper", he did his work here and now he's off to help another team turn things around. Sounds like that was the plan all along anyways.

I've only been to Hartford once, but it left me with the impression that it's been in a tailspin for a long time. The main thing I remember was having a completely packed car and worrying that somebody was going to break into it. This was in the city, not the suburbs - it sounds like things are a little nicer outside of the urban core. I can't speak intelligently on what ails the city or how to fix it, but I hope they can turn things around.

They are. Friend of mine lives in Farmington and states this is true. Hartford FWIW was facing bankruptcy not that long ago but I don't think they ever actually filed.

Honestly I think they'd do just as well as in Charlotte...lots of college kids can't afford to go to Canes games, but they could absolutely afford an AHL game. If there was an AHL team while I was @ State, I'd have had season tickets or at least a hefty mini-plan (too much schoolwork to make all the games). Just like while Atlanta has failed to hold their NHL teams, I think AHL could absolutely thrive there (and why I don't understand why Houston lost their team and hasn't been replaced). And I get what @bleedgreen is saying, it's kind of like what happened in Greensboro when the Monarchs got ousted for the Canes, the Generals just never quite caught on the same and there's still resentment about hockey there. I remember when they tried to draw on the Whaler market with the "Connecticut Whale" rebranding...I don't believe it went over too particularly well (kinda like some people freak out when the Canes do Whalers, but way way worse).

There was not a lot of enthusiasm for that name. Why I don't know, but I remember some folks on the AHL section here at HF expressed their discontent with the change.
 

MinJaBen

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The thing about this is, you really can't judge a city based on sole population alone because the raw numbers don't tell the whole story. Jacksonville (FL) is a good example of this, largest city in the state but nowhere near the size of Orlando, Miami, or Tampa/St Pete in metro numbers. Hell even Cary isn't that much smaller than Salt Lake City (the actual city), and they've got the NBA and MLS.



I was just thinking about this. The only NHL-only state is Nevada, and that is now no more now with the Raiders in town. Maybe the Canes should try Myrtle Beach and give those Palmetto Staters something to root for besides college students playing pigskin :sarcasm:



No joke, if you put Cary in SC it becomes that states largest city, and by a pretty good amount too. SC has weird annexation laws but still.



The N&O article someone posted in another thread stated that Dudley is a "jumper", he did his work here and now he's off to help another team turn things around. Sounds like that was the plan all along anyways.



They are. Friend of mine lives in Farmington and states this is true. Hartford FWIW was facing bankruptcy not that long ago but I don't think they ever actually filed.



There was not a lot of enthusiasm for that name. Why I don't know, but I remember some folks on the AHL section here at HF expressed their discontent with the change.
Holy “Getting-all-your-replies-in-at-once” Batman!
 

Joe McGrath

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Oct 29, 2009
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This was posted on the History board. It's so pretty I just had to share it.


View attachment 352152


On defense, that's Gary Suter (#20), Kevin Hatcher (#4), and Mike Modano (#9).

They're getting absolutely wrecked by Joe Sakic, Wayne Gretzky, and... Rob Zamuner

That could have been me at the age I was at the time (I’m guessing 12 or 13) and I could have admirably filled in for Mr. Zamuner there.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Aug 30, 2010
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You can’t take the pro team away and have them put the Rangers minor league team in their place and expect it to do well in the early days. It had been made clear the league thought CT fans would have plenty of other teams to root for like the Rangers.....and then they literally put their minor league team there. I had left already but I would’ve had nothing but the middle finger for that. To this day I’ve gone to see two games with my nephews.

They already proved they had fans in the first place. Not that I think they’re getting a team back, or that they should get a team back. Just don’t see what you’re saying as relevant for that market.
I remember the story of the first Faniversary the Whalers Booster Club holds every year where they had a door raffle. One of the prizes was a pair of tickets to a Pack playoff game. The guy who won them got the tickets, pulled out a Bic lighter and proceeded to burn them while being cheered enthusiastically by all in the room. I'd have rather seen the HCC bulldozed to the ground than host a rags farm team.

As for Connecticut today: The state has essentially been committing suicide for the past 30 years, begining with that horse's ass Lowell Weicker instituting a state income tax that destroyed the competitive advantage that allowed it to be the most wealthy state in the union at the time.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Aug 30, 2010
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Dudley leaving is pretty interesting. His biggest value is going and watching hockey games in person to scout. That’s pretty much all he does as a person. That’s probably not going to happen this year so Dundon sees no value. I don’t blame him.
Wonder if there's an NHL team near where he lives that he could work for?
 

Surrounded By Ahos

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Imagine being Wayne Gretzky and having your Olympic gold crusade thwarted by some Czech bois.
Ya just love to see it. The best of the best going up against each other, knowing only one can come out on top. I really hope we get to see NHL players at the olympics again soon.

gretzky-hasek-1998.jpg
 
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